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Thread: Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

  1. #1
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    Default Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

    Note: Please refer to the post below for clarifications on how this list is derived and FAQ.

    This list is last updated on 16th Mar 2019

    Legendary Level (武林神话)– Godly Legends of Wulin

    Sweeper Monk (TL)
    Dugu Qiubai (RO / XAJH) – Speculation. He is considerably better than Dong Fang Bu Bai.

    Possible Candidates:
    These are extremely speculative, distant background characters that do not appear directly in the Novels. They are added purely for fun and strictly speaking should not be considered in this chart.
    - Damo Founder
    - Creator of Kuihua Baodian
    - Murong Longcheng
    - Xiaoyao Zi, Founder of Xiaoyao Sect


    Level 90 (神功盖世,天下无敌)– The pinnacle of martial arts and perfection!

    LV 90: Xu Zhu (TL) – Held back by weak combat ability. Internal at LV100.
    LV 90: Shi Po Tian (XKX)

    LV 87: Tian Shan Tong Lao (TL) - She is stronger than Li Qiu Shui at full power.
    LV 86: Wu Ya Zi (TL)
    LV 85: Li Qiu Shui (TL)
    LV 85: Duan Yu (TL) – Assume functional Liu Mai Shen Jian. Held back by weak combat ability.
    LV 85: Dongfang Bu Bai (XA) – Trait: Demonic Speed

    LV 85: Huang Shang, Creator of Jiuyin (LO) – Speculation.

    LV 82: Di Yun (LCJ) – Assume 神照经 is on the same tier as 九阴/九阳 from its feats.


    Level 80 (绝世高手)- Only the strongest characters in all of Jinyong Novels reaches here.

    LV 80: Xiao Feng (TL) - Skillset/Internal at LV75. Trait: Fighting God.
    LV 80: Murong Bo (TL)
    LV 80: Xiao Yuan Shan (TL)

    LV 80: Duan Yu (TL) – At Shaolin battle. Assume functional Liu Mai Shen Jian. Held back by weak combat ability.

    LV 80: Yang Guo (RO) - Without Heavy Iron Sword. [Happy State: -1LV, Sorrow State: +1LV]

    LV 80: Guo Jing (RO) - Post 16 Years. Speculation.
    LV 80: Feng Qing Yang (XA) - Speculation. Stronger than Ren Wo Xing. Lower limit LV75, upper limit unknown.
    LV 80: Lin Yuan Tu (XA) - Speculation. He can range from LV75 to LV85.

    LV 80: Wang Chong Yang (LO) – It is logically impossible for him to be at this LV at the time of his death. He is placed here because it is always the Author Intention for him to be 1 tier above the 4 Greats at all point of time.

    LV 77: Zhou Botong (RO) - Pre & Post 16 Years.
    LV 77: Jinlun Fawang (RO) - Post 16 Years.
    LV 77: Jiu Mo Zhi (TL)
    LV 77: Zhang San Feng (YT) - Held back largely by his old age.
    LV 77: Zhang Wu Ji (YT)

    LV 76: Guo Jing (RO) - Pre 16 Years.


    Level 75 (绝顶高手)- The "4 Greats" Level.

    LV 75: East Heretic, Huang Yao Shi (RO) - Pre & Post 16 Years.
    LV 75: South Emperor, Yideng (RO) - Pre & Post 16 Years.
    LV 75: West Venom, Ouyang Feng (RO)
    LV 75: North Beggar, Hong Qi Gong (RO)
    LV 75: Yang Guo - Pre 16 years, using Heavy Iron Sword.

    LV 75: Guo Xiang (YT) – Speculation of highest level reached.

    LV 74: Zhang Wu Ji (YT) – After mastering Taiji Sword & Fist at Wudang.

    LV 72: Qiu Qian Ren / Ci En (RO) - Both Pre & Post 16 Years.
    LV 72: Fang Zheng (XA)
    LV 72: Lord Long/Mu of Xia Ke Island (XKX)
    LV 72: Zhou Bo Tong (LO) - After he was "enlightened" by Guo Jing.
    LV 72: Ouyang Feng (LO) - At 2nd Mt Hua after he becomes crazy.
    LV 72: Ding Dian (LCJ)

    LV 72: Wang Chong Yang (LO) – Speculation. At the time of his death.
    LV 72: Yellow Dressed Girl, Lady Yang (YT) - Speculation.


    Level 70 (一代宗师)– The "Sub-Greats" or "LOCH Greats" Level

    LV 70: East Heretic, Huang Yao Shi (LO)
    LV 70: South Emperor, Yideng (LO)
    LV 70: North Beggar, Hong Qi Gong (LO)
    LV 70: Kurong (TL)
    LV 70: Xiao Long Nu (RO) – After learning Left/Right Technique
    LV 70: Jinlun Fawang (RO) - Pre 16 years. Internal at LV75.
    LV 70: Ren Wo Xing (XA)

    LV 70: Lin Chao Ying (LO) – Speculation. At first Mount Hua.
    LV 69: Ling Hu Chong (XA) – Before Learning Yi Jin Jing. VS Sword-Using Opponents Only. LV60 VS Non Sword-Using Opponents. See FAQ.

    LV 68: Zhang Wu Ji (YT) – End of battle against 6 righteous sects on Bright Peak.

    LV 67: Qiu Qian Ren (LO)
    LV 66: Chong Xu (XA)
    LV 66: Duan Zheng Ming (TL)


    Level 65 (罕逢敌手)– Upper tier Elites. Extremely powerful characters that rarely meet his match.

    LV 65: Duan Yan Qing (TL)
    LV 65: Reverend Huangmei (TL)
    LV 65: Xuan Ci, Shaolin Abbot (TL)
    LV 65: Zhang San / Li Si (XKX)
    LV 65: Du E/Du Jie/Du Nan (YT) - Range From LV65 to LV62 (Strongest To Weakest)
    LV 65: Guo Jing (LO) - At the end of LOCH.

    LV 65: Yang Ding Tian (YT) - Speculation. At time of his death. He defeated Du E 10 years prior to story.
    LV 65: The 4 LOCH Greats (LO) – Speculation of their LV at first Mt. Hua.
    LV 65: Zhou Bo Tong (LO) - Before he was "enlightened" by Guo Jing on Peach Blossom Island.

