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Thread: Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

  1. #1181
    Senior Member CancerLuna's Avatar
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    1. Lower limit for FQY is because he ought to be at least 1 tier higher than LHC (with 20+ yrs mastery of DG9J compare to the months of LHC). On the other end, there are people who believe FQY to be even stronger/equal to DFBB (base on Jinyong commentary that DG9J > KHBD). Based on both pespectives, LV80 is a reasonable estimation.
    1. LHC is a way faster learner than FQY so it's hard to extrapolate how much stronger FQY is.
    2. LHC had energy sucking skill which propelled him way up so it's hard to tell if FQY's internal is higher/lower.

    2. QQR has the same problem as GLFW - their performance is way below what JY describe. Please don't read too much into "Yideng can only hope to win by half a stroke". I'll believe it when it happens on screen.

    In LOCH, as early as at the beggar meet, GJ can already fight head on with QQR. This same GJ would have been destroyed relatively easily by OYF/HYS. At this point, JY even describe QQR as being half a tier higher (稍胜半筹) than GJ in power. That's ridiculous. This GJ is still far off from end LOCH GJ, and he's only half a tier below QQR?
    Ignoring the massive author intention part QQR, okay. But he already has a "feat" that puts him right below the Greats.

    That is lasting an entire day with GWM. Even YD was quickly running out of steam against GWM. If he was really at 72, the fight wouldn't have taken a day.

    When GLFW first appeared, he is also described as being on GJ LV. This prove to be super over-estimation as GJ took on GLFW + 3 Mongols Experts + 1000s of soldiers, and would have escaped unscathed if not for YG.

    In summary, this chart should look at actual performance first. JY narrative is very inconsistent at times and should only be supporting evidence.
    Maybe, maybe not. XLN was able to handle multiple warriors "better" than herself with L/R + Jade Maiden. GJ having L/R technique makes his 1vX abilities extremely high. It doesn't mean GJ would necessarily be able to 1v1 GWM.

    L/R technique is just really strong when it comes to 1vX...

  2. #1182
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    Some changes based on recent discussions:

    Add chars from Snowy Fox novels:

    LV 40: Hu Fei (XSFH)
    LV 40: Miao Ren Feng (XSFH)
    LV 35: Miao Ren Feng (XSFH) – When he fought Hu Yi Dao
    LV 22: Hu Fei (FHWZ) – End of FHWZ

    Changes:
    - Drop Huang Rong from LV60 to LV55
    - Drop Yang Ding Tian from LV70 to LV65
    - Drop Yue Bu Qun (Post Bixie) from LV65 to LV62

  3. #1183
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    Ummmmph I think Lv 55 too low for HR and Lv 62 too high for Mr Yue..
    Lv 58 HR
    Cheng Kun (pre blind)
    GSZ
    Xuan Ming Duo
    Lv 60 YBQ

  4. #1184
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    I've some issues with the ranking list, especially Z3F and DFBB.

    Z3F seems to be extremely overrated. Living to 100 yrs and "cultivating" his martial arts doesn't mean anything. Not to forget that martial arts level during that era has already deteriorate quite a bit. He's probably around the level of a end-LOCH Great at best. Perhaps even pre-LOCH Great.

    As for DFBB, during that era, there's nothing to draw comparison to with heroes from the earlier novels.

    JY likes to use fancy words to describe speed, he uses the same style of description to hint at how fast XLN and HYS is.
    For all we know, even the greats of that novel including LHC are weaker than pre-LOCH Greats.

    XLN's level is too high as well.

  5. #1185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsman83 View Post
    I've some issues with the ranking list, especially Z3F and DFBB.

    Z3F seems to be extremely overrated. Living to 100 yrs and "cultivating" his martial arts doesn't mean anything. Not to forget that martial arts level during that era has already deteriorate quite a bit. He's probably around the level of a end-LOCH Great at best. Perhaps even pre-LOCH Great.

    As for DFBB, during that era, there's nothing to draw comparison to with heroes from the earlier novels.

