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Thread: How complete was Deun Yu's poison immunity?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default How complete was Deun Yu's poison immunity?

    After swallowing that special centipede and toad, Deun Yu gained immunity to all of the various poisons he was exposed to during the remainder of DGSD. He encountered a wide variety of poisons, each of which was unrelated to the others, so his immunity was widely-encompassing.

    Was it *all* encompassing, however? Did the centipede and toad provide him complete immunity to all poisons that could ever exist in the world? I wonder if his immunity would have been effective against the poisons that showed up later in the Jin Yong world (i.e. West Poison Au Yeung Fung's poisons, Passion Flower poison from ROCH, the poisons used by Wu Ching Ngau's wife in HSDS, the poisons that afflicted Ling Wu Chung in SOD, etc.).

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    Senior Member S Beaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    After swallowing that special centipede and toad, Deun Yu gained immunity to all of the various poisons he was exposed to during the remainder of DGSD. He encountered a wide variety of poisons, each of which was unrelated to the others, so his immunity was widely-encompassing.

    Was it *all* encompassing, however? Did the centipede and toad provide him complete immunity to all poisons that could ever exist in the world? I wonder if his immunity would have been effective against the poisons that showed up later in the Jin Yong world (i.e. West Poison Au Yeung Fung's poisons, Passion Flower poison from ROCH, the poisons used by Wu Ching Ngau's wife in HSDS, the poisons that afflicted Ling Wu Chung in SOD, etc.).
    well, the toad surely didn't help him resist the extra doses of "viagara"
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Beaver
    well, the toad surely didn't help him resist the extra doses of "viagara"
    It did work against Deun Yin Hing's aphrodisiac, however, which was probably several magnitudes more potent than Viagara.

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    Banned strife_au's Avatar
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    Maybe JY didn't think too far ahead on the aphrodisiac bit when he made DY immune to vicious poisons

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    Quote Originally Posted by strife_au
    Maybe JY didn't think too far ahead on the aphrodisiac bit when he made DY immune to vicious poisons
    On the contrary, I think Jin Yong gave Deun Yu the immunity promptly to protect him not only from lethal poisons, but a potentially ruinous case of "incest" with Muk Yeun Ching, whom everybody believed to be his sister at the time. Muk Yeun Ching was completely under the aphrodisiac's influence, so that left the immune Deun Yu to make sure nothing scandalous happened in that cave in which Chung Man Sau had trapped them.

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    Senior Member S Beaver's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    It did work against Deun Yin Hing's aphrodisiac, however, which was probably several magnitudes more potent than Viagara.
    i'm pretty sure the aphrodisiac affected MWQ just as much as it affected DY...
    though after some review, i realized the explanation given was aphrodisiac isn't a technically a "poison". so i guess duan yu's immunity is still pretty global
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by S Beaver
    i'm pretty sure the aphrodisiac affected MWQ just as much as it affected DY...
    though after some review, i realized the explanation given was aphrodisiac isn't a technically a "poison". so i guess duan yu's immunity is still pretty global
    Muk Yeun Ching was totally in the thrall of the aphrodisiac, but in DGSD '81 (not the greatest source of accuracy, I know), Deun Yu was completely unaffected by it...and the reason, apparently, was the centipede and toad in his system.

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    It did work against Deun Yin Hing's aphrodisiac, however, which was probably several magnitudes more potent than Viagara.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    On the contrary, I think Jin Yong gave Deun Yu the immunity promptly to protect him not only from lethal poisons, but a potentially ruinous case of "incest" with Muk Yeun Ching, whom everybody believed to be his sister at the time. Muk Yeun Ching was completely under the aphrodisiac's influence, so that left the immune Deun Yu to make sure nothing scandalous happened in that cave in which Chung Man Sau had trapped them.
    Quote Originally Posted by S Beaver
    i'm pretty sure the aphrodisiac affected MWQ just as much as it affected DY... though after some review, i realized the explanation given was aphrodisiac isn't a technically a "poison". so i guess duan yu's immunity is still pretty global
    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Muk Yeun Ching was totally in the thrall of the aphrodisiac, but in DGSD '81 (not the greatest source of accuracy, I know), Deun Yu was completely unaffected by it...and the reason, apparently, was the centipede and toad in his system.
    Corrections and clarifications below:

    ===

    Source: http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon...es/drugs_et_al

    Powder for the Harmonious Union of the Yin and the Yang, The [Yin1 Yang2 He2 He2 San3 阴阳和合散] - a very potent type of aphrodisiac. Not a type of poison; therefore, Duan Yu's immunity to poisons could not prevent him from succumbing to the effects of this drug (Chapter 7).

    (1) Effects on male users (Chapter 7):

    * A sudden upsurge of warmth in the abdomen, the dilation of blood vessels and an uncontrollable wave of passion.
    * Women appeared to be more attractive, leading to sexual arousal.
    * Red blood-shot eyes and flared nostrils; involuntary twitching of facial muscles.
    * Rising body temperatures, leading to the removal of as much clothing as possible.
    * Increased heart-rate.
    * Impaired reasoning abilities that favoured arguments for copulation.
    * Excessive perspiration (Chapter 8).

    (2) Effects on female users (Chapters 7-8):

    * Generally similar to the effects on men.
    * Hot flashes and restlessness, as well as red flushes on the face and neck.
    * Prolonged periods (more than 24 hours) without copulation could reduce female users to a semi-conscious state.

