Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

[Western Eccentric]

Just for fun..
Lv 84 DFBB
Lv 82 XF (beserk mode)
End ROCH HIS YG (arguably)
Lv 80 MRB
XYS
GJ (end ROCH - arguably)
YG (end ROCH)
JMZ (I still believe he is better than JLFW)
Lv 79 Z3F (martial art wise he is might be the strongest in Trilogy after GJ/YG but limited by his old age)
Lv 78 JLFW (end ROCH)
ZBT (end ROCH)
Lv 77 GJ (pre 16 years)
Lv 76 HYS (end ROCH)
YD (end ROCH)
ZWJ (end HSDS)
Lv 75 H7Q (pre 16 years)
OYF (pre 16 years)
Lv 74 YG (pre 16 years with HIS)
FQY (his swordmanship perhaps better than LHC but since he come from Huashan sword faction I don't think his internal at the same level as RWX or even ZLC)
Lv 72 FZ
Lv 70 GX (arguably)
LCY
Lord Long/Mu from Hero Island
QQR (end ROCH)
RWX
XLN (end ROCH)
Lv 68 LHC
Lady Yang

[Ken Cheng]

Was Yeung Gor ever seen using the Heavy Iron Sword again during post-16-year interlude? My impression is that for unknown reasons (probably because the damn thing was so heavy and awkward to carry), he gave up using it on any kind of regular basis some time during that interlude, opting for Sad Palms instead.

[CancerLuna]

1 big reason I am reluctant to place YG far ahead of GWM is that would it would mean YG is FARRR ahead of the original Greats.

Given his exchange with HYS/ZBT (albeit not life and death battle), are we ready to give YG that benefit of the doubt? GJ is only slightly ahead of the Greats (pre-16), does that mean YG is also far ahead of GJ? (the audacity!)



He is already 5 LV ahead of the Greats at this ranking (the same diff as LOCH GJ vs LOCH Great), which I think significant enough. It would be more "reasonable" to attribute the final battle to GWM underperforming/taken by surprise/YG's extreme despair state, rather than YG being far ahead of GWM.

I think he actually is far ahead of the Greats. His exchanges with ZBT/HYS definitely were in the "lets check out our martial arts category", with major caveats to both fights.

ZBT getting noticeably tired, YG calling each Sad Palm out, YG trying not to "get serious" because he's afraid ZBT will die.
HYS basically "losing" the palm exchange and then neutralizing with a non-palm technique (sorry forgot the name).

I think YG's fight with GWM is a reasonable data point, but we can go in the reverse direction with GJ instead.

GJ's improvement rate should be higher or similar to ZBT (given he basically caught up by ROCH start).

Given that, GJ should at the very least be a souped up ZBT with no downsides (old age). Add in the classic built-in protagonist overperformance and GJ can safely be nestled near YG.

My original comment here wasn't to prop up YG though!, it was to show that DFBB could be leveled next to GJ/YG/XF. Put another way,

DFBB has one performance where based on his performance can be anywhere from Great to Great++ (lv 85).
YG also has one performance where based only on that performance should be ranked much higher. (e.g. more than 80)

Another thought to consider is what would've happened if we placed a bloodlusted YG in place of GWM against YD? How fast would he be able to close it out?

An alternative would be to rate post-Taiji ZWJ at LV75 instead to narrow the gap. I still feel that EOS ZWJ combat ability should have a significant gap with post-Taiji ZWJ. Aside from the broader skillset, he been through battles at pagoda, against the holy envoys, against the du monks and many other skirmishes. Surely he is much more proficient and adaptable during combat.

Reasonable.

That would place YG even higher.

I think YG really is that damn strong in a solo fight. He's the only Great that got exposed to Great++ type martial arts.

Because the list emphasizes 1:1, it may make YG seem like the better martial artist than say GJ but GJ is overall more well-rounded IMO.
1v1 YG ~= GJ
1vX YG <<<<<< GJ

I think Zhang San Feng himself thought he never quite reached GJ's LV (specifically stated). That said, GJ might be even stronger post-ROCH?

I feel like that's just classic humble speech. Z3F commented on Internal with GJ~YG~Z3F~ZWJ and his Taichi/Wudang arts are definitely at Great level.
Maybe I'm just thinking someone as decorated as Z3F should be around WCY's level...