    JY likes to use fancy words to describe speed, he uses the same style of description to hint at how fast XLN and HYS is.
    For all we know, even the greats of that novel including LHC are weaker than pre-LOCH Greats.

    XLN's level is too high as well.
    - Well if you ask Me I would give Z3F Lv 78 instead of Lv 77 and dropping Wuji from Lv 77 to 76..
    - As for XLN she's not "overrating" in the battle at Chongyang Palace she "almost" defeat Jinlun Guoshi in 1 vs 1 fight and We all know Jinlun ~ Greats (at least in terms of internal strenght) even hold her own vs Jinlun + 3 Mongolian Warriors + 5 QZ Masters (thans to ZBT L/R Skill)

  6. #1186
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    XLN basically answered above.

    For DFBB, we only need to answer 2 questions:
    1. Do you think RWX is at LOCH Great?
    2. If the answer to Q1 is yes, then how strong would one need to be, to be able gain a definite upper hand (and win) 1v3 against 3 LOCH Greats? (actually, I would go even further to say 'toy around with 3 LOCH Greats', but some might disagree so let's not even bring in that)
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 11-02-18 at 11:54 AM.

  7. #1187
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    Quote Originally Posted by CancerLuna View Post
    Ignoring the massive author intention part QQR, okay. But he already has a "feat" that puts him right below the Greats.


    That is lasting an entire day with GWM. Even YD was quickly running out of steam against GWM. If he was really at 72, the fight wouldn't have taken a day.
    The problem is that fight didn't happen "on screen", so we have no idea the exact circumstances that went down. It's like the first Mt Hua Duel where the Greats were said to have fought for 7 days and nights. Did they really fight non stop for that long? I doubt it.

    If we were to take the "lasting 1 day" literally, then QQR would be even stronger than YD, because YD was definitely going to lose to GWM in another couple hundred exchange. Their fight would have lasted like maybe 1hr? 2hrs?

    The 1 day fight could have involved lot of chasing, hiding, skirmishes, etc... there is just no way to know. QQR has extraordinary qingong, so there could have been a lot of hit/run involved.

    And I don't think any 2 persons can literally exchange blows non stop for 24 hours.

  8. #1188
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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster View Post
    XLN basically answered above.

    For DFBB, we only need to answer 2 questions:
    1. Do you think RWX is at LOCH Great?
    2. If the answer to Q1 is yes, then how strong would one need to be, to be able gain a definite upper hand (and win) 1v3 against 3 LOCH Greats? (actually, I would go even further to say 'toy around with 3 LOCH Greats', but some might disagree so let's not even bring in that)
    1. Yes RWX more or less is around LOCH Greats but not for XWT and "non-health" LHC so it's not like DFBB vs 3 LOCH Greats but DFBB vs 2 LOCH Greats
    2. I believe someone with "demonic speed" can "play around" with someone which even stronger than him (i.e Bat King vs Mijue or YG vs Huodu) and good at 1 vs XXX fight not always mean also good at 1 vs 1 fight so though DFBB might be "win" against RWX + LHC + XWT it's not mean he/she also can win against XF/GJ at 1 on 1 fight same like XLN who can handle Jinlun + Mongol Warriors + QZ Masters not mean she also can handle ROCH Greats on 1 vs 1 fight

  9. #1189
    Senior Member CancerLuna's Avatar
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    Z3F seems to be extremely overrated. Living to 100 yrs and "cultivating" his martial arts doesn't mean anything. Not to forget that martial arts level during that era has already deteriorate quite a bit. He's probably around the level of a end-LOCH Great at best. Perhaps even pre-LOCH Great.
    Ignoring how strong his combat prowess was (probably worse than ZBT given he's 100.), his martial arts level should be around the Greats level. ZWJ ~= Z3F ~= GJ/YG.

