Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

[a_tumiwa]

could someone provide list of all creators that their name mentioned?

- Dugu Qiubai, creator of 9-Dugu swordplay
- Damo , Shaolin Founder
- Murong Longcheng, creator of shifting north star
- Xiaoyao Zi, Founder of Xiaoyao Sect
- Ling Chaoying, ancient tomb sect
- Duan Siping , duan family ancestor --> i dont know what martial arts he created?
- Huang Shang , creator of jiu yin zhenjing
- Duyuan/Lin Yuantu , Bixie swordplay

who else?

[reydge]

Update with Sword Stained with Royal Blood characters V 1.0
LV 57: Mu Renqing (BXJ)
LV 57: Xia Xueyi (BXJ)
LV 49: Taoist Musang (BXJ)
LV 41: Gui Xinshu (BXJ)
LV 41: Huang Zhen (BXJ)
LV 40: Yuan Chengzhi (BXJ)
LV 39: Yuzhenzi (BXJ)
LV 37: An Jianqing (BXJ)
LV 34: He Tieshou (BXJ)
LV 30: Princess Changping(A'jiu) (BXJ)
LV 25: Five Wen Elders (BXJ)
LV 13: Xia Qingqing (BXJ)

after some opinion

Update with Sword Stained with Royal Blood characters V 2.0
LV 50: Mu Renqing (BXJ)
LV 50: Xia Xueyi (BXJ)
LV 37: Yuan Chengzhi (BXJ)
LV 36: Yuzhenzi (BXJ)
LV 35: An Jianqing (BXJ)
LV 35: Gui Xinshu (BXJ)
LV 33: Huang Zhen (BXJ)
LV 30: Gui Erniang (BXJ)
LV 30: He Tieshou (BXJ)
LV 30: Princess Changping(A'jiu) (BXJ)
LV 30: Taoist Musang (BXJ)
LV 20: Five Wen Elders (BXJ)
LV 13: Xia Qingqing (BXJ)

[a_tumiwa]

from 72 shaolin martial arts, how many did sweeper monk learn? all of them?

[Ken Cheng]

from 72 shaolin martial arts, how many did sweeper monk learn? all of them?

We don't know that the Janitor Monk even used Shaolin martial arts; he might have used something different altogether.

[WuxiaMaster]

Update with Sword Stained with Royal Blood characters
LV 57: Mu Renqing (BXJ)
LV 57: Xia Xueyi (BXJ)
LV 49: Taoist Musang (BXJ)
LV 41: Gui Xinshu (BXJ)
LV 41: Huang Zhen (BXJ)
LV 40: Yuan Chengzhi (BXJ)
LV 39: Yuzhenzi (BXJ)
LV 37: An Jianqing (BXJ)
LV 34: He Tieshou (BXJ)
LV 30: Princess Changping(A'jiu) (BXJ)
LV 25: Five Wen Elders (BXJ)
LV 13: Xia Qingqing (BXJ)

I will add these in the next update while giving some time for other people familiar with this novel to give their input. I am totally clueless about this story, so its accuracy will solely depend on you guys

[a_tumiwa]

I will add these in the next update while giving some time for other people familiar with this novel to give their input. I am totally clueless about this story, so its accuracy will solely depend on you guys

i am not an expert , but my opinion:

lv 41: Huang Zhen

he said that his martial arts is lower than his brother (even though he is the most senior one), so i think his level should be lower than Gui Xinshu or under lv 40 , probably below yuan chengzhi

lv 49: taoist musang
yuzhenzi seems does not afraid his martial brother at all, that means his level is not far behind, so i think lv 49 is too high for Musang.


i dont have problem with others

[reydge]

I will add these in the next update while giving some time for other people familiar with this novel to give their input. I am totally clueless about this story, so its accuracy will solely depend on you guys

I still want to know your opinion about the whole chart

i am not an expert , but my opinion:

lv 41: Huang Zhen

he said that his martial arts is lower than his brother (even though he is the most senior one), so i think his level should be lower than Gui Xinshu or under lv 40 , probably below yuan chengzhi

lv 49: taoist musang
yuzhenzi seems does not afraid his martial brother at all, that means his level is not far behind, so i think lv 49 is too high for Musang.


i dont have problem with others

About Huang zhen and about taoist musang
that is true and it is my fault
And I should fix the list and Compare it with LDJ (I really think we should change LDJ characters)
So I will update it very soon

[reydge]

OK
I'm here with a really huge update!!!
I fix the SSWRB Chart in my post and with that update I change TDAC chart