That said GJ probably kept leveling up post-ROCH given his Internal Base, at least until he hit the old age cancelling out martial arts phase.

Was Yeung Gor ever seen using the Heavy Iron Sword again during post-16-year interlude? My impression is that for unknown reasons (probably because the damn thing was so heavy and awkward to carry), he gave up using it on any kind of regular basis some time during that interlude, opting for Sad Palms instead.

Nope, that thing was a Joker card anyways. I think the official reason why he didn't bring it to the final fight was because he wanted to perform Jade Maiden with XLN...
I don't blame him, given what he saw of GWM pre 16 years and his own improvement rate, he probably thought it'd be a cakewalk stomp.

-

LV 62: Divine Condor, Shen Diao (RO)

Is the condor really this "weak"? It's been a long time since I've read the novel but given comments from ZBT and the fact that it was a sparring partner for YG tells me it should be stronger. Definitely hard to place though...


LV 60: Zhang Wu Ji (YT) - Upon mastering 9YangShenGong (after Qiankun Bag). Internal at LV80.
LV 58: Guo Jing (LO) - After enlightened by Great Dipper during Begger's Meet.

Do we think GJ can't win against ZWJ here? At this stage didn't ZWJ have like almost zero external arts to fight with?

[Western Eccentric]

Was Yeung Gor ever seen using the Heavy Iron Sword again during post-16-year interlude? My impression is that for unknown reasons (probably because the damn thing was so heavy and awkward to carry), he gave up using it on any kind of regular basis some time during that interlude, opting for Sad Palms instead.

I never read ROCH 3rd edition but in 2nd edition he "thrown" HIS at Passionless Valley after the death of Indian Monk (YD junior) and never back to take it again but a few chapter later in final fight against JLFW he regret he not bring HIS dunno which wrong here perhaps Jin Yong forget his previous chapter about HIS so I think if We considered YG thought about HIS was "true" he might be stronger with HIS since HIS not "ordinary sword"..
Just IMHO 😁😁😁😁

[Ken Cheng]

I never read ROCH 3rd edition but in 2nd edition he "thrown" HIS at Passionless Valley after the death of Indian Monk (YD junior) and never back to take it again but a few chapter later in final fight against JLFW he regret he not bring HIS dunno which wrong here perhaps Jin Yong forget his previous chapter about HIS so I think if We considered YG thought about HIS was "true" he might be stronger with HIS since HIS not "ordinary sword"..
Just IMHO 😁😁😁😁

I'm of the opinion that *any* Greats-level fighter is going to be stronger armed with the Heavy Iron Sword than he/she is without it. It's not like having and using it is going to put the user at a *disadvantage*, after all.

[Western Eccentric]

I'm of the opinion that *any* Greats-level fighter is going to be stronger armed with the Heavy Iron Sword than he/she is without it. It's not like having and using it is going to put the user at a *disadvantage*, after all.

Even with Dragon Sabre XX still couldn't win against Purple Dragon King and let's say Dragon Sabre ~ HIS in terms of "weight" but since XX not "adept" with Sabre/sword he not gain advantage at all at least only give him a bit "upper hand" not completely "win" so since the Greats also don't know about HIS theory/method I don't think they could use it "properly" like YG did and since Yu couldn't use it properly the sword is "useless"..

[Western Eccentric]

Greats with HIS would be same like Wuji with Dragon Palm (only mimicked without inner formula) or YG with DBS (before HR guide) they might be could "use" it but never be able for defeat opponets..

[WuxiaMaster]

Another thought to consider is what would've happened if we placed a bloodlusted YG in place of GWM against YD? How fast would he be able to close it out?

I think a 5 LV difference is a already a very significant gap (6 LV if YG is in extreme sadness). Think of YD as LOCH GJ and YG as LOCH Great. That's how "easily" YG can close out YD.

DFBB has one performance where based on his performance can be anywhere from Great to Great++ (lv 85).

IMO he can rank from LV80 to LV85. I believe moving him to say LV83 as the median would be a good choice?

I feel like that's just classic humble speech. Z3F commented on Internal with GJ~YG~Z3F~ZWJ and his Taichi/Wudang arts are definitely at Great level.
Maybe I'm just thinking someone as decorated as Z3F should be around WCY's level...

I think in terms of "martial arts knowledge", Z3F is definitely among the best in JY universe. In terms of combat ability, I am not quite sure if he is equivalent to GJ though.