    LV 64: Zuo Leng Chan (XA) – Before Blinded
    LV 62: Ding Chun Qiu (TL)
    LV 62: Xiang Wen Tian (XA)
    LV 62: Yue Bu Qun (XA) - After Learning Bixie
    LV 62: Divine Condor, Shen Diao (RO)

    Level 60 (一流高手)– Mid tier Elites. Considered top tier in General Wulin.

    LV 60: Murong Fu (TL)
    LV 60: You Tan Zhi (TL) – Internal at LV80. Held by back weak combat ability and techniques.
    LV 60: Sword God Zhuo Bu Fan (TL)
    LV 60: Cheng Kun (YT) – Before Blinded.
    LV 60: Two Demons of Hejian, Bu Tai and Hao Mi (YT)
    LV 60: Fang Sheng (XA)

    LV 60: Zhang Wu Ji (YT) - Upon mastering 9YangShenGong (after Qiankun Bag). Internal at LV80.
    LV 60: He Zu Dao (YT) – Estimation, dead before story.
    LV 58: Guo Jing (LO) - After enlightened by Great Dipper during Begger's Meet.
    LV 58: Xie Yan Ke (XKX)


    Level 55 (二流高手)– Lower tier Elites. Considered top tier in General Wulin.

    LV 55: Gongsun Chi (RO)
    LV 55: Huang Rong (RO) - Full Health, Non Pregnant State.
    LV 55: Xuan Ming Elders (YT) – Their Xuan Ming poison palms, if connected, is particularly devastating [+10LV] against opponents without strong Yang energy to dissipate its effect.
    LV 55: Lin Ping Zhi (XAJH) - After learning Bixie but before blinded.
    LV 55: Bai Zi Zai (XKX)
    LV 55: Xue Dao Lao Zu (LCJ)
    LV 55: Su Xing He (TL)

    LV 54: Yang Xiao (YT)
    LV 54: Fan Yao (YT)

    Zhao Min’s Wudang Subordinates
    LV 55: Kong Xiang (YT)
    LV 55: Ah Da (YT)
    LV 52: Ah Er (YT)
    LV 52: Ah San (YT)


    Level 50(三流高手)– Upper tier experts in Jinyong Main Novels.

    LV 50: Mie Jue (YT) – Equipped with Heavenly Sword.
    LV 50: Nimo Xing (RO)
    LV 50: Yin Kexin (RO)
    LV 50: Xiao Xiangzi (RO)
    LV 50: Qiu Qianchi (RO) - Only based on internal (disregarding her disability)
    LV 50: Bujie Monk (XA)
    LV 50: Duan Zheng Chun (TL)
    LV 50: Luo Hua Liu Shui 4 Swordsmen (LCJ)

    Plum Manor, 4 Friends of JiangNan
    LV 58: 1st Brother Huang Zhonggong (XA)
    LV 55: 2nd Brother Hei Bai Zi (XA)
    LV 42: 3rd Brother Tu Bi Weng (XA)
    LV 40: 4th Brother Dan Qing Sheng (XA)

    4 Guardians of Ming Sect
    LV 50: White Eagle, Yin Tian Zheng (YT)
    LV 50: Green Bat, Wei Yi Xiao (YT)
    LV 50: Golden Lion, Xie Xun (YT)
    LV 45: Purple Dragon, Zi Sha Long Wang / Jin Hua Popo (YT)

    (YT) 4 Divine Monks of Shaolin
    LV 56: Kong Jian (YT) - Strongest of 4 Divine Monks. Died to Xie Xun’s trickery.
    LV 50: Kong Wen (YT) -Abbot of Shaolin
    LV 48: Kong Zhi (YT) - Lost to White Eagle Guardian at Battle of Bright Peak.
    LV 48: Kong Xing (YT), Practiced Dragon Claws Skill. Killed by Ah San.

    LV 48: Ding Mian (XA)
    LV 48: Ding Bu Si (XKX)
    LV 48: Ding Bu San (XKX)
    LV 48: Bei Hai Shi (XKX)
    LV 48: Li Mo Chou (RO)

    LV 46: Guo Jing (LO) - After learning from Zhou Botong at Peach Blossom Island.


    Level 45 (融会贯通)– Lower tier experts in Jinyong Main Novels.

    LV 45: Ying Gu (RO)
    LV 45: Shi Qing (XKX)
    LV 45: Min Rou (XKX)
    LV 45: Bai Wan Jian (XKX)
    LV 45: Quanzhen 7 Elders (RO) - Qiu Chu Ji (LV50), Ma Yu (LV48), Wang Chu Yi (LV48), Liu Chu Xuan (LV45), Hao Datong (LV38), Sun Bu Er (LV34)

    LV 45: Mei Chaofeng (LO) – Blinded, at battle against QZ 7 Priests
    LV 45: Feng Bu Ping (XA)

    LV 44: Xiao Long Nu (RO) - Before Learning Left-Right Technique
    LV 44: Yang Guo (RO) - Post Golden Wheel Monk Advice, before losing his arm


    LV 44: Mo Da (XA)

    LV 42: Wudang 7 Swordmen (YT) - Strongest Yu Lian Zhou/Song Yuan Qiao (LV46) to Weakest Mo Shenggu (LV38). Wudang 3rd Swordmen is cripple and excluded.
    LV 42: Yin Ye Wang (YT)
    LV 42: Yue Bu Qun (XA) – Pre Bixie Swordplay
    LV 42: Ouyang Ke (LO) - Before crippled.
    LV 42: Feng Mo Feng (RO) - Crippled
    LV 42: Daerba (RO) - At Martial Art meet


    Level 40 (鹤立鸡群)– Seasoned pugilists and leaders of small sects

    4 Vicious Evil (TL)
    LV 42: Ye Er Niang (TL)
    LV 40: Yue Lao San (TL)
    LV 36: Yun Zhong He (TL)

    Murong Fu’s 4 Servants
    LV 44: #1, Deng Bai Chuan (TL)
    LV 42: #2, Gong Zhi Qian (TL)
    LV 35: #3, Bao Bu Tong (TL)
    LV 32: #4, Feng Bo E (TL)

    Dali Servants
    LV 40: Dali 4 Servants (TL)
    LV 48: Zhu Zi Liu (RO)
    LV 42: Diancang Yuyin (RO)
    LV 40: Wu Santong (RO)