The Deer and the Cauldron
LV 40: Jiu Nan (LDJ)
LV 39: Gui Xinshu (LDJ)
LV 39: Hong An Tong (LDJ)
LV 39: He Tishou (LDJ)
LV 36: Hu Yizhi (LDJ)
LV 35: Chen Jin Nan (LDJ)
LV 35: Feng Xi Fan (LDJ)
LV 35: Huicong (LDJ)
LV 35: Chengguan (LDJ)
LV 34: Ao Bai (LDJ)
LV 32: Wu Liuqi (LDJ)
LV 32: Gui Erniang (LDJ)
LV 31: Xu Xueting (LDJ)
LV 30: Thin Monk (LDJ)
LV 30: Fat Monk (LDJ)
LV 30: Lu Gaoxuan (LDJ)
LV 30: Sangjie (LDJ)
LV 30: Gui Zhong (LDJ)
LV 29: Li Xihua (LDJ)
LV 28: Taoist Wugen (LDJ)
LV 27: Zhang Danyue (LDJ)
LV 26: Yin Jin (LDJ)
LV 25: Hai Dafu (LDJ) - Before Blinded
LV 25: Tao Hongying (LDJ)
LV 23: Mao Dongzhu (LDJ)
LV 23: Shi Lang (LDJ)
LV 22: Feng Jizhong (LDJ)
LV 21: Su Quan-Wei Xiao Bao's wife (LDJ)
LV 20: Xu Tianchuan (LDJ)
LV 19: Bai Hansong, Bai Hanfeng (LDJ)
LV 18: Guan Anji, Eighteen Arhats (LDJ)
LV 17: Taoist Xuanzhen (LDJ)
LV 16: Shuang'er-Wei Xiao Bao's wife (LDJ)
LV 16: Fan Gang, Li Lishi (LDJ)
LV 15: Mao Shiba (LDJ)
LV 15: Some of the weaker Green Wood Hall members (LDJ)
LV 8: Zeng Rou-Wei Xiao Bao's wife (LDJ)
LV 8: Zheng Keshuang (LDJ)
LV 7: Fang Yi, A’ke-Wei Xiao Bao's wives (LDJ)
LV 7: A’qi (LDJ)
LV 6: Mu Jianping-Wei Xiao Bao's wife (LDJ)

Sword Stained with Royal Blood
LV 50: Mu Renqing (BXJ)
LV 50: Xia Xueyi (BXJ)
LV 37: Yuan Chengzhi (BXJ)
LV 36: Yuzhenzi (BXJ)
LV 35: An Jianqing (BXJ)
LV 35: Gui Xinshu (BXJ)
LV 33: Huang Zhen (BXJ)
LV 30: Gui Erniang (BXJ)
LV 30: He Tieshou (BXJ)
LV 30: Princess Changping(A'jiu) (BXJ)
LV 30: Taoist Musang (BXJ)
LV 20: Five Wen Elders (BXJ)
LV 13: Xia Qingqing (BXJ)

and the chart after update

Legendary Level （武林神话）– Omnipotent, Invincible & Godlike.


Dugu Qiubai (RO / XAJH)
Sweeper Monk (TL)

Possible Candidates:
These are extremely speculative, distant background characters that do not appear directly in the Novels. They are added purely for fun and strictly speaking should not be considered in this chart.
- Damo Founder
- Creator of Kuihua Baodian
- Murong Longcheng
- Xiaoyao Zi, Founder of Xiaoyao Sect

Level 95 （登峰造极）– The pinnacle of martial arts and perfection!

LV 91: Shi Po Tian (XKX)
LV 90: Xu Zhu (TL) - U.P. = 60% P

LV 88: Tian Shan Tong Lao (TL) - She is stronger than Li Qiu Shui at full power.
LV 87: Li Qiu Shui (TL)
LV 86: Wu Ya Zi (TL)
LV 86: Duan Yu (TL) - U.P. = 30% P
LV 85: Dongfang Bu Bai (XA)

LV 84: Huang Shang, Creator of Jiuyin (LO) – Speculation.
LV 81: Guo Jing (RO) - Post 16 Years. Speculation.

Level 80 （绝世高手）- Only the strongest characters in all of Jinyong Novels reaches here.

LV 80: Xiao Feng (TL) - Skillset/Internal at LV75. His unmatched "fighting god" ability brings him to 80.

LV 80: Feng Qing Yang (XA) - Speculation. Stronger than Ren Wo Xing. Lower limit LV75, upper limit unknown.
LV 80: Lin Yuan Tu (XA) - Speculation. He can range from LV75 to LV85.

LV 79: Yang Guo (RO) - Without Heavy Iron Sword. [Happy State: -3LV, Sorrow State: +1LV]
LV 78: Murong Bo (TL)
LV 78: Xiao Yuan Shan (TL)

LV 77: Zhou Botong (RO) - Pre & Post 16 Years.
LV 77: Jinlun Fawang (RO) - Post 16 Years.
LV 77: Jiu Mo Zhi (TL)
LV 77: Zhang San Feng (YT) - Mainly due to his old age.

LV 77: Guo Jing (RO) - Pre 16 Years.
LV 76: Wang Chong Yang (LO)

Level 75 （绝顶高手）- The "4 Greats" Level.

