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Thread: Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

  1. #81
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    I think it's too presumptive of you to think that most in the forum would agree with you that BWM=ZBT.
    All I'm saying is, your bias of Jinlun Guoshi is blinding you from recognizing his real martial arts level. You obviously hate the guy and you have explained why.

    If you have the courtesy, please do not simply ignore my other points. Actually think about them and let me know your thoughts. I hate to just leave issues hanging and not reach a consensus/conclusion.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    All I'm saying is, your bias of Jinlun Guoshi is blinding you from recognizing his real martial arts level. You obviously hate the guy and you have explained why.
    His battle record sucks, I don't know why you keep ignoring it. The descriptions of BWM's awesome power is equivalent to the hyperbole that JY uses to describe Zhuo Bufan. Supposed great power is worth nothing if it's not backed up with great results. People like BWM, Zhuo Bufan to me are like 1st round NBA draft picks that have great athleticism/great fundamentals and end up averaging just 10-15 points per game or at best becoming NBA all-stars but not becoming superstars like Magic and Jordan.

  3. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    You don't agree that BWM was embarassed when he first met Yideng/ZBT/HYS but none of the greats has ever been placed in such a humliating postion by JY. It's pretty disgraceful that BWM has to resort to suicide and was still prevented from being able to sucesfully commit suicide. I don't get why you think that BWM=ZBT from 1 simple exchange, more than a few could handle ZBT from 1 exchange. BWM couldn't even beat young YG/XLN or GJ with help from others, while ZBT has been recognized as a superior martial artists by the other greats. Nothing suggests to me that BWM is equal to ZBT. It's really pointless to argue this further. I just don't believe that a guy who is meant to be equivalent to ZBT would have such a terrible win-loss record and so many humiliations.
    It's actually not exactly a humilating position. You get surrounded by 3 Greats, what can you do? GJ or YG put in that position certainly couldn't do anything.

    BWM and ZBT had more than one exchange. And the battle was stalemate throughout the whole time. It was a blast on BWM's part and dissolve on ZBT's part. And throughout the whole time, it was like this. And plz do REALIZE that GOLDEN Wheel Monk at this battle was fighting with confiedence(do you get why I said Golden instead of the usual Broken?) because he just newly mastered Dragon Elephant Prana Skill Level 10. So this was one of the 2 instances in the story that BWM did reasonable. And the 2 times that JLFW fought with confiedence were when JLFW newly appeared each period thinking that he is #1 in Mainland. But then the battles after the first one, BWM realizes that he is not the dominating person he thinks he is and therefore loses confiedence.

    Just as a side note: Yideng for sure would have lost to JLFW. Yideng was losing not in martial arts, but in the fact that his internal was depleting quickly while JLFW still had plenty of fuel left. In addition, there was the 2 eagles about 10 feet above JLFW's head constantly annoying him. So JLFW is reality was handling Yideng plus 2 annoying eagles. I know 2 eagles don't sound much, but in a fight between Greats, you have to eliminate all distractions and the 2 eagles that constantly want to attack JLFW were enough of a distraction.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  4. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    It's pretty disgraceful that BWM has to resort to suicide and was still prevented from being able to sucesfully commit suicide.
    Resorting to suicide in wulin is far better than having to live and suffer in the hands of your enemies.

    And unless his skills are far superior to ZBT, there are reasons why he cannot committ suicide. He wasn't using full force just to smash his skull into pieces, and partly he was depressed by GX's death. ZBT was extremely worried that he wasn't able to know more and learn about the godly Long Xiang Bo Re Gong, therefore he immediately prevented GWM from dying. It wasn't as though every move of GWM was stopped and controlled by ZBT, the way you put it. I believe in a longer fight, GWM can easily kill himself. How would he know that people who were after his life few minutes ago wanted to prevent him from killing himself?

    I don't get why you think that BWM=ZBT from 1 simple exchange, more than a few could handle ZBT from 1 exchange. BWM couldn't even beat young YG/XLN or GJ with help from others, while ZBT has been recognized as a superior martial artists by the other greats. Nothing suggests to me that BWM is equal to ZBT. It's really pointless to argue this further. I just don't believe that a guy who is meant to be equivalent to ZBT would have such a terrible win-loss record and so many humiliations.
    Underlined and bolded part= Haha

    1. You totally underestimate the power of Pure Heart of Jade Maiden Swordplay, you think it is like the 06 ROCH edition where two little kids are doing ballet and you see one flustered nanny grandpa trying to stop them.

    2. Reasons why he cannot defeat GJ on that day was because he was being careful. You've heard about some powerful hero whose name is known far and wide, and naturally, you have to defend yourself in a fight to see how good he truly is. As a wuxia reader, you should have read millions of stories about idiotic villains who think they are all so damn godly who got thrashed totally upside-down by a mere simple feat by the almighty godly protagonists. If he was to become arrogant and fight with all his might without caring about the consequences, just being reliant on his great power, he will not be that respected cunning villain many people have in mind.