Remember that GJ has the Great+ Internal of 9Yin compounding for his entire life by the time he met Z3F (or 40+ years by end ROCH). Z3F doesn't even have the complete version of 9Yang. His own 100 year internal is Great LV, but is it on the same tier as Great+ 9yin/9yang?

LV 62: Divine Condor, Shen Diao (RO)

Is the condor really this "weak"? It's been a long time since I've read the novel but given comments from ZBT and the fact that it was a sparring partner for YG tells me it should be stronger. Definitely hard to place though...

Not quite sure if I would call LV62 weak... that is essentially just 1 tier below LOCH Great (enough to thrash 90% of all characters in Condor Trilogy)

That said, I vaguely remember there being a paragraph saying YG was able to defeat the condor within a few blows after practicing for years against the sea torrents (during his 16 years training).

LV 60: Zhang Wu Ji (YT) - Upon mastering 9YangShenGong (after Qiankun Bag). Internal at LV80.
LV 58: Guo Jing (LO) - After enlightened by Great Dipper during Begger's Meet.

Do we think GJ can't win against ZWJ here? At this stage didn't ZWJ have like almost zero external arts to fight with?

ZWJ internal at this stage is insane (aka equivalent to end-ROCH GJ). GJ just made his "first step" into the realm of greatness.

Roughly, ZWJ = A+ Internal and D technique. GJ = B Internal and B+ technique.

[Western Eccentric]

I think a 5 LV difference is a already a very significant gap (6 LV if YG is in extreme sadness). Think of YD as LOCH GJ and YG as LOCH Great. That's how "easily" YG can close out YD.
....
Well I think Lv 80 is YG "default" level (Lv 82 on his sad mode) since he could "beat" JLFW (Lv 77) at that state within 200-300 moves while people like ZBT (Lv 77) perhaps need more "effort" with at least 500 moves to beat HYS/H7Q (Lv 75)..

[Heromyst]

I would like to propose that we raise the Divine Condor's level. Looking at his performance, he has done some pretty ridiculous things and hasn't shown any weaknesses at all. That exchange with Zhou Bo Tong states that they clashed strikes but the bird's wings went along the side of Zhou's arms which sounded like Zhou may have used a softer technique to receive it and deflect its power. The bird was immediately able to pull back and attack again.

One major reason that goes for Brother Condor to be moved up is his durability. I feel like he's extra durable and can take hits quite well. He brushes off arrows, Yang Guo's sword and spears with his wings and only suffers minimal damage from arrows hitting him for hours in the middle of an army and even then his performance didn't decline the least bit. He also is able to wrestle those giant snakes which are like larger mythical pythons and beat them with his blazing fast speed. I really can't see people outside of a great being able to do significant damage to him to lower his performance where as 1 hit from him hurts like a slightly less powerful Xuan Tie Jian.

[Western Eccentric]

I would like to propose that we raise the Divine Condor's level. Looking at his performance, he has done some pretty ridiculous things and hasn't shown any weaknesses at all. That exchange with Zhou Bo Tong states that they clashed strikes but the bird's wings went along the side of Zhou's arms which sounded like Zhou may have used a softer technique to receive it and deflect its power. The bird was immediately able to pull back and attack again.

One major reason that goes for Brother Condor to be moved up is his durability. I feel like he's extra durable and can take hits quite well. He brushes off arrows, Yang Guo's sword and spears with his wings and only suffers minimal damage from arrows hitting him for hours in the middle of an army and even then his performance didn't decline the least bit. He also is able to wrestle those giant snakes which are like larger mythical pythons and beat them with his blazing fast speed. I really can't see people outside of a great being able to do significant damage to him to lower his performance where as 1 hit from him hurts like a slightly less powerful Xuan Tie Jian.

Well but YG could "beat" him only in 3 moves with wooden sword which mean the Condor quite impossible rank "higher" (to Lv 65 maybe) since I don't think YG or GJ could beat people like LOCH GJ or DYQ in 3 moves..

[CancerLuna]

I think a 5 LV difference is a already a very significant gap (6 LV if YG is in extreme sadness). Think of YD as LOCH GJ and YG as LOCH Great. That's how "easily" YG can close out YD.

That's what I mean. YG doesn't need to move up but his strength is obviously much higher than the other Greats. Based on YG vs GWM vs Greats comparison. DFBB can be moved to 80 and his performance can match that (based on his short 1v1 with LHC which spanned 10+ stances).