LV 75: East Heretic, Huang Yao Shi (RO) - Pre & Post 16 Years.
LV 75: South Emperor, Yideng (RO) - Pre & Post 16 Years.
LV 75: West Venom, Ouyang Feng (RO)
LV 75: North Beggar, Hong Qi Gong (RO)

LV 75: Guo Xiang (YT) – Speculation of highest level reached.
LV 73: Yang Guo - Pre 16 years, using Heavy Iron Sword.

LV 72: Zhang Wu Ji (YT) - U.P. = 94% P
LV 72: Qiu Qian Ren / Ci En (RO) - Both Pre & Post 16 Years.
LV 72: Fang Zheng (XA)
LV 72: Lord Long/Mu of Xia Ke Island (XKX)
LV 72: Zhou Bo Tong (LO) - After he was "enlightened" by Guo Jing.
LV 72: Ouyang Feng (LO) - At 2nd Mt Hua after he becomes crazy.

Level 70 – The "Sub-Greats" or "LOCH Greats" Level

LV 70: East Heretic, Huang Yao Shi (LO)
LV 70: South Emperor, Yideng (LO)
LV 70: North Beggar, Hong Qi Gong (LO)

LV 70: Xiao Long Nu (RO) - At fight against Mongols and GWM - O.P. = 112% P
LV 70: Jinlun Fawang (RO) - Pre 16 years. His Internal is worthy of LV75.
LV 70: Ren Wo Xing (XA)

LV 70: Lin Chao Ying (LO) - At first Mount Hua. Speculation.
LV 70: Yang Ding Tian (YT) - Speculation. He defeated Du E 10 years prior to story.

LV 69: Ling Hu Chong (XA) - VS Sword-Using Opponents Only. LV60 VS Non Sword-Using Opponents - Master 10% of 9SOD
LV 68: Yellow Dressed Girl, Lady Yang

LV 67: Qiu Qian Ren (LO)
LV 66: Chong Xu (XA)
LV 66: Zhang Wu Ji (YT) - At battle against 6 righteous sects on Bright Peak - U.P. = 97% P

Level 65 – Upper tier Elites. Extremely powerful characters that rarely meet his match.

LV 65: Duan Zheng Ming (TL)
LV 65: Duan Yan Qing (TL)
LV 65: Reverend Huangmei (TL)
LV 65: Xuan Ci, Shaolin Abbot (TL)
LV 65: Yue Bu Qun (XA) - After Learning Bixie
LV 65: Zhang San / Li Si (XKX)
LV 65: Du E/Du Jie/Du Nan (YT) - Range From LV65 to LV62 (Strongest To Weakest)
LV 65: Guo Jing (LO) - At the end of LOCH.

LV 65: Zhou Bo Tong (LO) - Before he was "enlightened" by Guo Jing on Peach Blossom Island.

LV 64: Zuo Leng Chan (XA) – Before Blinded
LV 63: Huang Rong (RO) - At the end of ROCH
LV 63: Xiao Long Nu (RO) - After learning Left/Right Technique - At fight against Gongsun Chi - Post 16 Years

LV 62: Ding Chun Qiu (TL)
LV 62: Xiang Wen Tian (XA)
LV 62: Divine Condor, Shen Diao (RO)

Level 60 – Mid tier Elites. Considered top tier in General Wulin.

LV 60: Murong Fu (TL)
LV 60: You Tan Zhi (TL)
LV 60: Sword God Zhuo Bu Fan (TL)
LV 60: Cheng Kun (YT) – Before Blinded.
LV 60: Two Demons of Hejian, Bu Tai and Hao Mi (YT)
LV 60: Fang Sheng (XA)

LV 60: He Zu Dao (YT) – Estimation, dead before story.
LV 60: Zhang Wu Ji (YT) - Upon mastering 9Yang and leaving scheduled valley.
LV 60: Gongsun Chi (RO)

LV 58: Guo Jing (LO) - After enlightened by Great Dipper during Begger's Meet.
LV 58: Xie Yan Ke (XKX)
LV 57: Huang Rong (RO) - Full Health, Non Pregnant State , Pre 16 years

Level 55 – Lower tier Elites. Considered top tier in General Wulin.

LV 55: Yang Xiao (YT)
LV 55: Fan Yao (YT)
LV 55: Xuan Ming Elders (YT) – Their Xuan Ming poison palms, if connected, is particularly devastating [+10LV] against opponents without strong Yang energy to dissipate its effect.
LV 55: Kong Xiang (YT)
LV 55: Lin Ping Zhi (XAJH) - After learning Bixie but before blinded.
LV 55: Bai Zi Zai (XKX)

LV 54: Ah Da (YT)
LV 52: Ah Er (YT)
LV 51: Ah San (YT)

Level 50 – Upper tier experts in Jinyong Main Novels.