    Didn't Leviathan started a thread about how GJ is a lousy character? That's why I consider him a staunch YG fan because from what I know, anti-GJ usually equals pro YG and vice versa.
    Blasphemy. Very untrue statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    All I'm saying is, your bias of Jinlun Guoshi is blinding you from recognizing his real martial arts level. You obviously hate the guy and you have explained why.

    If you have the courtesy, please do not simply ignore my other points. Actually think about them and let me know your thoughts. I hate to just leave issues hanging and not reach a consensus/conclusion.

    Which ones are you talking about? I seriously did not try to ignore your responses. I've joined in so many threads that it's kinda hard to keep track, especially when others jump in and I just see the newest response. Let me know which ones you think are important and I"ll jump in, at least by the next few days. You have to give me some time to come up with responses that are at least worth a glance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifian
    1. You totally underestimate the power of Pure Heart of Jade Maiden Swordplay, you think it is like the 06 ROCH edition where two little kids are doing ballet and you see .
    I've never seen any JY adaptation in full. The one I've seen the most of is the Andy Lau ROCH. I've seen bits of the 80's DGSD adapation and as a kid, I thought it was very good. The 80's TVB adaptations seemed to be pretty high in quality and I'll like to watch them if I could get copies of them. I've also seen parts of the 90's tvb ROCH/LOCH adaptations, taiwanese 90's SPW, and thought they were crap. It might be due to the fact that I saw those adaptations after I've started reading the actual novels. Ever since I"ve read JY novels, I haven't had much interest in any adaptation because the shows all seem to pale in comparison to the books. I would like to see a Little Li Flying Dagger show though since I"ve never watched a GL show.

  7. #87
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    His battle record sucks, I don't know why you keep ignoring it.
    Well, what exactly are we talking about? I am talking about the overall proficiency of the Jinlun Guoshi which I consider 50% theory and the other 50% goes to actual combat performance. Theoretically his power should exceed the Greats (the 2x description and all) but in actual combat he probably can't beat them. So overall I would place him around the same level as Zhou Botong, slightly better than Huang Yaoshi/Yideng.

    You are talking about 100% combat performance which I do not feel is fair when ranking a martial artist/fighter.

    The descriptions of BWM's awesome power is equivalent to the hyperbole that JY uses to describe Zhuo Bufan.
    Yeah, I agree we have to look at the actual combat performances. However looking at the past is not all that helpful when we have the PRESENT POST-16 YEARS, peak of whatever level Jinlun Guoshi. So why don't we stick with his new experiences after his power increased.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  8. #88
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    Which ones are you talking about? I seriously did not try to ignore your responses. I've joined in so many threads that it's kinda hard to keep track, especially when others jump in and I just see the newest response. Let me know which ones you think are important and I"ll jump in, at least by the next few days. You have to give me some time to come up with responses that are at least worth a glance.
    In one of your latest replies to me, you quoted only one quote from my post which contained many other points. I'm sure you did see the post. First is post #75 and also #79.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    LV 78: Yang Guo (RO) - Post 16 Years
    LV 76: Guo Jing (RO)
    LV 76: Zhou Botong (RO)
    LV 76: Golden Wheel Monk (RO) - Post 16 Years

    Level 75

    1) East Heretic - Huang Yao Shi (RO)
    2) South Emperor – Yideng (RO)

    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Accurate? No? About the fight between Yang Guo and Zhou Botong, I think it's quite hard to infer Zhou Botong actual abilities because he's never serious. (Serious as in wanting to kill someone)

    He's always trying to "beg the guy" to show him more of his skills instead of using his left/right technique and kong ming quan etc to kill him...

  10. #90
    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    DGKB had a soft sword he used before getting heavy sword. sword god zhuo buofan used a soft sword. was there a link? DGKB's flexible sword of the purle rose should be equal to sword god zhuo buofan's level i think.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

  11. #91
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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster
    --

    Accurate? No? About the fight between Yang Guo and Zhou Botong, I think it's quite hard to infer Zhou Botong actual abilities because he's never serious. (Serious as in wanting to kill someone)
    More accurate than before. Even though I personally feel that GJ is a bit better than ZBT, but I don't have something to refer to to prove it, so I can't really say anything about that.