    LV 40: Huo Du (RO) – At Marital Art Meet
    LV 40: Yelu Qi (RO) - Post 16 years
    LV 40: Zhou Zhi Ruo (YT) - After learning Jiu Yin Bai Gu Zhua
    LV 40: Ren Ying Ying (XA)
    LV 40: 10 Elders of Sun Moon Cult (XA)
    LV 40: Liu Zheng Feng, Tianmen Dao Ren (XA)
    LV 40: Qu Yang (XA)
    LV 40: Taogu 6 Immortals (XA)
    LV 40: Quanzhen 7 Elders (LO) - Qiu Chu Ji (LV42), Ma Yu (LV41), Wang Chu Yi (LV40), Liu Chu Xuan (LV38), Tan Chuduan (LV30), Hao Datong (LV30), Sun Bu Er (LV26)

    LV 40: Ying Gu (LO)
    LV 40: Jiu Nan (LDJ)
    LV 40: Hong An Tong (LDJ)
    LV 40: Miao Ren Feng (XSFH)
    LV 40: Hu Fei (FHWZ)

    LV 40: Guo Jing (LO) - Right after learning full set of 18 Dragon Palms

    LV 38: Yang Guo (RO) - At Martial Arts Meet
    LV 38: Yuan Chengzhi (BXJ)

    LV 36: Kunlun Leaders He Tai Chong & Wife (YT)
    LV 36: Huashan 2 Tall/Short Elders (YT)
    LV 36: Yu Cang Hai (XA)
    LV 36: Mu Gao Feng (XA)
    LV 36: Hengshan Leaders Ding Yi & Ding Xian (XA)


    Level 35 (略有小成)– Seasoned Pugilist. Medicore in Song Dynasty, Top Tier in Qing Dynasty

    LV 35: Ao Bai (LDJ)
    LV 35: Chen Jin Nan (LDJ)
    LV 35: Feng Xi Fan (LDJ)
    LV 35: Miao Ren Feng (XSFH) – When he fought Hu Yi Dao
    LV 35: Hu Yi Dao (XSFH)
    LV 35: Miao Fan Tian (XSFH)
    LV 35: Tian Bo Guang (XA)
    LV 35: Zhong Wan Chou (TL)

    LV 35: Ning Zhong Ze (XA)
    LV 35: 5 San Ren (YT)

    LV 34: Guo Jing (LO) - After Hong Qi Gong taught him 15 Dragon Palms.
    LV 34: Yelu Qi (RO) – Pre 16 Years

    LV 32: Huang Rong (LO) - After first meeting with Hong Qi Gong (learnt Xiaoyao Fists)
    LV 32: Yang Guo (RO) - When he left Mt.Zhongnan after mastering Jade Maiden Sutra (Before Mt. Hua)

    LV 32: Kongdong 5 Elders (YT)
    LV 32: Lu You Jiao (RO)
    LV 32: Lao De Nuo (XA)

    Wanyan HongLie’s Jin Lackeys
    LV 35: Peng Lian Hu (LO)
    LV 32: Lingzhi Shangren (LO)
    LV 32: Liang Ziweng (LO)
    LV 30: Sha Tong Tian (LO)


    Level 30 (武功平平)- Weak in Song Dynasty, Elite in Qing Dynasty

    LV 30: Yue Ling Shan (XA) - After learning secret arts in Mt Hua Cave.

    LV 28: Lan Fenghuang (XA) – Not including her poison abilities

    LV 26: Song Qing Shu (YT)
    LV 26: Yang Kang (LO)


    Level 25 (初出茅庐)- Weak in Song Dynasty, Strong in Qing Dynasty. Most of Jinyong Heroes Starts Their Wulin Journey Here.

    LV 25: Guo Fu, Wu Brothers (RO) - Post 16 years.
    LV 25: Zhao ZhiJing, Zhen Zhibing (RO)
    LV 25: Sha Gu (LO)
    LV 25: Ke Zhen E (LO)
    LV 25: Hai Dafu (LDJ)
    LV 25: Ah Zi (TL)
    LV 25: Most of Duan Zheng Chun's wives (TL) - Qin Hong Mian, Dao Bai Feng
    LV 25: Ling Hu Chong (XA) - At start of novel
    LV 25: Yin Su Su (YT)
    LV 25: Zhao Min, Zhu'er (YT)

    LV 22: Yang Guo (RO) - When Li Mo Chou invade the Tomb
    LV 22: Guo Jing, Huang Rong (LO) - When they first met each other
    LV 22: Hu Fei (FHWZ) – End of FHWZ


    Level 20 (不足挂齿)- Trash Tier. Very Weak in Song Dynasty, Mediocre in Qing Dynasty

    LV 20: Ma Guang Zuo (RO)
    LV 20: Granny Sun (RO)
    LV 20: Cheng Ying (RO) - Pre 16 Years
    LV 20: Most Hall Leaders of Qing Mu Tang (LDJ)
    LV 20: Su Quan (LDJ)

    LV 20: 4 Swords Maidens Mei Lan Zu Ju (TL)

    LV 18: Guo Fu, Wu Brothers (RO) - Pre 16 years.
    LV 16: Lu Wu Shuang (RO) - Pre 16 Years

    LV 12-16: 7 Freaks of JiangNan (LO) - Except Ke Zhen E


    Level 15 (不堪一击)- Can take on a handful of trained soldiers/underlings.

    LV 15: Shuang Er (LDJ)
    LV 15: Lin Zhen Nan (XA)
    LV 15: Mu Nian Ci (LO)
    LV 15: Ah Zhu (TL)
    LV 15: Mu Wan Qing (TL)
    LV 15: Yue Ling Shan (XA) - Before learning secret arts in Mt Hua Cave.


    Level 10 (杂鱼)- Have the most basic of martial arts. Can take on a few soldiers.

    LV 10: Zhong Ling (TL)

    LV 8: Huanghe 4 Ghosts (LO)
    LV 8: Yang Tie Xin (LO), Guo Xiao Tian (LO)
    LV 8: Lin Ping Zhi (XA) - Pre Bixie.
    LV 8: Most of Wei Xiao Bao's wives (LDJ) - Ah Ke, Zeng Rou, Fang Yi, Mu Jian Ping


    Level 5 (小喽啰)- Disciples, Followers, Underlings, Soldiers

    Majority of unimportant sect disciples, followers, underlings will fall in here.