LV 50: Huang Rong (RO) - Not Full Health,Pregnant State
LV 50: White Eagle, Yin Tian Zheng (YT)
LV 50: Green Bat, Wei Yi Xiao (YT)
LV 50: Golden Lion, Xie Xun (YT)
LV 50: Mie Jue (YT) - Using the Heavenly Sword.
LV 50: Nimo Xing (RO)
LV 50: Yin Kexin (RO)
LV 50: Xiao Xiangzi (RO)
LV 50: Feng Bu Ping (XA)
LV 50: Bujie Monk (XA)
LV 50: Mu Renqing (BXJ)
LV 50: Xia Xueyi (BXJ)

Plum Manor, 4 Friends of JiangNan
LV 58: 1st Brother Huang Zhonggong (XA)
LV 55: 2nd Brother Hei Bai Zi (XA)
LV 42: 3rd Brother Tu Bi Weng (XA)
LV 40: 4th Brother Dan Qing Sheng (XA)

4 Divine Monks of Shaolin
LV 56: Kong Jian (YT), Strongest of 4 Divine Monks. Died to Xie Xun’s trickery.
LV 50: Kong Wen (YT), Abbot of Shaolin
LV 48: Kong Zhi (YT), Lost to White Eagle Guardian at Battle of Bright Peak.
LV 46: Kong Xing (YT), Practiced Dragon Claws Skill. Killed by Ah San.

LV 48: Ding Bu Si (XKX)
LV 48: Ding Bu San (XKX)
LV 48: Bei Hai Shi (XKX)

LV 46: Li Mo Chou (RO)
LV 46: Guo Jing (LO) - After learning from Zhou Botong at Peach Blossom Island.


Level 45 – Lower tier experts in Jinyong Main Novels.

LV 45: Purple Dragon, Zi Sha Long Wang / Jin Hua Popo (YT)
LV 45: Duan Zheng Chun (TL)
LV 45: Ying Gu (RO)
LV 45: Shi Qing (XKX)
LV 45: Min Rou (XKX)
LV 45: Bai Wan Jian (XKX)
LV 45: Quanzhen 2nd Gen Elders (RO) - Range From Qiu Chu Ji (LV50), Ma Yu, Wang Chu Yi to Sun Bu Er (LV36)
LV 45: Mei Chaofeng (LO) – Blinded, at battle against QZ 7 Priests

LV 45: Xiao Long Nu (RO) - Before Learning Left-Right Technique

LV 44: Mo Da (XA)

LV 42: Wudang 7 Swordmen (YT) - Strongest Yu Lian Zhou/Song Yuan Qiao (LV46) to Weakest Mo Shenggu (LV38). Wudang 3rd Swordmen is cripple and excluded.
LV 42: Yue Bu Qun (XA) – Pre Bixie Swordplay
LV 42: Ouyang Ke (LO) - Before crippled.
LV 42: Feng Mo Feng (RO) - Crippled
LV 42: Daerba (RO) - At Martial Art meet
LV 42: Yang Guo (RO) - Before losing his arm.

Level 40 – Seasoned pugilists and leaders of small sects

LV 40: The 4 Evils (TL) - Ye Er Niang, Yue Lao San, Yun Zhong He
LV 40: Murong Fu 4 Followers (TL)
LV 40: Dali 4 Servants (TL)
LV 40: Yideng Disciples (RO) - Range from Zhu Zi Liu (LV48), Diancang Yuyin (LV42), Wu Santong (LV40)
LV 40: Huo Du (RO) – At Marital Art Meet
LV 40: Yelu Qi (RO) - Post 16 years
LV 40: Zhou Zhi Ruo (YT) - After learning Jiu Yin Bai Gu Zhua
LV 40: He Tai Chong, Kunlun Leader (YT)
LV 40: Ren Ying Ying (XA)
LV 40: 10 Elders of Sun Moon Cult (XA)
LV 40: Liu Zheng Feng, Tianmen Dao Ren (XA)
LV 40: Qu Yang (XA)
LV 40: Taogu 6 Immortals (XA)
LV 40: Qiu Chu Ji, Ma Yu, Wang Chu Yi (LO) - LV41,40,39 respectively.
LV 40: Ying Gu (LO)

LV 40: Guo Jing (LO) - Right after learning full set of 18 Dragon Palms

LV 40: Jiu Nan (LDJ)
LV 39: Gui Xinshu (LDJ)
LV 39: Hong An Tong (LDJ)
LV 39: He Tishou (LDJ)
LV 37: Yuan Chengzhi (BXJ)
LV 36: Yuzhenzi (BXJ)
LV 36: Yu Cang Hai (XA)
LV 36: Mu Gao Feng (XA)
LV 36: Ding Yi, Ding Xian (XA)
LV 36: Hu Yizhi (LDJ)

Level 35 – Seasoned Pugilist. Medicore in Song Dynasty, Top Tier in Qing Dynasty

1) All the other 2nd generation Quanzhen Disciples (LO)
2) Chen Jin Nan (LDJ)
3) Feng Xi Fan (LDJ)
4) Hu Yi Dao (XSFH)
5) Miao Fan Tian (XSFH)
6) Tian Bo Guang (XA)
7) Zhong Wan Chou (TL)