    If the answer to Q1 is yes, then how strong would one need to be, to be able gain a definite upper hand (and win) 1v3 against 3 LOCH Greats? (actually, I would go even further to say 'toy around with 3 LOCH Greats', but some might disagree so let's not even bring in that)
    We keep mentioning he was toying with 3 but he didn't perform "at his level" when just 1v1ing LHC. (Multiple stances were exchanged.) I think we all like to think of the DFBB scenario as some JOKER card level scenario but there was ingloriousness there too.

    The problem is that fight didn't happen "on screen", so we have no idea the exact circumstances that went down. It's like the first Mt Hua Duel where the Greats were said to have fought for 7 days and nights. Did they really fight non stop for that long? I doubt it.
    Sure, but it would be unwise to just assume QQR was running the whole time... Reading into it, JY made sure to intend QQR ~= GWM (I don't know how to interpret author intention any other way.)

    If we were to take the "lasting 1 day" literally, then QQR would be even stronger than YD, because YD was definitely going to lose to GWM in another couple hundred exchange. Their fight would have lasted like maybe 1hr? 2hrs?

    The 1 day fight could have involved lot of chasing, hiding, skirmishes, etc... there is just no way to know. QQR has extraordinary qingong, so there could have been a lot of hit/run involved.

    And I don't think any 2 persons can literally exchange blows non stop for 24 hours.
    It's probably somewhere in the middle. Either way, QQR being so low despite multiple author-intended indicating parity as well as GWM ~= QQR is enough (for me) to put him 1 level below the rest of the Greats and wouldn't necessarily conflict with any other rankings.

    We do the same with some rankings by the way (accounting for author intention), e.g. WCY.

    LV 80: Wang Chong Yang (LO) – It is logically impossible for him to be at this LV at the time of his death. He is placed here because it is always the Author Intention for him to be 1 tier above the 4 Greats at all point of time.
    Given massive author intention, QQR should always be 1 level below the older Greats.

    and

    LV 77: Zhang Wu Ji (YT) - He frequently performed below this LV in the novel.
    In my mind, ZWJ has never performed at the level worthy of 77. I don't think ZWJ has what it takes to beat QQR either and ZWJ is at 77 whereas QQR is at 72!

    At the very least, QQR loses to some heavy plot-armored folks (GJ (hero), YG (hero), GWM (Main villian)) at his tier.

    ZWJ's strongest opponents were 1/3 his level and lets not even mention his loss to the persian folks *_*.

    2. I believe someone with "demonic speed" can "play around" with someone which even stronger than him (i.e Bat King vs Mijue or YG vs Huodu) and good at 1 vs XXX fight not always mean also good at 1 vs 1 fight so though DFBB might be "win" against RWX + LHC + XWT it's not mean he/she also can win against XF/GJ at 1 on 1 fight same like XLN who can handle Jinlun + Mongol Warriors + QZ Masters not mean she also can handle ROCH Greats on 1 vs 1 fight
    Completely agree with this.

  10. #1190
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    Ummmmh some minor change in the latest update but overall I "agree" with this rank except for several characters..
    Good job

  11. #1191
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    Just a random aside, on screen fights between Greats almost always (annoyingly) end in a draw regardless of scenario.

    The only way to be Great+ level it seems is to be off screen.

    If you're on screen against a Great, you're gonna barely win and some luck would have happened on your end.
    Last edited by tape; 11-04-18 at 12:20 AM.

  12. #1192
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    I think we consider putting a "demonic speed" attribute which makes a character exceptionally good at 1vX scenario. This could solve some disprecrency. Still, I'm not sure how much we can reduce DFBB LV by. 1v1, he will still crush RWX/LHC easily. Unless we drop RWX from LV70, DFBB position would not be easily shaken.

    That also gave me an idea that several chars have an immense difference in their techniques and internal power lv. We should state this to help explain/alleviate some of the weird battle outcomes.

    Specifically. XF (LV80) losing to MRF (LV60) + YTZ (LV60). Now, YTZ reads as:

    LV 60: You Tan Zhi (TL) – Internal at LV80. Held by back weak combat ability and techniques.

