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Thread: Jinyong Character Level Ranking Chart

  1. #41
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    Yeah.... the difference is quite noticeable. The Xiao Yiao Elders are suppose to be considerably stronger than the DGSD 4 Elite. Based on your system, the Xiao Yiao Elders belong like in level 95.

    And XF admitted to himself that if DY can properly execute the 6MSJ, XF wouldn't be able to handle it. So DY should also get moved up to like 95, but under the condition that DY can fully use 6MSJ. As for XZ, he could beat JMZ without trouble if it weren't for his horrible battle skills and inexperience. Even in Xiao Wu Xiaong Gong, XZ's level is higher. So XZ should also be in Level 90 or 95.

    And LHC, RWX, YBQ aren't better than Fangzhang. So I would put LHC, RWX, YBQ all down 5 level or 10 level.
    Last edited by Whsie; 08-24-06 at 04:06 AM.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  2. #42
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    Changes:
    Hmm...I've moved Tianshan Tonglao gang to be equal to greats of DGSD. Also moved LHC, RWX, YBQ to 5 level below FangZheng. Added Xuanci to LV60.

    I'll keep XZ and DY same as XF since this should be on their ability to defeat another and not their max potential. If XZ is LV 95 that means he can beat 2 XF combined...

    LHC, RWX, YBQ aren't better than Fangzhang. <--- Hmm...was LHC better than RWX at the end? I believe RWX is slightly below FZ?

    Can someone give me a guide on the difference between LHC, RWX, YBQ, FZ and Chongxu?
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 08-24-06 at 04:49 AM.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster
    Changes:
    Hmm...I've moved Tianshan Tonglao gang to be equal to greats of DGSD. Also moved LHC, RWX, YBQ to 5 level below FangZheng. Added Xuanci to LV60.

    I'll keep XZ and DY same as XF since this should be on their ability to defeat another and not their max potential. If XZ is LV 95 that means he can beat 2 XF combined...

    LHC, RWX, YBQ aren't better than Fangzhang. <--- Hmm...was LHC better than RWX at the end? I believe RWX is slightly below FZ?

    Can someone give me a guide on the difference between LHC, RWX, YBQ, FZ and Chongxu?
    You put ZWJ and Z3F too high up! I don't think either of them are 10 levels above GJ and YG.

    And no one else should be near Sweeper Monk. If Sweeper is 100, the next level should be 85 or 80. Not 95, not 90.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster
    Changes:
    Hmm...I've moved Tianshan Tonglao gang to be equal to greats of DGSD. Also moved LHC, RWX, YBQ to 5 level below FangZheng. Added Xuanci to LV60.

    I'll keep XZ and DY same as XF since this should be on their ability to defeat another and not their max potential. If XZ is LV 95 that means he can beat 2 XF combined...

    LHC, RWX, YBQ aren't better than Fangzhang. <--- Hmm...was LHC better than RWX at the end? I believe RWX is slightly below FZ?

    Can someone give me a guide on the difference between LHC, RWX, YBQ, FZ and Chongxu?
    No. LHC was only good in sword combat. If it's not sword, LHC is screwed over. Having not mastered the Break Palm Stance and the Break Chi Stance, LHC would still have trouble against the Elite of SPW. Yes, RWX was slightly below FZ. RWX won his battle because he went to tricks. If it was a regular battle, I think FZ would have won.

    YBQ isn't that high. PXJF mainly cultivates the speed. You realize why PXJF is strong? It's because it gives the fighter insane speed. So even though the stances stink, but with the speed, it turns into something remarkable. But even so, LHC wasn't having trouble. So YBQ is weaker. Xian Wen Tian was stated by RWX to be a half level lower than himself and the other SPW Elites. Chongxu is a bit weaker, but still the same level.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    You put ZWJ and Z3F too high up! I don't think either of them are 10 levels above GJ and YG.

    And no one else should be near Sweeper Monk. If Sweeper is 100, the next level should be 85 or 80. Not 95, not 90.
    I agree. YG and GJ are a level ahead of the other Greats. In a sense, there is also the Elite 4 of the Trilogy Greats who are YG, GJ, ZWJ, Z3F. In addition, in HSDS, JY stated directly that these 4 have near internals.