LV 35: An Jianqing (BXJ)
LV 35: Gui Xinshu (BXJ)
LV 35: Ning Zhong Ze (XA), Yue Bu Qun's wife.
LV 35: Huicong (LDJ)
LV 35: Chengguan (LDJ)

LV 34: Ao Bai (LDJ)
LV 34: Guo Jing (LO) - After Hong Qi Gong taught him 15 Dragon Palms.
LV 33: Huang Zhen (BXJ)
LV 32: Huang Rong (LO) - After first meeting with Hong Qi Gong (learnt Xiaoyao Fists)

LV 32: Wu Liuqi (LDJ)
LV 32: Gui Erniang (LDJ)
LV 32: Lingzhi Shangren (LO)
LV 32: Liang Ziweng (LO)
LV 32: Lu You Jiao (RO)
LV 32: Lao De Nuo (XA)
LV 31: Xu Xueting (LDJ)

Level 30 - Weak in Song Dynasty, Elite in Qing Dynasty

LV 30: Gui Erniang (BXJ)
LV 30: He Tieshou (BXJ)
LV 30: Princess Changping(A'jiu) (BXJ)
LV 30: Taoist Musang (BXJ)
LV 30: Sha Tong Tian (LO)
LV 30: Thin Monk (LDJ)
LV 30: Fat Monk (LDJ)
LV 30: Lu Gaoxuan (LDJ)
LV 30: Sangjie (LDJ)
LV 30: Gui Zhong (LDJ)
LV 29: Yue Ling Shan (XA)- After learning secret arts in Mt Hua Cave.
LV 29: Li Xihua (LDJ)

LV 28: Yelu Qi (RO) - Pre 16 Years
LV 28: Taoist Wugen (LDJ)

LV 27: Zhang Danyue (LDJ)
LV 26: Song Qing Shu (YT)
LV 26: Yang Kang (LO)
LV 26: Yin Jin (LDJ)

Level 25 - Weak in Song Dynasty, Strong in Qing Dynasty. Most of Jinyong Heroes Starts Their Wulin Journey Here.

LV 25: Cheng Ying (RO) - Pre 16 Years
LV 25: Guo Fu, Wu Brothers (RO) - Post 16 years.
LV 25: Yang Guo (RO) - When he first left Ancient Tomb (Before Mt. Hua)
LV 25: Sha Gu (LO)
LV 25: Hai Dafu (LDJ) - Before Blinded
LV 25: Tao Hongying (LDJ)
LV 25: Ah Zi (TL)
LV 25: Most of Duan Zheng Chun's wives (TL) - Qin Hong Mian, Dao Bai Feng
LV 25: Ling Hu Chong (XA) - At start of novel
LV 25: Yin Su Su (YT)
LV 25: Zhao Min, Zhu'er (YT)
LV 23: Ke Zhen E (LO)
LV 23: Mao Dongzhu (LDJ)
LV 23: Shi Lang (LDJ)

LV 22: Guo Jing, Huang Rong (LO) - When they first met each other
LV 22: Feng Jizhong (LDJ)
LV 21: Su Quan-Wei Xiao Bao's wife (LDJ)

Level 20 - Trash Tier. Very Weak in Song Dynasty, Mediocre in Qing Dynasty

LV 20: Five Wen Elders (BXJ)
LV 20: Ma Guang Zuo (RO)
LV 20: Lu Wu Shuang (RO) - Pre 16 Years
LV 20: Xu Tianchuan (LDJ)
LV 19: Bai Hansong, Bai Hanfeng (LDJ)
LV 18: Guan Anji, Eighteen Arhats (LDJ)
LV 17: Taoist Xuanzhen (LDJ)
LV 16: Shuang'er-Wei Xiao Bao's wife (LDJ)
LV 16: Fan Gang, Li Lishi (LDJ)
LV 12-16: 7 Freaks of JiangNan (LO) - Except Ke Zhen E


Level 15 - Can take on a handful of trained soldiers/underlings.

LV 15: Zhao ZhiJing, Zhen Zhibing (RO)
LV 15: Mao Shiba (LDJ)
LV 15: Some of the weaker Green Wood Hall members (LDJ)
LV 15: Lin Zhen Nan (XA)
LV 15: Mu Nian Ci (LO)
LV 15: Ah Zhu (TL)
LV 15: Mu Wan Qing (TL)
LV 13: Yue Ling Shan (XA) - Before learning secret arts in Mt Hua Cave.
LV 13: Xia Qingqing (BXJ)

Level 10 - Have the most basic of martial arts. Can take on a few soldiers.

LV 10: Zhong Ling (TL)

LV 10: Guo Fu, Wu Brothers (RO) - Pre 16 years.

LV 8: Huanghe 4 Ghosts (LO)
LV 8: Yang Tie Xin (LO), Guo Xiao Tian (LO)
LV 8: Lin Ping Zhi (XA) - Pre Bixie.
LV 8: Zeng Rou-Wei Xiao Bao's wife (LDJ)
LV 8: Zheng Keshuang (LDJ)
LV 7: Fang Yi, A’ke-Wei Xiao Bao's wives (LDJ)
LV 7: A’qi (LDJ)
LV 6: Mu Jianping-Wei Xiao Bao's wife (LDJ)

Level 5 - Disciples, Followers, Underlings, Soldiers

Majority of unimportant sect disciples, followers, underlings (小喽啰) will fall in here.