    Users (and/or victims) who did not follow through the ingestion of the drug with an act of copulation that re-balanced the yin and the yang would find their flesh splitting into cun-long (3.33 centimetres) bits, bleed from the seven orifices on each of their faces (i.e. both eyes, both ears, both nostrils and the mouth), and die. The aphrodisiac effects of the drug grew with each successive day, becoming virtually impossible to withstand from the eighth day on (Chapter 7).

    So potent that it could turn a well-mannered man into a lecher, and a chaste woman into a promiscuous one. Belonged to the Stranger in Black (Chapter 8). Duan Yu, who had unwittingly eaten food that was laced with the Powder for the Harmonious Union of the Yin and the Yang, eventually stripped down to a bare torso and a pair of shorts (Chapter 9).

    Could be expelled from the bodies of its users (and/or victims) without copulation if these individuals took some laxatives, and drank large amounts of cold water (Chapter 9).

    ===

    Source: http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon...people/duan_yu

    [Duan Yu] Became immune to all sorts of poison after ingesting the Poisonous Bovine Vermillion Toad; hence, was not affected by the Antiaris Toxicaria on Mu Wanqing's arrows that pierced his chest. ... Ingested the Powder for the Harmonious Union of the Yin and the Yang when he unwittingly ate some food that was laced with it. Willing to die -- either in self-afflicted suicide or assisted by another person -- so that the unblemished reputation of the Duan Family was not ruined by an incident of drug-induced incest with Mu (Chapter 7). Recovered from the effects of the Powder for the Harmonious Union of the Yin and the Yang by taking some laxatives and drinking large amounts of cold water (Chapter 9).

    ===

    btw, there's nothing particularly special about that centipede that Duan Yu swallowed. It was just "a large specimen about 7-8 cun (23.33-26.67 centimetres) in length; had red and black spots on its body" (Chapter 5).
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Fascinating information as always, oh Lord of Peach Blossom Island.

    That being the case, just how did Deun Yu and Muk Yeun Ching ultimately avoid the act of incest that wouldn't have been incest?

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    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    IIRC, plain water, but then this drug isnt hard to "cure".
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

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    Quote Originally Posted by AnhHung
    IIRC, plain water, but then this drug isnt hard to "cure".
    Did Deun Yin Hing and Chung Man Sau give Deun Yu and Muk Yeun Ching that much water to drink? They really should have known better.

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    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Did Deun Yin Hing and Chung Man Sau give Deun Yu and Muk Yeun Ching that much water to drink? They really should have known better.
    No, it was the schoolar and his brother. They dug a tunnel to rescue DY.

    An DGSD expert should verify that they used water to cure DY.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Fascinating information as always, oh Lord of Peach Blossom Island.
    It's been a while, but there are still people who think I'm the Lord of Peach Blossom Island. In case anyone's wondering, my distant relative who owned Peach Blossom Island was Huang Yaoshi 黄药师 Wong Yeuk Si, but my name is Huang Yushi 黄遇实 Wong Yu Sat.

    That being the case, just how did Deun Yu and Muk Yeun Ching ultimately avoid the act of incest that wouldn't have been incest?
    At the behest of Ba Tianshi and Fan Hua, Hua Hegen carried out the rescue of Duan Yu by way of a tunnel under the Valley of Ten Thousand Calamities all the way through to the stone hut (begun in Chapter 8, completed in Chapter 9); also involved 30 of his subordinates who were skilled in martial arts (Chapter 8).
    Source: (about Hua Hegen) http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon...gures/people#H

    TBH the full and complete translation of DGSD will take a long long time, so the availability of resources like the Facts and Figures DGSD [link: http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon...ts_and_figures] should not be left unused.
    Last edited by HuangYushi; 12-19-06 at 04:25 AM. Reason: Edited a link.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
    Soon ... SOON!

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    Banned strife_au's Avatar
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    Huang Yushi when are you going to be updating Xia Ke Xing again? it's been ages.

    Edit: NVM read your blog
    Last edited by strife_au; 12-18-06 at 10:33 AM.

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Did Deun Yin Hing and Chung Man Sau give Deun Yu and Muk Yeun Ching that much water to drink? They really should have known better.
    Quote Originally Posted by AnhHung
    No, it was the schoolar and his brother. They dug a tunnel to rescue DY.
    A bit more:

    1. Duan Yanqing and Zhong Wanchou did not give Duan Yu and Mu Wanqing so much water to drink that the effects of the drug wore off. Besides water, laxatives had to be included in the cure. Chapter 9 states that Duan Yu and Mu Wanqing recovered from the drug after they were taken out of the Valley of Ten Thousand Calamities (Zhong Wanchou's place) and given the laxatives and water. The person(s) who came up with the cure was(were) not identified.

    2. By the "schoolar", I assume you are referring to Zhu Danchen, one of the the four grand bodyguards of Dali. That is inaccurate. The tunnel was dug by Hua Hegen, the Minister of Education, at the suggestion of his brothers (2 of them), Fan Hua (the Minister of War) and Ba Tianshi (the Minister of Works). Hua Hegen, Fan Hua and Ba Tianshi were also called the "Three Dukes of Dali", individuals who often had very minor or totally inexistent roles in serial adaptations of DGSD.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
    Soon ... SOON!

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    duan yu may have been able to partially resist the sex drug but he was immune to all the poison skills of xing su sect.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    So revisiting this topic after some years...how effective do you reckon the toad and centipede would be against the poisons of West Poison Au Yeung Fung or the Passion Flower Poison? If Yeung Hong had the toad and centipede in his system when he hit Wong Yung's poisoned armored vest, would he still have died? If Yeung Gor had the toad and centipede in his system when he visited Passionless Valley, would the thorns of the Passion Flower had any effect on him?

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