How many stances would it take XF to subdue LHC? YG with HIS against LHC? etc, etc, I think most would subdue/toy with LHC with the same performance DFBB showed.

IMO he can rank from LV80 to LV85. I believe moving him to say LV83 as the median would be a good choice?

I think moving him down is a good idea in general but I'm of the opinion the DGSD/ROCH elites can match him (XYS/MRB/XF/YG/GJ).

I think in terms of "martial arts knowledge", Z3F is definitely among the best in JY universe. In terms of combat ability, I am not quite sure if he is equivalent to GJ though.

Remember that GJ has the Great+ Internal of 9Yin compounding for his entire life by the time he met Z3F (or 40+ years by end ROCH).

Z3F doesn't even have the complete version of 9Yang. His own 100 year internal is Great LV, but is it on the same tier as Great+ 9yin/9yang?

Yeah, we don't really see Z3F or GJ at their "primes" so it's all speculation.

Re: Internal, I think they're a match, at the very least Z3F says so himself.

Not quite sure if I would call LV62 weak... that is essentially just 1 tier below LOCH Great (enough to thrash 90% of all characters in Condor Trilogy)

That said, I vaguely remember there being a paragraph saying YG was able to defeat the condor within a few blows after practicing for years against the sea torrents (during his 16 years training).

I think there are quotes sliding either way but I remember ZBT even thinking the Condor was a worthy fight.

+ The Condor was able to spar with YG past YG's HIS state. I've forgotten the details of their training, etc but if we were to put HIS YG at Old Great Level (Pre 16), Condor should be at least around that strong.
Dunno, I don't remember exactly but my impression was Condor was around Pre16Great - YG EOS level. Someone more motivated than me should look up the relevant feats.

ZWJ internal at this stage is insane (aka equivalent to end-ROCH GJ). GJ just made his "first step" into the realm of greatness.

Roughly, ZWJ = A+ Internal and D technique. GJ = B Internal and B+ technique.

Yeah, it's Great level but I'm just questioning if the ZWJ here can even win. Unless you think his Internal alone is auto-win against GJ at this point.

YTZ, DY, XZ, etc always showed they were much much weaker than their internal allowed for given their combat/external skills and struggled against people with way lower internal so I'm not sure ZWJ can leverage his Internal here to win.

[a_tumiwa]

this is the part where ZBT exchange with Condor, only 1 clash

His mischievousness had angered the Divine Eagle. Suddenly the eagle swept at Zhou Botong with its wings. Zhou Botong saw the wings’ attack and said to himself: “Let me try this winged beast’s strength.” He exerted his energy and fended off with both hands. Crash! Two formidable forces collided. The old man was still standing and the eagle’s wings passed his side. The eagle was about to attack again when Yang Guo suddenly shouted, “Brother Eagle, don’t be rude! We are in the presence of a highly skilled senior.”

The eagle halted his attack and stood proudly still. “His strength is indeed formidable, no wonder he is so arrogant,” said the Old Urchin, laughing heartily.

so ZBT never thought the condor was a worthy fight, just praise its power after 1x exchange palms, zhou botong even didnt move an inch while eagle's wings passed his side, which means brother condor inner energy is lower than ZBT.
yeah they didnt really fight. not enough evidence to make the condor to have The Greats level

[Western Eccentric]

this is the part where ZBT exchange with Condor, only 1 clash



so ZBT never thought the condor was a worthy fight, just praise its power after 1x exchange palms, zhou botong even didnt move an inch while eagle's wings passed his side, which means brother condor inner energy is lower than ZBT.
yeah they didnt really fight. not enough evidence to make the condor to have The Greats level

1 wing vs 2 palm I think they are "equal" in internal strength..

[WuxiaMaster]

Yeah, it's Great level but I'm just questioning if the ZWJ here can even win. Unless you think his Internal alone is auto-win against GJ at this point.

LV58 (Guo Jing) vs LV60 (ZWJ) is still very close and definitely not auto win. I think it could go either way. Also, I believe ZWJ is not completely inexperienced. I remember he had some basic wudang skills? He also took on Mie Jue (it was basically auto win against Mie Jue)

...