LV 3: Possible characters include Xu Zhu (TL), Yi Lin (XA) at start of novel
LV 2: Armed Guard / Soldier
LV 1: Possible characters include Duan Yu (TL) at start of novel


Special Category - Formations & Teamwork

Xiao Long Nu (LV45) + Yang Guo (LV42) = LV75 [玉女素心剑法 Jade Maiden Swordplay]
7 LOCH Quanzhen Disciples (LV35-41) = LV70 [天罡北斗阵 Big Dipper Formation]
3 Du Monks (LV62 – LV65) = LV75 [金刚伏魔圈: Telepathic and Buddhism Power]

7 Wudang Heroes (LV38-LV46) = LV90 [真武七截阵] - Speculation

U.P.=Under Performance
O.P.=Over Performance

Dugu Qiubai
Let's think about this
He lived between DGSD era and LOCH era(1108-1211)
That means,he showed up him self after ending of DGSD and died at least 30 or 40 years before first mount hua tournament
And in this period of time,he was number 1 in the world
In this period we have DY,XZ,HS and even Sweeper Monk
Also we know that his rivals even could not forced him to defend
And do not forget about 9SOD one of the most advanced and maybe the most advanced skill in entire JY universe.
The skill that made LHC from zero to hero in a few months while LHC even did not master 15% of it and had inner power problem.
With this discribe and Jin Yong's description I even can imagin that DQ could trashed (DY,XZ=more powerful than DGSD),HS and at least = Sweeper Monk

Yang Guo
Who says that YG in the fight against GWM was always in happy state?
After GWM's strike,he was in the most sad moment in his life because
He thought that:I find XLN after 16 years and a while later I should left her again but this time for ever

Zhang Wu Ji
He has two problem
1.underperformance in the fight
2. trouble with unorthodox skills
we can put him in level 77 but he have U.P. this mater send him in to level 72
But we must not forget this matter that he really has trouble with those person
so I will not surprise if he defeat by a level 65 fighter with 9YWBC

[tape]

Just took a quick read through, but the Mongolian mercenaries in ROCH are stronger than even Qiu Chuji, so I don't think they can possibly be rated 5 levels under people like Yang Xiao/Fan Yao who I think are more or less Qiu Chuji level.

The brief fight between Ni Moxing and Golden Wheel Monk where he shoots a boulder at him repeatedly is very impressive and is something I don't think anyone under a Du Monk can replicate. But then again Yang Guo completely destroys him with a redirected hairpin...

I'd still rank Ni Moxing (probably the strongest of the mercenaries pre-crippling) above all the Ming Sect people and probably equal to the Xuan Ming elders, who I think are a solid 3-4 levels above Yang Xiao/Fan Yao. Fan Yao has admitted that even with a bunch of distractions in his favor he'd eventually lose to He Biweng.

[a_tumiwa]

@reydge: so where is wei xiaobao? at lv.1?

[CancerLuna]

I will leave out the 'feat description' evidences and focus only on the level gaps. IMO, we derive Shi Po Tian largely from extrapolation of Zhang San/Li Si tier.

The general Wulin level is the most stable/highest density group and largely refer to leaders of various sects and seasoned pugilists; and they are almost always around the LV40 range. (e.g think 2nd generation QZ disciples in LOCH, 5 mountain sect leaders ex ZLC in XAJH, various head figures of 6 big sects in HSDS, etc) Take a look at the characters in LV40 and you'll get the idea. They are like the "strongest of the scrubs".

So in the novel, we have 2 characters (Zhang San/Li Si) who are powerful enough to eliminate entire sects easily by themselves (by announcing their arrival beforehand). Think about how strong these 2 would have to be.

Also in Mainland Wulin, the strongest known character is Xie Yan Ke, who is at least a notch or two above everyone else (including leaders of the leading sects). However, even he would turn tail when he heard of Zhang San/Li Si.

You thought Zhang San/Li Si would be at the top of the chain, but guess what? They are just 2 disciples of Lord Long/Mu.

How strong would the 2 Island Masters have to be then? It's not far-fetch to place them at around Great Levels.

And finally we have Shi Po Tian, who was able to take down both of them at the same time with complete ease. How strong does one have to be to destroy 2 LOCH Greats?

>> The general Wulin level is the most stable/highest density group and largely refer to leaders of various sects and seasoned pugilists; and they are almost always around the LV40 range. (e.g think 2nd generation QZ disciples in LOCH, 5 mountain sect leaders ex ZLC in XAJH, various head figures of 6 big sects in HSDS, etc) Take a look at the characters in LV40 and you'll get the idea. They are like the "strongest of the scrubs".