    Now, I personally feel that DGSD 4 Elite are = to the Trilogy Great Elites 4. While this group is 5 levels ahead of the ROCH Original Greats.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  6. #46
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    Sweeper Monk LV is not 100...it's unknown. If I have to give him a LV, it'll probably be LV 120, which means he is on par with XF + XZ + DY combined. (30 Lvs above them)

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster
    Sweeper Monk LV is not 100...it's unknown. If I have to give him a LV, it'll probably be LV 120, which means he is on par with XF + XZ + DY combined. (30 Lvs above them)
    Let's say all the ROCH greats are LV75. If that's so, Guo Jing should be 75 as well. (He's at most on par with HYS gang). That means Yang Guo should be 75 as well? (He fought to a draw with Zhou Bo Tong, which again belong to HYS gang)

    I'm pretty sure ZSF has exceeded Guo Jing power (even though he is very very humble) by the time he is 100...100 years of cultivation = godly. And we know ZWJ is as good as ZSF.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster
    Sweeper Monk LV is not 100...it's unknown. If I have to give him a LV, it'll probably be LV 120, which means he is on par with XF + XZ + DY combined. (30 Lvs above them)
    OK, well, you shouldn't lump him with DGKB or Huang Shang or DFBB. He should be above them.

    In fact, people who we never had an actual fight in the novel should not be listed. Or I'll be arguing about Damo and Murong Longcheng and 9 Yang creator.

    People with 3rd hand accounts of actual fighting can arguably be included (e.g. Wang ChongYang.)

  9. #49
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    I mean it's so much easier to have greats at level 100 as the starting point.
    Member of HYS fanclub -> click here to join group.

    Member of TC fanclub.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    The only claim would be that Zhang Sanfeng may exceed the level of Guo Xiang. However we don't know that for sure. And Yang Guo once speculated that Guo Xiang at age 70 could attain Reverend Yideng's level, which is around Zhang Sanfeng's level.
    For Guo Xiang to be able to reach Yideng's level when she was 70, to me, instead of indicating that she was as good as Z3F, rather indicates that Z3F > Yideng.

    If Z3F concentrates on martial arts and becomes as good as Yideng when he was 100 years old and Guo Xiang concentrates on chasing after Yang Guo and becomes as good as Yideng when she's 70, that would seem to indicate Guo Xiang > Z3F. Does anyone really get that impression? No, Z3F is orders of magnitude better.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster
    Let's say all the ROCH greats are LV75. If that's so, Guo Jing should be 75 as well. (He's at most on par with HYS gang). That means Yang Guo should be 75 as well? (He fought to a draw with Zhou Bo Tong, which again belong to HYS gang)

    I'm pretty sure ZSF has exceeded Guo Jing power (even though he is very very humble) by the time he is 100...100 years of cultivation = godly. And we know ZWJ is as good as ZSF.
    Actually, theoritically speaking GJ and YG are a notch above the other Greats.
    YG would have beaten ZBT if the battle had lasted. When YG busted out his ultimate Melancholic Sad Palm, ZBT was having serious trouble. The 4 stances that YG used all gave ZBT serious trouble. And YG wasn't chase attacking. After one stance, he would announce the next, then give another. In other words, ZBT is like given a warning everytime. If YG just kept on attacking, I don't see how ZBT can last forever. As for YG and HYS exchange, JY contradicted himself. YG said that to force Nan Hai Sen Ni's palm out, he would have to go full power. However, during the exchange between HYS and YG, got stronger(didn't YG say that he would go full power? If you're going full power, how come you're energy is getting stronger everytime? I see this as a contradiction). YG would give one, HYS would overwhelm it back, then YG pushes it back again. At a point, HYS felt he couldn't take the energy anymore and therefore referred to Divine Flick to neutralize the energy and stop the exchange. Plz note that because the energy was neutralized, YG couldn't "return" a palm energy unless YG wants to start this whole thing again. In other words, YG's full potential is possibly not seen yet. Plus, in terms of QUANTITY of internal, YG has more than Yideng. Yideng admitted himself that YG has more during the roar of YG. Plus, Yideng is suppose to have the most internal of the original Greats because he has Pre Heaven Skill of WCY. So that would translate to YG having more internal by a notch over the other Greats.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  12. #52
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    I would say that Yang Guo really was going full power, but perhaps he needed to get warmed up first. So that the chi can flow more smoothly or whatever.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2Grey
    For Guo Xiang to be able to reach Yideng's level when she was 70, to me, instead of indicating that she was as good as Z3F, rather indicates that Z3F > Yideng.
    First of all, at the time when Yang Guo said that Guo Xiang could reach Yideng's level, he actually thought that Yideng was MORE POWERFUL than himself -- 杨过只听了他这两句话,心下大为钦服,自叹这位高僧功力浑厚,自己颇有不及

    So it is arguable that Yang Guo meant that Guo Xiang could exceed his own level!

