Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

[Western Eccentric]

if Hu Yi Dao is lv35, then Miao Renfeng would be around lv40 at end of XSFH , Hu Fei around the same level with Miao Renfeng.
Young Hu Fei (in young fox novel) is about lv20

Why they ranks so low..

[WuxiaMaster]

Why they ranks so low..

I am not too familiar with XSFH series, but I believe it took place in Qing Dynasty, which is when all the imba skills/chars are gone.

By existing benchmark, the "peak of wulin" (i.e "The Greats") of Qing Dynasty is around LV35 to LV40 (think Ao Bai, Chen Jing Nan, Lord Hong), which I think is about right.

[Western Eccentric]

Woww that's mean someone at Zhou Zhiruo or Wang Chuyi level can "dominating" wulin if they lived in this era..
Then what about Jiunan how strong she is

[WuxiaMaster]

Yes... IMO, someone like LOCH QZ Elder (Qiu Chu Ji) would be ~peak of Wulin during Qing era (same as Jiunan).

That is the feel I get looking at the strongest characters in Lu Ding Ji.

[a_tumiwa]

yes , lv35 for Qing era is considered top tier, when lv40 is already best of the best.
Miao Renfeng is the strongest in FHWZ (young fox novel) and , both he and Hu Fei were on-par and the strongest in XSFH

Miao Renfeng (XSFH) - lv40
Miao Renfeng (FHWZ) - lv38
Miao Renfeng when fought Hu Yidao - lv35

Hu Fei (XSFH) - lv40
Hu Fei (end of FHWZ) - lv22
teen Hu Fei (early FHWZ, age 18) - lv20
kid Hu Fei (age 14) - ??

[Western Eccentric]

I wonder why martial art decline so drastically at this era (i.e Qing Dynasty) and when martial art "decline" started Mid-Ming Late-Ming or Early-Qing era..

[Ken Cheng]

Say...how did we conclude that Yeung Hong got as high as level 26? Based on what I've heard about his skills, he probably didn't get past Level 16 at best.

[Western Eccentric]

If I'am not wrong he's stronger than GJ when they 1st meet and at PBI he kills 2 of 7 Freaks (definitely of sneak attack) so at least he's as strong as Zhu Cong (the 2nd Freaks) IMHO which a bit weaker than Ken Zhe E..

[WuxiaMaster]

Say...how did we conclude that Yeung Hong got as high as level 26? Based on what I've heard about his skills, he probably didn't get past Level 16 at best.

YK is stronger than GJ when they first met, and GJ is LV22 at that time. If I am not mistaken, GJ is already stronger than most of the 7 freaks after training with Ma Yu.

Also, YK trained under QCJ and even know a bit of Nine Yin Bone Claws... LV 16 might be under-estimating him too much.

[WuxiaMaster]

yes , lv35 for Qing era is considered top tier, when lv40 is already best of the best.
Miao Renfeng is the strongest in FHWZ (young fox novel) and , both he and Hu Fei were on-par and the strongest in XSFH

Miao Renfeng (XSFH) - lv40
Miao Renfeng (FHWZ) - lv38
Miao Renfeng when fought Hu Yidao - lv35

Hu Fei (XSFH) - lv40
Hu Fei (end of FHWZ) - lv22
teen Hu Fei (early FHWZ, age 18) - lv20
kid Hu Fei (age 14) - ??

Thanks for your insights. Will incorporate in the chart for next update.

[Western Eccentric]

Yoshh I also think YK level was quite "acceptable"..

[CancerLuna]

> LV 80: Feng Qing Yang (XA) - Speculation. Stronger than Ren Wo Xing. Lower limit LV75, upper limit unknown.

I dunno, I don't think his lower limit is at 75. If anything, we should put his lower limit slightly above RWX.

I wouldn't rate him at 80 since he didn't seem to be a once-in-a-generation talent like LHC.

(He mentioned this a few times while teaching LHC.)