>> So in the novel, we have 2 characters (Zhang San/Li Si) who are powerful enough to eliminate entire sects easily by themselves (by announcing their arrival beforehand). Think about how strong these 2 would have to be.

I'm not so convinced this is enough to put them 'super high up' the charts. I dunno, even some like YX seems like he'd be able to go to that era and dominate.
I'm just thinking, being able to dominate Wulin in a potentially weak era against (*scrubs*) is that great a feat.

>> Also in Mainland Wulin, the strongest known character is Xie Yan Ke, who is at least a notch or two above everyone else (including leaders of the leading sects). However, even he would turn tail when he heard of Zhang San/Li Si.

Same here, if ZWJ/ZSF/etc didn't show up, even someone like XX would be fearsome. How many levels if ZWJ higher than a du monk? He has 3x energy, is he 3x their level? *Dunno*

My reasoning here isn't very clear. My point is that it's easy to have a lot of 'hype' if no other characters show up and show the gap.

>> You thought Zhang San/Li Si would be at the top of the chain, but guess what? They are just 2 disciples of Lord Long/Mu.

>> How strong would the 2 Island Masters have to be then? It's not far-fetch to place them at around Great Levels.

I feel this is some pretty strong hype factor here. Was there any actual indication them being diciples automatically made them 20% (random number) of their masters. (It's been a while since I read the book.) As a hyperbolic example, YG is technically XLN's diciple and he's also probably top 3 in his era so since he's her diciple, XLN is actually Sweeper level.

It could be the case that the Greats are 10-15 levels (and by level, I mean tier) past the next strongest but we're doing some normalization when comparing cross eras.

Greats --- Lord Long/Mu
??? --- Zhang San/Li Si
???
???
???
???

SPW similarly has a power scaling that's similar.

YBQ < 6 Fairies < Monk ~< 4 playthings < XWT < RWX < DFBB.

My thoughts are a little fuzzy here. I do think SPT is very strong but I've always found him in the 'potentially not that strong' category.
His level can range from LOCH Great all the way to past XZ as the strongest protagonist IMO.

[CancerLuna]

LV 79: Yang Guo (RO) - Without Heavy Iron Sword. [Happy State: -3LV, Sorrow State: +1LV]
LV 78: Murong Bo (TL)
LV 78: Xiao Yuan Shan (TL)

LV 77: Zhou Botong (RO) - Pre & Post 16 Years.
LV 77: Jinlun Fawang (RO) - Post 16 Years.
LV 77: Jiu Mo Zhi (TL)
LV 77: Zhang San Feng (YT) - Mainly due to his old age.

YG was still clearly beating GWM even in his happy state. It's a little strange to put him below these guys. I'd put him at 78/80 honestly.

[reydge]

@reydge: so where is wei xiaobao? at lv.1?

LV 79: Yang Guo (RO) - Without Heavy Iron Sword. [Happy State: -3LV, Sorrow State: +1LV]
LV 78: Murong Bo (TL)
LV 78: Xiao Yuan Shan (TL)

LV 77: Zhou Botong (RO) - Pre & Post 16 Years.
LV 77: Jinlun Fawang (RO) - Post 16 Years.
LV 77: Jiu Mo Zhi (TL)
LV 77: Zhang San Feng (YT) - Mainly due to his old age.

YG was still clearly beating GWM even in his happy state. It's a little strange to put him below these guys. I'd put him at 78/80 honestly.

((When Yang Guo was reunited with Xiao Longnu, this style lost its essence. When Yang Guo faced death and parting with Xiao Longnu the sorrow and melancholy suddenly surged forth in his heart and immediately boosted the power of the “Melancholic Sad Palms”))

And I do not put him below than those guys.His base LV is 79.We know progress in martial art is hard and YG could defeat GWM with his sad palm so with sorrow state he get +1 LV but in happy state he could not defeat GWM and was in danger so he get -3 LV

OK
in The Deer and the Cauldron we have this:
((Seeing the girl’s punching and kicking was getting more and more chaotic, he thought, “The people of old said that when one has reached outstanding attainments in martial art, even hanging something on the antelope’s antler won’t leave any trace that’s possible to seek. I heard that in the previous dynasty there was this Dugu Quibai Daxia , and then there was Linghu Chong Daxia, who defeat a move without a move; they were unequalled in their era. Could it be … could it be …”))

First
It is a proof
second
Should not we add more details about LingHu Chong?

[CancerLuna]

>And I do not put him below than those guys.His base LV is 79.We know progress in martial art is hard and YG could defeat GWM > with his sad palm so with sorrow state he get +1 LV but in happy state he could not defeat GWM and was in danger so he get -3 LV

That's my point though, YG could beat GWM even in his happy state.

[WuxiaMaster]

My thoughts are a little fuzzy here. I do think SPT is very strong but I've always found him in the 'potentially not that strong' category.
His level can range from LOCH Great all the way to past XZ as the strongest protagonist IMO.

Agree that there's always the possibility of him being not that strong, but it's not that probable because that would lower the entire wulin drastically.