On the Condor, I think LV62 is considered very high already for a freaking bird - it means that thing is able to go toe to toe against the likes of Du Monks, Zuo Leng Chan, Murong Fu, Dingchun Qiu and End-LOCH GJ. Powerful as it is, I don't think the bird can "easily win" against these guys.

[Western Eccentric]

Lv 83 for DFBB seems like Greats/Elites could "beat" him/her now😁😁😁😁

[Western Eccentric]

LV58 (Guo Jing) vs LV60 (ZWJ) is still very close and definitely not auto win. I think it could go either way. Also, I believe ZWJ is not completely inexperienced. I remember he had some basic wudang skills? He also took on Mie Jue (it was basically auto win against Mie Jue)

...

On the Condor, I think LV62 is considered very high already for a freaking bird - it means that thing is able to go toe to toe against the likes of Du Monks, Zuo Leng Chan, Murong Fu, Dingchun Qiu and End-LOCH GJ. Powerful as it is, I don't think the bird can "easily win" against these guys.

I think bro Condor would "auto win" agaisnt MRF and DCQ (no poison/trick) since he is YG "sparring partner" before YG reach semi wooden sword stage even he could "exchange palm" with ZBT..

[a_tumiwa]

i wont comment about YG and the condor practice together.

but please remove exchange palm with ZBT as comparison, the condor is lv 62 , ZBT lv 77, the condor's level is not that low, their level difference is only 15.
Xiao Feng once exchange palm with one of murong's subordinate , which only lv 42 , so their lv difference is very very huge. and they exchange palms more than once . that murong's subordinate can stand the first and second palm attack of xiao feng without injured , but that does not automatically qualify him as strong as xiao feng or a level below him.

ZBT and the condor only exchange palm once, they need to do more than once, or the result wont accurate enough . and even if they were comparable , it's only showing that their inner energy or strength were comparable, not actual fight.
what i mean that we cannot judge someone's actual combat level by only 1x exchange palm. there are many factors in the real fight.

[Western Eccentric]

i wont comment about YG and the condor practice together.

but please remove exchange palm with ZBT as comparison, the condor is lv 62 , ZBT lv 77, the condor's level is not that low, their level difference is only 15.
Xiao Feng once exchange palm with one of murong's subordinate , which only lv 42 , so their lv difference is very very huge. and they exchange palms more than once . that murong's subordinate can stand the first and second palm attack of xiao feng without injured , but that does not automatically qualify him as strong as xiao feng or a level below him.

ZBT and the condor only exchange palm once, they need to do more than once, or the result wont accurate enough . and even if they were comparable , it's only showing that their inner energy or strength were comparable, not actual fight.
what i mean that we cannot judge someone's actual combat level by only 1x exchange palm. there are many factors in the real fight.

Well Yu mean Gongye Qian which "trade palm" with XF well I doubt in that case is Gongye was "attack" XF first it's like XF whose attack/strike Gongye Qian first so is different with bro Condor vs ZBT though I agree with the other part about bro Condor real combat prowess but judging his strength alone he seems equal with Greats (i.e ZBT) even post 16 years JLFW "afraid" him..

[CancerLuna]

On the Condor, I think LV62 is considered very high already for a freaking bird - it means that thing is able to go toe to toe against the likes of Du Monks, Zuo Leng Chan, Murong Fu, Dingchun Qiu and End-LOCH GJ. Powerful as it is, I don't think the bird can "easily win" against these guys.

Why not, it's a legendary bird. In terms of "specialness", it's more special than Murong Fu lol. Legendary Bird > Random 30 year old jack of all trade.

so ZBT never thought the condor was a worthy fight, just praise its power after 1x exchange palms, zhou botong even didnt move an inch while eagle's wings passed his side, which means brother condor inner energy is lower than ZBT.
yeah they didnt really fight. not enough evidence to make the condor to have The Greats level

Definitely not enough evidence on its own but added with its spars with YG should be a good enough indicator.

Also replying to bolded, I'm not gonna say that "indicates parity" or anything but I don't interpret it the same way. For one, the bird is using wings, it's either going to "pass the side", "stand still" or "bounce back". "bounce back" is really the only thing indicating worse internal in my opinion.

The bird was probably not stronger than HIS YG but it seemed to be strong enough to spar with him for a while as YG was getting to grips with the art. HIS YG is definitely way stronger than an LOCH Great so I wouldn't find it strange this Bird is stronger than one du monk.