> LV 75: Yang Guo - Pre 16 years, using Heavy Iron Sword.

YG should already be better than the Greats Pre 16 years. He cleared both QQR and GWM fairly easily when it was said YD would *barely* scrape by a victory against QQR.

I'd put him at 76 with GJ pre 16.

> LV 72: Qiu Qian Ren / Ci En (RO) - Both Pre & Post 16 Years.

I don't think QQR should be this low pre and post. YD was said to only be barely better than QQR. He also lasted an entire day against GWM in a life and death battle (GWM being 77 post 16 years).

At worst he should be 74.

> LV 72: Yellow Dressed Girl, Lady Yang (YT) - Speculation.
> LV 75: Guo Xiang (YT) – Speculation of highest level reached.

I think it'd be interesting to equalize these two. It's more likely YDL reached a higher level if we assume she had full 9YIN. (Maybe that's not a good assumption.)

> LV 70: Yang Ding Tian (YT) - Speculation. He defeated Du E 10 years prior to story.

Do we really think that warrants Lv 70? Du e is 1/3 of ZWJ at his peak and this is 10 years prior to the story.

> LV 65: Yue Bu Qun (XA) - After Learning Bixie

Rereading the fight between YBQ and ZLC as well as YBC vs LHC, YBC becomes increasingly unimpressive in my eyes.

There were instances of YBQ's arm numbing against LHC! Dunno, he seems much weaker than one Du Monk.

> LV 60: Huang Rong (RO) - Full Health, Non Pregnant State.

This is extremely high now that I think about it. I don't remember much about HR's feats in ROCH.

> LV 77: Jiu Mo Zhi (TL)

Is there a reason he's not paired at 80 along with XF?

[Western Eccentric]

> LV 80: Feng Qing Yang (XA) - Speculation. Stronger than Ren Wo Xing. Lower limit LV75, upper limit unknown.

I dunno, I don't think his lower limit is at 75. If anything, we should put his lower limit slightly above RWX.

I wouldn't rate him at 80 since he didn't seem to be a once-in-a-generation talent like LHC.

(He mentioned this a few times while teaching LHC.)

> LV 75: Yang Guo - Pre 16 years, using Heavy Iron Sword.

YG should already be better than the Greats Pre 16 years. He cleared both QQR and GWM fairly easily when it was said YD would *barely* scrape by a victory against QQR.

I'd put him at 76 with GJ pre 16.

> LV 72: Qiu Qian Ren / Ci En (RO) - Both Pre & Post 16 Years.

I don't think QQR should be this low pre and post. YD was said to only be barely better than QQR. He also lasted an entire day against GWM in a life and death battle (GWM being 77 post 16 years).

At worst he should be 74.

> LV 72: Yellow Dressed Girl, Lady Yang (YT) - Speculation.
> LV 75: Guo Xiang (YT) – Speculation of highest level reached.

I think it'd be interesting to equalize these two. It's more likely YDL reached a higher level if we assume she had full 9YIN. (Maybe that's not a good assumption.)

> LV 70: Yang Ding Tian (YT) - Speculation. He defeated Du E 10 years prior to story.

Do we really think that warrants Lv 70? Du e is 1/3 of ZWJ at his peak and this is 10 years prior to the story.

> LV 65: Yue Bu Qun (XA) - After Learning Bixie

Rereading the fight between YBQ and ZLC as well as YBC vs LHC, YBC becomes increasingly unimpressive in my eyes.

There were instances of YBQ's arm numbing against LHC! Dunno, he seems much weaker than one Du Monk.

> LV 60: Huang Rong (RO) - Full Health, Non Pregnant State.

This is extremely high now that I think about it. I don't remember much about HR's feats in ROCH.

> LV 77: Jiu Mo Zhi (TL)

Is there a reason he's not paired at 80 along with XF?