    LV 3: Possible characters include Xu Zhu (TL), Yi Lin (XA) at start of novel
    LV 2: Armed Guard / Soldier
    LV 1: Possible characters include Duan Yu (TL) at start of novel


    Special Category - Formations & Teamwork

    Xiao Long Nu (LV45) + Yang Guo (LV42) = LV75 [玉女素心剑法 Jade Maiden Swordplay]
    7 LOCH Quanzhen Disciples (LV26-42) = LV70 [天罡北斗阵 Big Dipper Formation]
    3 Du Monks (LV62 – LV65) = LV80 [金刚伏魔圈: Telepathic and Buddhism Power]

    7 Wudang Heroes (LV38-LV46) = LV90 [真武七截阵] - Speculation
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 03-30-19 at 07:45 AM.

  2. #2
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    LEVEL GUIDELINES

    General guidelines on how to interpret the LVs, for 2 characters A and B:

    1 Lv Difference - The difference is minuscule and A is only perceived to be very slightly stronger. In a fight to death, it’s hard to say who will win and possibly both may perish in battle.

    2, 3 LV Difference – There are concrete or acknowledged evidence that A is stronger than B, but the difference is still extremely narrow. A would probably win, but only after an extremely long and arduous battle (possibly >1000+ exchange). It would take a lot out of A (exhausting all his energy/stamina) to win this battle.

    Example: ZBT vs Greats

    5 LV Difference - The difference is wide enough now that A would most definitely win, provided A fight seriously and not let down his guard. B can give a very good challenge.

    Example: LOCH Great vs LOCH Guo Jing

    10 LV Difference - At this point, A should be able to defeat B with relatively ease (likely within 100 exchange). There is almost no chance of B winning. However, A still need to exhaust considerable attention/energy/stamina to deal with B.

    15 LV Difference - Similar to a 10LV difference, but now A would be able to defeat B with even less effort and likely much quicker (within 50 exchange). There is no conceivable chance of B ever winning.

    20 LV Difference, and Beyond - Depending on the martial arts used, it's possible for A to defeat B in one hit, or within several blows. B has no chance of winning. Beyond this point there should be no noticeable difference in the fight - it would just mean that A would need to utilize less percent of his power to win.


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    BASIS OF RANKING & DEALING WITH INCONSISTENCIES
    This chart is based solely on Jinyong original novel only (no adaptations). It takes into consideration the entire "fighting capability” of a character to win against another. Any deviation from below would be stated specifically for that character.

    Taken Into Account
    - Physical Attributes (Being blind, crippled, etc...)
    - Age (A character base progression of deeper internal as he age could be offset by corresponding fall in stamina after around 70)
    - Author narrative (What is described according to the author)
    - Actual Performance (What actually happens in the story such as feats and battle against other opponents)
    - Skillset, internal, technique, lightness skill and speed (including martial arts cultivation/knowledge)
    - Battle experience/combat ability
    - Combat Intelligence (knows how to deploy different martial technique to deal with different opponents)
    - Weapon (If a character primarily fights using one)

    There are several instance where the author narrative and a character actual performance differs greatly - most notaby in Qiu Qian Ren and Jinlun Fawang case. For example:

    1. Based on author narrative - We could rank Qiu Qian Ren 1 LV below the 4 Greats.
    2. Based on actual performance - We could rank Qiu Qian Ren 5 to 8 LV below the 4 Greats.

    Worst still, there are inconsistencies within each evidence type (e.g. XM elder "1-Hit" KO Yang Xiao during their appearance, but was later proved to be not much better than the left/right envoy). This chart tries its best to incorporate all the above to derive a fair value.

    When actual performance and author narrative contradict each other, more weight-age (70%) is given to actual performance. (e.g. GWM and QQR). When actual performance differs in different battles, we try to consider all battles equally. More weight-age is given to 1v1 battle. (e.g. XF failure to beat MRF+YTZ does not drop his LV).

    Not Taken Into Account
    - Potential (We only rank base on strongest point in the novel, not what could be in the future. Unless stated as speculation)
    - Character Traits (e.g. Benevolence, unwillingness to hurt another)
    - Non combat intelligence (e.g. charisma, seduction, able to talk his way out of things, ability to escape)

    It's sometimes difficult to exclude character traits. Hence, we rank the character assuming it's a "fight to the death". The level of the character is when he is under the state where he "has to defeat/kill his opponent".

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    GENERAL FAQ

    - Character levels listed are at their MOST POWERFUL POINT IN THE NOVEL (Usually the End), unless otherwise stated. Weapons are not counted except when stated. The exception is when the character fights primarily with weapon (e.g XAJH novel)

    - This Chart is targeted at 1 VS 1. Its accuracy is greatly diminished for handicap matches (1v2, 1v3) as too many factors would come into play (swordplay, skills synergy, formation, etc). As a guideline, one should have no problem 1v2 persons 15LV lower, but not always. (Notable exception: Xiao Feng failure to defeat Murong Fu + You Tan Zhi)

    - In actual combat, there are always more factors involved: environmental (dark cave more advantageous for blind), distraction, underestimation of opponent, inability to focus, being poison, low confidence will all affect a character fighting capability. Therefore, it doesn’t mean a lower LV character will always lose.

    - Level units are not "equal" throughout - The difference from LV70 to LV75 is GREATER than the difference from LV30 to LV35. In RPG terms, it simply means you need more experience to progress to the next at higher levels. This is to stimulate the "plateau effect" of martial arts, and to prevent the upper tier characters from getting into ridiculous Levels. In other words, the higher LV you go, the more difficult it becomes to "level up".

    - For background: The list started out from the ROCH Greats Level (which defaults to 75). The comparisons started and expanded gradually from there. The main tiers characters can be classify as: Legendary -> Great -> Elite -> Expert -> Seasoned -> Novice.

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    About 1 Hit Kill
    Even if 2 characters has a insanely wide difference, it doesn't means that one will definitely KO the other in ONE hit. There are too many variables here at play, in particular different fighting styles (some are more aggressive/power based, some are more technique based, some uses speed/agility, etc)

    One hit KO could make sense for chars using "high power" arts like H7G XL18Z. Can a Quanzhen Elder (40 LV diff) take on a full-power XL18Z from him? No.

    Now let's imagine a QZ Elder against HYS, who choose to use some 'fancier' palms techniques (Luo Ying Shen Jian Zhang). Or picture the QZ Elder against HQG, this time using Dog Beating Skill instead. The Great strikes a couple of times, and it's not inconceivable that a QZ elder could dodge/block with sword, and hold on for a few stances. Dog Beating Skill isn't the same 'raw power' technique like XL18Z, and likely can't explode your target in 1 hit.