There was no clear period of when Xia Ke Xing took place, but from what I read it is definitely not in the Qing Dynasty. Among the wulin masters that were brought to Xia Ke Island, if i recall correctly, include even high profile sects like elders and abbots of wudang/shaolin.

Unless the skills of these sects have deteriorate to complete thrash, you need to be at least "of some standard" to be able to clear out sects single-handedly and be feared through the ENTIRE wulin.

When I look at the characters at say LV50+ (guys like 4 guardians, 2 envoys, 4 divine monks), yes they can be considered pretty strong (capable of thrashing any minor sect leaders) - but would they have the capability to wipe out sects after sects single-handedly? Would they be able to announce their arrival way beforehand, have the enemy prepare all sorts of traps/reinforcements, turn up and still massacre them all?

I don't think anyone at the LV50 tier can do it, in any period of Wulin (aside from in Qing Dynasty).

[tape]

I only read XKX once and my memories of it are a bit hazy, but the sects that got wiped out were generally on the smaller side right?

Small sects are really, really weak if any expert decides to wipe them out -- take Xie Xun thrashing all the top experts on Wanpan Island effortlessly.

Another example would be Lin Zhennan's escort house in SPW. Their job is to be fighters and protecting people and had ~50 henchmen at the house, but two disciples of a 3rd tier school completely ransacked the whole place with the people there having no ability to resist. Yue Buqun says that if they gathered all their men, prepared ahead of time and linked up with the Golden Blade Family, then they had a small chance. This is all from a weak Qingching Sect. They should still be weaker than the schools that got massacred in XXK, but it really goes to show that not very powerful people can look very powerful depending on their opposition.

The young Wudang heroes who are much weaker than the Guardian lords in the beginning of HSDS have already proven themselves countless times and there should be a few anecdotes of them taking on smaller sects all by themselves. Yin Susu by herself took out the whole escort house as well (again, depending on how you view escort houses versus small sects which both seem to number ~50-100 people).

The top people in wulin like Xie Yan Ke and Bai Zi Zai also did not impress me very much at all from what I remember. Xie Yan Ke did not feel as powerful as even Yang Xiao. I think it was explicitly stated that there were a few flaws in his martial arts while he was practicing, as well as him getting ambushed without the people even trying since he was so absorbed. Then a few times I seem to remember him getting super scared and trying to act tough but was glad when he had an excuse to leave dangerous situations. Just didn't impress me at all.

Bai Zi Zai, wasn't his martial arts pretty standard but he found some elixir that gave him great inner strength or something? Seems like another candidate for being somewhat overrated and the general quality of opponents just being lower. He suddenly went crazy too, and barring Ouyang Feng with the whole reverse 9 Yin thing, not many powerful fighters just go insane for no reason.

I wouldn't rank Zhang San/Li Si at Du monk level just from their feats, as I can easily imagine Yang Xiao and White Eagle obliterating small sects by themselves and together they are still a tad weaker than the weakest Du monk. We don't really Zhang San/Li Si's upper limit, but from just the feats alone I don't think they are Du monk material.

[Ken Cheng]

>And I do not put him below than those guys.His base LV is 79.We know progress in martial art is hard and YG could defeat GWM > with his sad palm so with sorrow state he get +1 LV but in happy state he could not defeat GWM and was in danger so he get -3 LV

That's my point though, YG could beat GWM even in his happy state.

To be more precise, Yeung Gor held the upper hand for much of the fight even in his normal (e.g. non-sad) state, but he didn't actually close the deal and finish the fight until full-powered Sad Palms (fueled by sadness) kicked in. Until that happened, Golden Wheel Monk was on his heels, but not actually beaten yet.

[PJ]

Not sure Xia Xueyi is above Yuan Chengzhi. I could be wrong but I thought it was stated that the Golden Snake Sword art is inferior to Huashan art. I also seem to recall that it was implied (if not stated) that Yuan Chengzhi by the first part of the novel already reached, if not surpassed, Xia Xueyi's level. No?

[CancerLuna]

SNIP

This is some good stuff and it's good you've put into words what I've failed to express but have internalized.

To be more precise, Yeung Gor held the upper hand for much of the fight even in his normal (e.g. non-sad) state, but he didn't actually close the deal and finish the fight until full-powered Sad Palms (fueled by sadness) kicked in. Until that happened, Golden Wheel Monk was on his heels, but not actually beaten yet.

To be more precise. GWM felt he was going to lose after about 200 stances.

Even if he didn't seal the deal, he showed he was clearly superior. Not sure how we'd rationalize him being WEAKER than GWM when all signs points to him being superior, sad or happy.

[Ken Cheng]

To be more precise. GWM felt he was going to lose after about 200 stances.

Even if he didn't seal the deal, he showed he was clearly superior. Not sure how we'd rationalize him being WEAKER than GWM when all signs points to him being superior, sad or happy.

He wasn't weaker (or he wouldn't have won at all); he just needed to be at full strength to actually finish the fight.