    1v1, his fighting capability is only LV60 and loses easily to XF. However, teaming up with MRF makes up for the technique portion and he is able to fully utilize his YJJ internal power to pressure XF. I have done this for few chars such as JLFW, DY, XZ.

    On top of that, I've added a couple of minor chars and break down others that were previously grouped together.

    LV 55: Su Xing He (TL)
    LV 35: Peng Lian Hu (LO)

    4 Vicious Evil (TL)
    LV 42: Ye Er Niang (TL)
    LV 40: Yue Lao San (TL)
    LV 36: Yun Zhong He (TL)

    Murong Fu’s 4 Servants
    LV 45: #1, Deng Bai Chuan (TL)
    LV 44: #2, Gong Zhi Qian (TL)
    LV 35: #3 Bao Bu Tong (TL)
    LV 32: #4, Feng Bo E (TL)

    I think we are missing a lot of minor characters that plays a decent role in the story so feel free to suggest!
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 11-16-18 at 08:31 AM.

  13. #1193
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    How about YTZ vs Xuanci from which seem YTZ can "beat" Xuanci so I put YTZ at Lv 68..
    As for 2nd Evil I think Lv 42 too high for her also for 3rd Evil Lv 40 too high so I pick them
    Lv 40 Ye Erniang
    Lv 38 Yue Laoshan (which I think he's as strong as Tian Baoguang at best)
    Blank about MRF gangs but it's quite strange to pick Gongye Qian and Deng Baochuan at Lv 44-45 since they seem not much better than DZC and DZC only at Lv 45 IMHO

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    i think xuanci and ytz didnt really fight, they only clash palm before being stopped by the arrival of xiao feng? and no one got hurt.
    so they didnt really fight.
    so if they really fight until end, i dont know who would be the winner

  15. #1195
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    Yeeeep they only exchange palm which Xuanci looks "inferior" that's why the crowd (Beggar member) force him to use XL18Z instead of Xingxiu skills..

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    Quote Originally Posted by a_tumiwa View Post
    i think xuanci and ytz didnt really fight, they only clash palm before being stopped by the arrival of xiao feng? and no one got hurt.
    so they didnt really fight.
    so if they really fight until end, i dont know who would be the winner
    When at Wudang Yang Xiao/Wei Yixiao not really "fight" with XM Elders they only exchange palm which Yang/Wei was "loose" and people think XM Elders stronger than YX so the same theory would be applied in YTZ vs Xuanci😉😉😉😉

  17. #1197
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    just realize you put TSTL rank higher than wuyazi, although TSTL is more senior or became elder sister, the rule of xiaoyao sect is that the leader is the strongest one right?
    and if you use his cripple state, than his power level should be far lower than that, he wont be stronger than LQS at this condition

  18. #1198
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    Quote Originally Posted by a_tumiwa View Post
    just realize you put TSTL rank higher than wuyazi, although TSTL is more senior or became elder sister, the rule of xiaoyao sect is that the leader is the strongest one right?
    and if you use his cripple state, than his power level should be far lower than that, he wont be stronger than LQS at this condition

    Actually that ranking is for TSTL at her strongest point (before reversion). The fact that LQS had to wait for the opportune moment (when TSTL revert to child) before seeking revenge is good indication that TSTL is stronger than her. Even at the final fight (with TSTL crippled), their internal were still on par.


    As for WYZ it is mostly conjecture on my part. I ranked them according to their seniority in Xiaoyao sect.
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 03-05-19 at 07:29 AM.

  19. #1199
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    I still wonder how can Di Yun stronger than people like XF YG GJ or JMZ😶😶😶😶

  20. #1200
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    A lot depends on where you think Lian Cheng Jue lies, and there seems to be no evidence on which era the story occurs.

    However, from the description and its capability, it is not unreasonable to place 神照经 on the same tier as the greatest of all Jinyong arts (9Yin, 9Yang, YiJinJing etc...).

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