    Against someone like DFBB who focuses on speed, a 20 LV difference might not mean that the other guy is going to get kill in 1 blow, since again DFBB doesn't use raw high power blasts. Z3F can one-hit a Xuanming Elder if they clash palms, but if he uses Taiji Sword VS Ah Da, the fight will probably last much longer than 1 stance.

    Finally, there are cases where a character just have extraordinary defensive techniques. For example, Duan Yu could be say at LV10 after learning Lingbo Weibu. However, LV40 Yue Lao San can't hit him at all. And probably even LV80 XF can't hit him.

    Are we going to argue that their difference is less than 20LVs because of this? Obviously no. In this case, the better way to read it would be: DY have zero chance of defeating XF at that point in the novel.

    The skills YingGu practiced have some "defensive properties" too, so it doesn't mean that her difference with Fawang is less than 20.

    Power Utilization
    Another point we should consider is if the difference is huge, a character usually doesn't give his all. E.g. HYS may only use 10% of internal when he's fighting against 7 Freaks. When a fight starts, characters usually doesn't go 100% right away. They power up slowly and just utilize whatever is sufficient to defeat his opponent.

    Hence, there will definitely be many instances in novels where the difference is insanely huge but somehow the Great doesn't kill the weaker character in 1 blow, or take much longer than usual. (e.g. ZWJ vs ZZR)

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    COMMONLY DISPUTED CHARACTERS AND JUSTIFICATION
    This section list the commonly disputed characters, and the most important reason/argument for placing them at that rank. To nerf/buff any of these characters, you should directly attack these points.

    Dong Fang Bu Bai [LV85]
    - From his ability to toy with RWX + LHC +XWT, he should be rank ~15 LVs above RWX.
    - Already 2nd/3rd strongest in Sun Moon Sect (i.e. already top tier fighter in Wulin) even prior to learning Kui Hua Bao Dian
    - Characters with mere months in the Kui Hua Bao Dian became extremely strong. He practiced it for 20+ years.

    Yang Guo [LV80]
    - Final battle, he was winning against GWM even in his happy state.

    Golden Wheel Monk, Post 16 Years [LV77]
    - He proved himself to be capable of defeating Yideng.

    Zhang San Feng [LV77]
    - By his own estimation at age 100, he did not believe he quite reached the LV of Yang Guo and Guo Jing when he met them 80 years ago.
    - His martial arts cultivation might be higher, but his fighting capability could be limit by his age.

    Zhang Wu Ji [LV77]
    - His internal is comparable to Zhang San Feng, Guo Jing & Yang Guo.
    - Possess Great LV external skillset
    - He frequently perform below this LV due to his “good guy” character.

    Fang Zheng [LV 72]
    - Decades of cultivation in Yi Jin Jing, 1 of the best internal art in JY Universe. It states specifically that this copy of Yi Jin Jing has been safely kept with Shaolin for hundreds of years, and never imparted to outsiders. There is no indication this is a weaker (or far weaker) version than the Yi Jin Jing (which propelled You Tan Zhi to Elite LV) in DGSD.
    - Aside from Dong Fang Bu Bai/Feng Qing Yang, he is number 1 in the Wulin and can be considered as Great LV.

    Ren Wo Xing [LV70]
    - There is no indication that the LV of martial arts (including internal) in SPW is weaker than the Condor Trilogy. These feats including writing on wood (by Fang Zheng), erasing footprints on concrete (by Xiang Wen Tian). From text evidence, it is not unreasonable for him to be at LOCH Great LV.

    Linghu Chong [LV69 against sword, LV60 against others]
    - Linghu Chong is only well-versed in the Sword Breaking Stance and is relatively untrained in the other 8. Feng Qing Yang state that he would need another 20 years to perfect the "Qi Breaking Stance" in order to fight with the true greats of the martial arts world.
    - Linghu Chong was knocked unconscious by the sheer force of Ren Wo Xing's roar, and would lose to anyone with high internal. He himself taught that he would lose badly to Fang Zheng as he didn’t know Qi breaking stance nor Palm breaking stance.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    5 Main Novels
    XA – Xiao Ao Jiang Hu
    TL – Tian Long Ba Bu
    LO – She Diao Ying Xiong Zhuan
    RO – Shen Diao Xia Lu
    YT – Yi Tian Tu Long Ji

    Others
    XKX - Xia Ke Xing
    LDJ – Lu Ding Ji
    XSFH – Xue Shan Fei Hu
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 04-14-18 at 08:26 AM.

  3. #3
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Lets start with Greats at 100.

    GJ 102
    GLFW, ZBT, YG 101
    YD, HYS at level 100.
    QQR 98

    Here comes the controversies...
    Member of HYS fanclub -> click here to join group.

    Member of TC fanclub.

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    1) I wouldn't say that the Xuan Ming Elders combined are a match for ZWJ. The Du monks were individually better than the Xuan Ming Elders and 3 of them combined using a special formation that they had practiced for many years were unable to beat ZWJ the 3rd time around.

    2) Tianshan Tonglao beneath Duan Yanqing?

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    Senior Member The Khan's Avatar
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    You forgot the SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan at the top of the list.

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    Quote Originally Posted by K2Grey
    1) I wouldn't say that the Xuan Ming Elders combined are a match for ZWJ. The Du monks were individually better than the Xuan Ming Elders and 3 of them combined using a special formation that they had practiced for many years were unable to beat ZWJ the 3rd time around.

    2) Tianshan Tonglao beneath Duan Yanqing?
    Are the Du monks individually better than Xuan Ming Elders? What does everyone think? I always thought the Xuan Ming Elders were the strongest "enemy" of Wu Ji. (At most the Du monks are equalled with Xuan Ming Elders)

    The Du monks only become super strong when they use their formation. I believe the 3rd time round, it was Zhou Zhi Ruo together with him against the formation. Zhuo Zhi Ruo is like 80% of Wu Ji by then.

    During the second fight, it was said that Yang Xiao and White Eagle took on 1 monk and ZWJ took on the other 2. So I guess ZWJ = 2 Monk = 2 Elders...

    Now that I think about it, I'll push down the Left Right envoy and 4 guardians by 5 levels...I remember one part where Yang Xiao and Wei Yi Xiao had to sit down to recuperate immediately after taking a blow from Xuan Ming Elders.

    I'm not sure about Tianshan Tonglao and Duan Yanqing difference though...any idea?
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 08-23-06 at 12:06 PM.

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    FYI, Duan Zhengchun is on your list twice/.