- Lv 74 Feng Qingyang - since he's only bested Ren Woxing in "swordplay skill" not as overall martial art also he came from sword faction which mean his internal strenght not as good as qi faction perhaps around Feng Boping at best

- Lv 74 HIS Yang Guo - I think he is still a bit weaker than Old Greats IMHO at least in internal departement plus he never fought a "truly greats" except Lao Wantong for 16 years later

Lv 72 Qiu Qianren - it's would be quite strange IMHO if he rank above LOCH Lao Wantong even in end ROCH

Lv 72 Guo Xiang - I highly doubt she is better than Lin Chaoying
Lv 68 Lady Yang - even with 9 Yin I never think she is at the same league with Wuji/Zhang Sanfeng
Lv 65 Yang Dingtian - it's true he defeat Du E 30 years prior the strory but we never know how strong Du E at that time

Lv 60 Yue Buqun - agree with you

Lv 58 Huang Rong - agree again since I never imagine she can defeat Gongsun Zhi even at her "peak"

Lv 80 Jiumozhi - agree again there is no reason he placed under Qiao Feng and Guo Jing

[WuxiaMaster]

> LV 80: Feng Qing Yang (XA) - Speculation. Stronger than Ren Wo Xing. Lower limit LV75, upper limit unknown.

I dunno, I don't think his lower limit is at 75. If anything, we should put his lower limit slightly above RWX.

I wouldn't rate him at 80 since he didn't seem to be a once-in-a-generation talent like LHC.

(He mentioned this a few times while teaching LHC.)

> LV 75: Yang Guo - Pre 16 years, using Heavy Iron Sword.

YG should already be better than the Greats Pre 16 years. He cleared both QQR and GWM fairly easily when it was said YD would *barely* scrape by a victory against QQR.

I'd put him at 76 with GJ pre 16.

> LV 72: Qiu Qian Ren / Ci En (RO) - Both Pre & Post 16 Years.

I don't think QQR should be this low pre and post. YD was said to only be barely better than QQR. He also lasted an entire day against GWM in a life and death battle (GWM being 77 post 16 years).

At worst he should be 74.

> LV 72: Yellow Dressed Girl, Lady Yang (YT) - Speculation.
> LV 75: Guo Xiang (YT) – Speculation of highest level reached.

I think it'd be interesting to equalize these two. It's more likely YDL reached a higher level if we assume she had full 9YIN. (Maybe that's not a good assumption.)

> LV 70: Yang Ding Tian (YT) - Speculation. He defeated Du E 10 years prior to story.

Do we really think that warrants Lv 70? Du e is 1/3 of ZWJ at his peak and this is 10 years prior to the story.

> LV 65: Yue Bu Qun (XA) - After Learning Bixie

Rereading the fight between YBQ and ZLC as well as YBC vs LHC, YBC becomes increasingly unimpressive in my eyes.

There were instances of YBQ's arm numbing against LHC! Dunno, he seems much weaker than one Du Monk.

> LV 60: Huang Rong (RO) - Full Health, Non Pregnant State.

This is extremely high now that I think about it. I don't remember much about HR's feats in ROCH.

> LV 77: Jiu Mo Zhi (TL)

Is there a reason he's not paired at 80 along with XF?

1. FQY is estimated at LV80 because of his presumed mastery of (or being very high LV in) DG9J. He commented that LHC would need to train for another 20 years before he can compete with the true greats of the world. LHC only trained for months in that art and he's already at almost 70! This is the main reason - FQY should be a league above LHC.

Side reasons: FQY is already critically acclaimed 30 years ago as a top martial arts talent, won the "full respect" from RWX and also highly praised by FZ/CX.

2. QQR performance has been debated numerous times.
Based on author narrative - We could rank Qiu Qian Ren 1 LV below the 4 Greats.
Based on actual performance - We could rank Qiu Qian Ren 5 to 8 LV below the 4 Greats.