    I personally think ZBT was trying in martial arts. Just because you aren't fueled by anger, it doesn't mean that you can't find at your full potential. ZBT used Demon Subdueing Fist+Vacant Fist with Ambidexterity. So I think ZBT was trying as hard as he could, especially when he wanted to force YG's other 13 Melancholic Sad Palm stances out. I don't see any reason to hold back.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    In one of your latest replies to me, you quoted only one quote from my post which contained many other points. I'm sure you did see the post. First is post #75 and also #79.
    Ok, it's my fault then. I thought you were talking about posts from other threads. I"m just too lazy to keep pasting multiple quotation marks. I know it'll be better to do responses neatly like you do but it takes too much work sometimes. Sometimes, I find it easire to get the general gist of my argument across because it takes a lot more work to reponse in detail for every point like you. Also, there are some things you seem to believe in so strongly that I don't think that's any point in presenting an alternate point of view. I'll go back tomorrow, or the next few days to respond more specifically to your points because I'm kinda tired now. I wouldn't want you to feel that you wasted your time in making those posts.

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    for wuxiamaster:

    My feel:
    I feel there should be a level 85 included because XF and LQS are clearly not at the same level.
    1. LQS once maxxed out her palm energy to 50 feet. XF trying at his best, maxxed out to 40 feet. Just from this, it should show that LQS has a considerably stronger internal than XF. Along with her, WYZ and TSTL should also move up with LQS.
    2. SPT should be at a higher level because he has reached the "ideal formlessness" in style. The ultimate formlessness of internal, palm, leg, fist, etc. Plus, his internal got even higher (I estimate the original internal was around Greats Level because of similiarties to 9 Yang) after mastering Ode of Gallantary.
    3. Ok, even though I can't say anything about FQY because I never saw him in combat, but I personally feel that he is about Fangzhang's level due to the fact that he still relies on weapons.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    for wuxiamaster:

    My feel:
    I feel there should be a level 85 included because XF and LQS are clearly not at the same level.
    1. LQS once maxxed out her palm energy to 50 feet. XF trying at his best, maxxed out to 40 feet. Just from this, it should show that LQS has a considerably stronger internal than XF. Along with her, WYZ and TSTL should also move up with LQS.
    2. SPT should be at a higher level because he has reached the "ideal formlessness" in style. The ultimate formlessness of internal, palm, leg, fist, etc. Plus, his internal got even higher (I estimate the original internal was around Greats Level because of similiarties to 9 Yang) after mastering Ode of Gallantary.
    3. Ok, even though I can't say anything about FQY because I never saw him in combat, but I personally feel that he is about Fangzhang's level due to the fact that he still relies on weapons.
    Thanks for the suggestion and I've made a LV85. I always thought LQS is at max same as XZ since XZ took in all the 3 of their internal strength which is liike 200 years...

    I don't know if this is in the original novel, but I believe in Xiao Ao JIang Hu, RWX said something like he only respect 2 and a half man or something. (Or was it 3 and a half?) The first is DFBB and the 2nd is FQY (These 2 who can definitely beat him), and he could probably fight to a draw with FZ.
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 08-26-06 at 02:20 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster

    I don't know if this is in the original novel, but I believe in Xiao Ao JIang Hu, RWX said something like he only respect 2 and a half man or something. (Or was it 3 and a half?) The first is DFBB and the 2nd is FQY (These 2 who can definitely beat him), and he could probably fight to a draw with FZ.
    It's 3.5
    RWX repected DFBB the most.
    1. DFBB (respect him the most because of his intelligence)
    2. Fang zhang (RWX think his YJJ is incomparable. Plus the fact that he is benevolent)
    3. Feng Qing Yang (RWX admitt that his sword skill is inferior)
    3.5 Chong Xu (RWX respected him half way. RWX felt his Taichi sword is strong. However, RWX wasn't impressed by the fact that Chongxu doesn't know how to teach disciples and that Wuang so far doesn't have any other talent)
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    I thought XZ would be more powerful than XF if he finally got to using full of his skills, but well..

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    Much more accurate, at least for the top tiers.

    As a note, you left out Long Lord and Mu Lord of Gallant island. They are the masters of Li Si and Zhang San. I can't say for sure where they are, but most say they are a little inferior to the Greats.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifian
    I thought XZ would be more powerful than XF if he finally got to using full of his skills, but well..
    Well, wuxiamaster did say that with the ability at the end of DGSD. XZ in theory should thrash XF, but that is not the case because XZ SEVERLY lacks experience and like DY, he hates fighting. So I'm pretty flexible with XZ being in either 80 or 85. I don't mind.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  19. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    It's 3.5
    3.5 Chong Xu (RWX respected him half way. RWX felt his Taichi sword is strong. However, RWX wasn't impressed by the fact that Chongxu doesn't know how to teach disciples and that Wuang so far doesn't have any other talent)
    3.8 after CX resigned to LHC. Or was that just adaption?
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    you're right, RWX respected him to .7 or .8 after resigning.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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