    The lower 3 of the 4 Evils of DGSD are pathetically weak. Their martial arts were comparable with each other for the most part. In the Hero's Gathering at Juxian Manor, it was said that around 50 people there had martial arts above Evil #4 Yun Zhonghe. And we all know that the participants there weren't the brightest martial artists of the story at all, considering there were only about 2 fighters from the level right below Xiao Feng (the 2 Xuan generation monks), and the rest were below their level. There were probably close to 100 people from DGSD that were above the level of the 3 Evils.

    Miejue and Song Yuanqiao should definitely be above the level of 3 Evils.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  8. #8
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    by the way WuxiaMaster, there is already a ultimate ranking of the martial artists in the Jin Yong universe, compiled by our wuxia expert Laviathan. I have pasted the rankings below for your convenience:

    Ultimate Ranking in Jin Yong Universe [by Laviathan]

    1. The Nameless Old Sweeper Monk

    2. Wuyazi, Child Mistress of Heavenly Mountain Tianshan Tonglao, Li Qiushui

    3. Xuzhu, Shi Potian
    (Demonic Swordsman Dugu Qiubai)

    4. Guo Jing, Yang Guo, Zhang Sanfeng, Zhang Wuji
    (Central Divinity Wang Chongyang, Huang Shang*A )

    5. Golden Wheel Monk, Zhou Botong, Xiao Yuanshan, Murong Bo, Xiao Feng

    6. Great Wheel Monk Jiumozhi, Eastern Heretic Huang Yaoshi, Southern Emperor Yideng, Western Venom Ouyang Feng, Northern Beggar Hong Qigong, Lord Long and Lord Mu of Gallant Island

    7. Qiu Qianren/Ci'en, Xiaolongnü, Dongfang Bubai
    (You Tanzhi)

    8. Elder Kurong, Abbot Xuanci*B , Duan Yanqing, Duan Zhengming, Abbot Benyin*C and his fellow monks, Ding Chunqiu, Su Xinghe, Murong Fu, the Three Divine Monks of Shaolin Duwei, Dujie and Dunan, Reverend Kongjian, Zhang San and Li Si of Gallant Island
    (Yang Dingtian)

    9. He Zhudao, Yuanzhen/Cheng Kun, Xuanming Elders Lu Zhangke and He Biweng, Eight-Armed Swordsman Fang Dongbai, A Er, A San, Yang Xiao, Fan Yao, Abbot Kongwen*C , Kongzhi, the Two Demons of Hejian Bu Tai and Hao Mi

    10. Miejue, Kongxing, the Four Guardian Lords of the Ming Cult*D , the Seven Heroes of Wudang*E , Xiaoxiangzi, Nimoxing, Yin Kexi, Huang Rong, Feng Qingyang, Abbot Fangzheng*F , Ren Woxing, Taoist Priest Chongxu*G
    (Linghu Chong, the Yellow-Dressed Lady*H )

    11. The Seven Disciples of Quanzhen*I , Huang Yaoshi's disciples*J , Reverend Yideng's four disciples*K, Gongsun Zhi, Li Mochou, Daerba, Yelü Qi, Huodu, Green Furred Lion King Shi Shugang, Shi Huolong, Yue Buqun, Zuo Lengchan, Abbot Miaodi*L , Taoist Priest Yucha*M , Bai Zizai, Xie Yanke, Xiang Wentian

    12. Nun Dingxian, Mister Mo Da, Priest Tianmen, Feng Buping, Mu Renqing, Yuan Chengzhi, Jiunan*N, Yüzhenzi, Priest Musang, Gui Xinshu, Huang Zhen
    (Golden Snake Swordsman Xia Xueyi)

    A. Creator of the Book of Nine Negations (LOCH)
    B. Abbot of Shaolin Temple during Northern Song (DGSD)
    C. Abbot of Shaolin Temple during Yuan Dynasty (HSDS)
    D. Purple Dragon Lord Dai Yisi (Golden Flower Granny), White Eagle Lord Yin Tianzheng, Golden Lion Lord Xie Xun, Green Bat Lord Wei Yixiao
    E. The second hero Yu Lianzhou is the strongest among them, followed by Song Yuanqiao, Zhang Songxi, Zhang Cuishan (Zhang Wuji's father, most talented of the Seven Heroes), Yin Liting (excels in swordsmanship) and Mo Xinggu. Third hero Yu Daiyan has been crippled and does not belong to this ranking.
    F. Abbot of Shaolin Temple during Ming Dynasty (Smiling Proud Wanderer)
    G. Leader of Wudang in Smiling Proud Wanderer
    H. Miss Yang, (great-) granddaughter of Yang Guo and Xiaolongnü
    I. Third disciple Qiu Chuji is the best fighter, followed by Ma Yü, Liu Chuxuan, Wang Chuyi, Hao Datong with Sun Bu'er being the weakest of them all. Tan Chuduan died in LOCH as does not belong to this ranking.
    J. The Black Wind Demons Chen Yuanfeng and Mei Chaofeng are the most powerful, followed by Qu Lingfeng (Qu San), Lu Chengfeng, Wu Tianfeng (never appeared in novel) and Feng Mofeng (his martial arts skills equals those of Li Mochou, but he lacks her fighting experience).
    K. Zhu Ziliu is the most accomplished martial artist of the four, followed by Wu Santong and Diancang Yuyin. The Lumberjack only appeared in LOCH, so his martial arts progress is unknown.
    L. Abbot of Shaolin Temple in Ode to Gallantry
    M. Leader of Wudang in Ode to Gallantry
    N. Princess Changping, daughter of Ming Emperor Chongzhen
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    but.... according to CC, there is a revised version(which I never saw).

    Anyhow, just a boo-boo on Lav's part is that he forgot to include the SWORD GOD Zuo Bufan and he forgot Lin Chao Yin.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    Isn't it kinda pointless to make a universal chart? There are too many characters for us to come to a consensus of how they should be ranked. While both charts above are good and I can mostly understand why they would rank those fighters in those orders, there are already a few rankings that I disagree with. I think it's much easier and funner for us to argue specific cases rather than come up with an overall ranking. The only universal rankings that I would completely agree with is the Sweeper monk at the top of JY's world and of course, the ultimate losing machine BWM at the bottom

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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster
    Are the Du monks individually better than Xuan Ming Elders? What does everyone think? I always thought the Xuan Ming Elders were the strongest "enemy" of Wu Ji. (At most the Du monks are equalled with Xuan Ming Elders)

    The Du monks only become super strong when they use their formation. I believe the 3rd time round, it was Zhou Zhi Ruo together with him against the formation. Zhuo Zhi Ruo is like 80% of Wu Ji by then.