And this chart tends to give more weightage to actual performance. No matter what Jinyong says, there is no way QQR is only 1LV below the 4 Greats. This will also address pre16 iron sword Yang Guo.

3. Guo Xiang - This is all speculation, but I guess people based it off her being exceptionally smart (like her mum/grandfather), and since she spent the later half of her life devoted to martial arts, she eventually attained the same LV.

4. YDT - Agree that he might be weaker at the time of his death.

5. YBQ - I think it's possible YBQ is weaker than ZLC (at LV64) actually.

6. HR - Agree, but it's hard to gauge HR lv. She only fought with LMC who is much weaker at LV48.

7. JMZ - Any reason to place them the same? I think the consensus is XF can definitely beat JMZ.

[Western Eccentric]

I never think Chong'er close to great-level (Lv 70) after he learn DG9S - technique wise he is - but not all aspect as "martial artist" futhermore he came from qi school so his internal art foundation must "stronger" than sword school (i.e Feng Qingyang) also like I recall before Ren Woxing only "impressed" with Feng Qingyang swordplay skill not his prowess as all-rounded "martial artist" same like Huang Laoxie which "weaker" than YG in palm skill but not as a "fighter"..

[CancerLuna]

1. FQY is estimated at LV80 because of his presumed mastery of (or being very high LV in) DG9J. He commented that LHC would need to train for another 20 years before he can compete with the true greats of the world. LHC only trained for months in that art and he's already at almost 70! This is the main reason - FQY should be a league above LHC.

CX mastered Taichi Sword too (Great Level MA) but I don't think he's at that level. LHC got to ~70 (true 70) after his energy sucking, in my opinion. That was the true shortcutting him to his peak level in the novel.

My point being, LHC probably reached his level way faster than the estimated 20 years FQY mentioned which means it's hard to extrapolate how strong FQY is.

Another datapoint, FQY was already feeling the effects of old age even at his arrival. Either way LHC was a supreme talent (almost photographic memory?) compared to FQY so it's really hard to tell where FQY relative to LHC.

I am mainly commenting on lower bound of FQY and at the same time not convinced FQY had internal on the same level as a Great's.

Side reasons: FQY is already critically acclaimed 30 years ago as a top martial arts talent, won the "full respect" from RWX and also highly praised by FZ/CX.

I remember RWX only acknowleding FQY having superior sword art but not necessarily superior to RWX himself hence my original though that his lower bound might just be slightly better than RWX.

2. QQR performance has been debated numerous times.
Based on author narrative - We could rank Qiu Qian Ren 1 LV below the 4 Greats.
Based on actual performance - We could rank Qiu Qian Ren 5 to 8 LV below the 4 Greats.

And this chart tends to give more weightage to actual performance. No matter what Jinyong says, there is no way QQR is only 1LV below the 4 Greats. This will also address pre16 iron sword Yang Guo.

What are these actual performances in ROCH that would put him at that level? As I remember, he only fought YG and GWM. His greatest 'feat' was lasting an entire day with GWM who is superior to the other Greats. Author intention/narrative would also push him to being only slightly worse than the Greats.

I'm not sure where the disparity lies.

3. Guo Xiang - This is all speculation, but I guess people based it off her being exceptionally smart (like her mum/grandfather), and since she spent the later half of her life devoted to martial arts, she eventually attained the same LV.

I agree with the speculation, my thought was the same should probably be extended to YDL (9yin/ Great+ level art mastery).

4. YDT - Agree that he might be weaker at the time of his death.

5. YBQ - I think it's possible YBQ is weaker than ZLC (at LV64) actually.

6. HR - Agree, but it's hard to gauge HR lv. She only fought with LMC who is much weaker at LV48.

Cool.

7. JMZ - Any reason to place them the same? I think the consensus is XF can definitely beat JMZ.

I think consensus is XF can definitely beat anyone near him in the list (MRB/XYS/JMZ) but they are still around the same level.