    During the second fight, it was said that Yang Xiao and White Eagle took on 1 monk and ZWJ took on the other 2. So I guess ZWJ = 2 Monk = 2 Elders...

    Now that I think about it, I'll push down the Left Right envoy and 4 guardians by 5 levels...I remember one part where Yang Xiao and Wei Yi Xiao had to sit down to recuperate immediately after taking a blow from Xuan Ming Elders.

    I'm not sure about Tianshan Tonglao and Duan Yanqing difference though...any idea?
    I'm suspicious whether or not you read the book by some of your statements.

    Nope, ZWJ's strongest opponent were the Du Monks. Individually, they are the best after ZWJ and Z3F. Here is the quote: 张无忌见三名老僧在片刻间连毙昆仑派四位高手,举重若轻,游刃有余,武功之高,实是生平罕见,比之鹿杖客和鹤笔翁似乎犹有过之. If your computer can read chinese, then you'll see that it was clearly stated that the Du Monks were stronger than the Xuan Min Elders. In matter of fact, in terms of purity of internal, the Monks were even stronger than ZWJ.

    Indidvidually, the Du Monks are probably ranked 3-5 in HSDS. And they become even stronger when they use the Demon Taming Circle.

    ZZR is not 80% of ZWJ...... If you said this, I assume you got it from the adaptations where the directors seem to try to make ZZR~ZWJ which is WRONG! ZZR in the book was literally USELESS. It eventually became ZWJ himself vs 3 Du Monks. ZZR is even weaker than the Wudang Heros. It's the "wierdness" of her art that beats the living out of the other; however, in terms of martial arts, ZZR is no match for the Wudang Heros which is stated directly as well.俞莲舟纵身而起,右手抓住了软鞭的鞭梢。周芷若裙底飞出一腿,正中俞莲舟腰胁。俞莲舟一直捉摸不 定周芷若诡异的鞭法精要所在,待得见她抖鞭成圈,夺落殷梨亭手中长剑,登时心中雪亮:“原来她功力不过尔尔,这几下抖鞭成圈,比之我们的太极拳功夫可差得远了。”一抓住鞭梢,拚着腰间受她一腿,左手探出,正是一招 “虎爪绝户手”,直插周芷若小腹。周芷若无可抵挡,心中如电光般闪过一个念头:“我今日死在俞二 叔手里。”

    Later in the Du Monk battle: 周芷若的武功纯以奇幻见长,制服武当二侠实是她成就的峰巅,说到内功修为,比之俞莲舟、殷梨亭尚远为不如。It clearly states that she is FAR INFERIOR to the Wudang Heros.

    Wudang Hero 2 is about 20-30% of ZWJ. And ZZR based on this statement is weaker than Wudang Hero 2..... That means ZZR is less than 20% of ZWJ. ZZR was so pathetic that she couldn't even get in the Circle. In other words, ZWJ was fighting the monks all by himself while ZZR gets stuck: here is the quote: 周芷若却不与三僧正面交锋,只在圈外游斗,见到金刚伏魔圈上生出破绽,便即纵身而前,一遇长鞭拦截,立时翻若惊鸿般跃开。这么一来,张无忌和她武学 修为的高下登时判然,

    In the 2nd fight, ZWJ didn't give it his all. ZWJ went 100% serious in the 3rd fight giving it his all. Your statment about 2 Du Monks=1 ZWJ can be thrown right out the window with this: 但张无忌的衣衫却并无异状,这情景高下已判,倘若他是以一对一,甚而以一敌二,早已获胜。It clearly said that if ZWJ was 1 on 2, ZWJ would have already won. 他练的九阳真气原本浑厚无伦,再加上张三丰指点,学得太极拳中练气之法,更是愈斗愈盛,最能持久,实可再拚 一两个时辰,以待对手气衰力竭。 This quote is saying that ZWJ can beat the 3 Du Monks by himself. And it's stated that ZWJ's internal is ~ the 3 Du Monks combined- 张无忌的内劲之强,并不输与三僧联手,

    I think it's VERY clear that TSTL is like lightyears ahead of Duan Yanqing.....
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    but.... according to CC, there is a revised version(which I never saw).
    I think CC has yet to reach the peak of perfection in memory. There was only one version posted. A revised version was mentioned several years ago to be in-the-work, but I never saw it posted.

    Anyhow, just a boo-boo on Lav's part is that he forgot to include the SWORD GOD Zuo Bufan and he forgot Lin Chao Yin.
    Dude, haven't you heard?

    It's ZHUO BUFAN.

    The world trembles at the sound of this graceful name.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    I think CC has yet to reach the peak of perfection in memory. There was only one version posted. A revised version was mentioned several years ago to be in-the-work, but I never saw it posted.



    Dude, haven't you heard?

    It's ZHUO BUFAN.

    The world trembles at the sound of this graceful name.
    Yes, I heard of Lav working on a new one, but I never saw it either. If you go to google and type in Laviathian's Ultimate Ranking in JY Universe, then it'll lead you to a thread that Lav says he is working on a revised version, but I never saw him post it.

    And you want to know why I use ZUO Bufan? It's because your signature didn't highlight the H of Zhuo.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    And you want to know why I use ZUO Bufan? It's because your signature didn't highlight the H of Zhuo.
    Haha, CC and I wholeheartedly agree that ZUO is much cooler than Zhuo.

    But damn it, Jin Yong just had to ruin it by calling him ZHUO.

    You know, I always held great respect for Jin Yong, but after this grotesquely inconvenient name assignment to the SWORD GOD, I am not so sure I like the novelist any more...

    p.s. I'm glad that SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan is keeping me humored during this time of heavy Yang Guo disagreements.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    MUAHAHAHAHAHA! Stretches arms out sideways from cross legged position, palms facing outwards as the rocks explode around me in purple TVB smoke!

    I have pieced together the 2 fragments and recreated THE legendary Kui Hua .....errmm no, the Revised Ultimate Ranking in Jin Yong Universe by Laviathan ver 1.1

    I had to re-create parts of it from scratch because those 2 idiots from HuaShan who brought me the fragments had not reached the Peak of Perfection in their memory. So naturally it would not match 100% with Laviathan's intention.



    Ultimate Ranking in Jin Yong Universe [by Laviathan] "and mashed by CC."