I think the main comparison is XF vs YTZ+MRF performance compared to JMZ vs 6 Dali Monks.

[a_tumiwa]

Feng Qingyang? or we can just remove that lower-limit description and avoid confusion , just kidding lolz

[Western Eccentric]

State of Divinity chapter 27 : The Three Fight..
“The third person that I admire is the top master of Huashan School at the moment,” Ren Woxing said.

This was really beyond Linghu Chong’s expectation. When Ren Woxing was talking to Yue Buqun before, he didn’t even give him any face. Who would’ve thought that inside his heart, Ren Woxing would actually admire Yue Buqun?

Madam Yue said, “You don’t need to say these false talks and ridicule people.”

Ren Woxing laughed. “Haha, Madam Yue, you thought that the person I was referring to was your husband? He... he lacks by a lot. The person I admire has a godly sword art. He’s Feng Qingyang. Mr. Feng’s sword art is much higher compared to me and I wouldn’t be able to reach that stage at all. I sincerely admire him.”

“Mr. Yue, is Mr. Feng still alive?” Fangzheng asked.

“Martial uncle Feng went into... into seclusion for tens of years already and we’ve never heard news of him ever since. If he’s still alive then that would be a big fortune for our school,” Yue Buqun said.

Ren Woxing laughed coldly. “Mr. Feng is from the sword branch and you’re from the qi branch. These two branches of sword and qi can’t co-exist together in the Huashan School. If Mr. Feng is still alive, why would it be so fortunate for you?”

Yue Buqun just stayed silent after he was reprimanded by Ren Woxing.

Linghu Chong had guessed before that Feng Qingyang was from the sword branch. When he heard what Ren Woxing said and how his master didn’t dispute it, he no longer doubted it. Ren Woxing laughed. “Don’t worry. Mr. Feng is a highly skilled person outside of Wulin. Do you think he still needs your Huashan School's leadership and would take over your throne?”

[WuxiaMaster]

1. Lower limit for FQY is because he ought to be at least 1 tier higher than LHC (with 20+ yrs mastery of DG9J compare to the months of LHC). On the other end, there are people who believe FQY to be even stronger/equal to DFBB (base on Jinyong commentary that DG9J > KHBD). Based on both pespectives, LV80 is a reasonable estimation.


2. QQR has the same problem as GLFW - their performance is way below what JY describe. Please don't read too much into "Yideng can only hope to win by half a stroke". I'll believe it when it happens on screen.


In LOCH, as early as at the beggar meet, GJ can already fight head on with QQR. This same GJ would have been destroyed relatively easily by OYF/HYS. At this point, JY even describe QQR as being half a tier higher (稍胜半筹) than GJ in power. That's ridiculous. This GJ is still far off from end LOCH GJ, and he's only half a tier below QQR?


When GLFW first appeared, he is also described as being on GJ LV. This prove to be super over-estimation as GJ took on GLFW + 3 Mongols Experts + 1000s of soldiers, and would have escaped unscathed if not for YG.

In summary, this chart should look at actual performance first. JY narrative is very inconsistent at times and should only be supporting evidence.

[Western Eccentric]

Default
1. Lower limit for FQY is because he ought to be at least 1 tier higher than LHC (with 20+ yrs mastery of DG9J compare to the months of LHC). On the other end, there are people who believe FQY to be even stronger/equal to DFBB (base on Jinyong commentary that DG9J > KHBD). Based on both pespectives, LV80 is a reasonable estimation.
....
- Well JY also say that Yiyang Zhi + Pre Heaven Art Skill > Hama Gong but there is not mean Yideng "stronger" than Ouyang Feng at actual fight..
It's true FQY DG9S was stronger than LHC DG9S but in the other hand LHC have more vastly internal strenght than FQY so combined with their internal and external skill I don't think FQY "long way above" LHC (i.e at DFBB level)

- As for QQR given his feats in ROCH he must at least at the same level with LOCH Lao Wantong