    1. The Nameless Old Sweeper Monk

    2. Tianshan Tonglao, Li Qiushui, Xuzhu, Shi Potian, (Duan Yu)

    3. Guo Jing, Yang Guo, Zhang Sanfeng, Zhang Wuji, Xiao Feng, Murong Bo, Xiao Yuanshan, Great Wheel Monk Jiumozhi, (Wang ChongYang)

    4. Golden Wheel Monk, Zhou Botong+, Eastern Heretic Huang Yaoshi, Southern Emperor Yideng, Qiu Qianren/Ci'en, Northern Beggar Hong Qigong, Western Venom Ouyang Feng, Dongfang Bubai+

    5. Elder Kurong, Abbot Xuanci, Duan Yanqing, Duan Zhengming, Abbot Benyin and his fellow monks, Ding Chunqiu, Su Xinghe, Murong Fu, the Three Divine Monks of Shaolin Duwei, Dujie and Dunan, Reverend Kongjian, Xiaolongnü, Lord Long and Lord Mu of Xiake Dao, He Zhudao, Abbot Fangzheng, Ren Woxing, Feng Qingyang, Linghu Chong,Taoist Priest Chongxu-, (You TanZhi), (Yang DingTian), (Guo Xiang++)

    6. Yuanzhen/Cheng Kun, Xuanming Elders Lu Zhangke and He Biweng, the Two Demons of Hejian Bu Tai and Hao Mi, Eight-Armed Swordsman Fang Dongbai, A Er, A San, Huang Rong, Xiang Wentian, Yue Buqun, Zuo Lengchan

    7. Miejue, Kongxing, the Four Guardian Lords of the Ming Cult, the Seven Heroes of Wudang , Xiaoxiangzi, Nimoxing, Yin Kexi, Bai Zizai, Xie Yanke, Lin Pingzhi

    8. The Seven Disciples of Quanzhen, Huang Yaoshi's disciples, Reverend Yideng's four disciples, Gongsun Zhi, Li Mochou, Daerba, Yelü Qi, Huodu, Green Furred Lion King Shi Shugang, Shi Huolong, Abbot Miaodi, Taoist Priest Yucha, Nun Dingxian, Mister Mo Da, SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan

    9. Priest Tianmen+, Feng Buping+, Mu Renqing, Yuan Chengzhi, Jiunan, Yüzhenzi, Priest Musang, Gui Xinshu, Huang Zhen
    (Golden Snake Swordsman Xia Xueyi)

    Note : A + after the name indicates person could be a bit better. A - after the name indicates could be slightly worse. Names in brackets are for unstable characters like You Tanzhi and Duan Yu or off-screen characters like Wang ChongYang and Yang Dingtian. I was so tempted to put a + after Xiao Feng, but it'll end up with a JuXian brawl here because of that.

    I left out DGKB. If I include him, wouldn't I have to include Murong LongCheng as well? And the KHBD creator? Damo?
    Last edited by CC; 08-23-06 at 10:47 PM.

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    nice....
    I like agree with about 90%-95%.

    Btw, where did Wu Ya Zi go??
    And I feel that Lin Chao Yin should be placed in here. Lav apparently forgot about that lady when he did version 1.
    And where did the 2 Ming Cult Protectors go? I remember Lav posted them in tier 6 in the old one.
    Kongwen and Kongzhi are left out whom I believe should be placed at tier 6(Kongzhi is ~ to Fang Yiao).
    Huang Rong was rated twice. I think she is in tier 7.
    Hm... where does Zan San and Li Si go?
    In the old one, DGQB is estimated to be about tier 2. So where did this guy go??

    A few noticeable changes: The Mu and Long Gallant Lords are both lowered in the ranking. Can someone explain why? And it seems that the SPW Elite has been raised which I can accept.

    Now my 5-10% diagreements, - it's all SPW fighters. I personally feel that Zuo Leng Chan, YBQ, and XWT should all move up one tier. I don't think when the books states that XWT is .5 level below the Elites that it is 2 tier difference.

    Anyhow, at least add in some of the characters missing.
    Last edited by Whsie; 08-23-06 at 10:09 PM.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    "Nun" Guo Xiang also deserves a place in the ranking, should be close to Zhang Sanfeng.

    BUT the one who REALLY screamingly deserves a place in the ranking, is, of course...

    NOT SWORD GOD ZHUO BUFAN

    but his counterpart

    DEMONIC SWORDSMAN DUGU QIUBAI.

    I think CC did this as a conspiracy to wipe out SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan's competition
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    "Nun" Guo Xiang also deserves a place in the ranking, should be close to Zhang Sanfeng.

    BUT the one who REALLY screamingly deserves a place in the ranking, is, of course...

    NOT SWORD GOD ZHUO BUFAN

    but his counterpart

    DEMONIC SWORDSMAN DUGU QIUBAI.

    I think CC did this as a conspiracy to wipe out SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan's competition
    I personally don't think Guo Xiang has the success that Z3F had. Wudang is pretty clearly>E-Mei. But I would still place the "nun" GX at tier 4 or 5.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  19. #19
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ

    I think CC did this as a conspiracy to wipe out SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan's competition

    Shhhhhhh!!!! Now you've done it!

    Yeah, I'll better go edit in Guo Xiang. Wuyazi was crippled so its really hard to factor him in without conjecture. It'll be like trying to factor in a YG with 2 arms or a non-blind Mei Chaofeng.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    I personally don't think Guo Xiang has the success that Z3F had. Wudang is pretty clearly>E-Mei.
    Not really. Wudang was more dominant because Zhang Sanfeng was still alive. If you compare Guo Xiang's students to Zhang Sanfeng's students, well Guo Xiang's immediate students were one generation above the 7 Heroes of Wudang. Looking at the 7 Heroes vs Nun Miejue, they are roughly at the same level. I think Miejue might be slightly older and it is said that she had better internal energy than the 7 Heroes: 加之她内力深厚,犹在宋远桥、俞莲舟、何太冲诸人之上,仅比少林派掌门空闻神僧稍逊

    Comparing the 7 Heroes' disciples (the brightest of whom was Song Qingshu!) to Zhou Zhiruo, I can't say Wudang is better than Emei either.

    The only claim would be that Zhang Sanfeng may exceed the level of Guo Xiang. However we don't know that for sure. And Yang Guo once speculated that Guo Xiang at age 70 could attain Reverend Yideng's level, which is around Zhang Sanfeng's level.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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