    Also I just checked, Yang Guo didn't specifically say 70 years old. He said when Guo Xiang's hair has turned all gray.

    If Z3F concentrates on martial arts and becomes as good as Yideng when he was 100 years old and Guo Xiang concentrates on chasing after Yang Guo and becomes as good as Yideng when she's 70, that would seem to indicate Guo Xiang > Z3F
    Why is that a strange thing? Just like Yang Guo, Guo Xiang had exposure to SO MUCH excellent martial arts while Zhang Sanfeng only had access to ONE! And Yang Guo reached their level at age 30 something (furthermore Zhang Wuji reached it at 20 something)!! As genius as Zhang Sanfeng may be he was really bound by his limited exposure to great arts (otherwise god knows how much more he would have achieved). Furthermore Zhang Sanfeng kept saying that he learned the least amount of 9 Yang out of him, Guo Xiang, and Wuse. I don't know if he was just being humble.

    In addition, Guo Xiang became enlightened at age 40. Presumably she stayed at Emei entirely afterwards, while I think Zhang Sanfeng roamed the world for fun (while picking up ideas for new martial arts). So we could possibly say that Guo Xiang concentrated on martial arts development more than Zhang Sanfeng.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by WuxiaMaster
    I'm pretty sure ZSF has exceeded Guo Jing power (even though he is very very humble) by the time he is 100...100 years of cultivation = godly. And we know ZWJ is as good as ZSF.
    Nonsense. You state that Zhang Sanfeng has 100 years of cultivation, as your reason for him being better than Guo Jing. But you also admit that Zhang Sanfeng = Zhang Wuji. Zhang Wuji only had about 10% of the cultivation time as Zhang Sanfeng. And yet they are equal. So what does that mean? The amount of time of cultivation doesn't mean a thing. Compare their actual combat performances and feats.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    1) Guo Xiang might have had exposure to many martial arts but at least Yang Guo was sorta decent at them. Guo Xiang kinda sucked at Yiyang Zhi and all the other stuff.

    2) I don't see how Z3F could have less of 9 Yang than Guo Xiang and Wuse. Jue Yuan had been teaching him 9 Yang before the deathbed recital. Before anyone else had heard of 9 Yang ZJB already had more inner power than He Zudao who in turn exceeded all the Shaolin monks in inner power by such an amount that no one dared to challenge him after he performed his feat. Perhaps ZJB got less of 9 Yang from the deathbed recital than the others but surely his previous instruction by JY outweighs that.

    So either Z3F was being humble, his inner power increased at a rate disportionate to his knowledge of 9 Yang, or Guo Xiang and Wuse were truly awesome. I lean towards the first option given that Z3F also thought that he might not be able to defeat Ah San.

    I wouldn't know if one could really say that ZWJ necessarily equals Z3F. ZWJ had more inner power than Z3F, but they can't really be compared since Z3F didn't fight all that much. We do know however that Z3F was insanely talented, that he pwned the Xuan Ming Elder in the most colossal manner, that he beat up on some random Mongolian soldiers without much trouble, and that he tapped the fake Kong Xiang (who was probably near the level of Ah San given how he knew the Diamond Prana Palm) in Sweeper Monk-esque fashion despite being hit by a 100% sneak attack 1 second before that.

    IMHO Z3F had the best technique out of all JY characters and he had inner power similar to that of the Greats.
    Last edited by K2Grey; 08-24-06 at 09:18 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    Instead of ranking the fighters by levels, I personally prefer percentages. This way each individual gets his/her own percentage level, and the readers don't have to suffer through another round of disagreement like "Chongxu is slightly worse than Linghu Chong; the 2 do not belong to the same category."

    So my version would look something like this (taken from the N-TH TIME HOW WOULD YOU RANK THE GREATS topic):

    3. Guo Jing 100%
    4. Yang Guo 95%
    5. Zhou Botong 93%
    6. Golden Wheel Monk 90%
    7. Eastern Heretic Huang Yaoshi 89%
    8. Southern Emperor Yideng 86%
    9. (Central Divinity Wang Chong Yang) 85%
    10. Qiu Qianren 83%
    11. (Lin Chaoying) 70%
    12. Hong Qigong 61%
    13. Ouyang Feng 60%

    p.s. logically speaking, I think that the remaining Greats at the end of ROCH should be able to squash West Poison and Northern Beggar individually.

    From a logical perspective, you'll be right because everyone had 20 extra years on OYF and H7G. However, from JY's perspective, I think he always meant for WCY>4 greats>BWM>QQR. Nothing from what JY wrote shows that he thinks any of the "greats" has surpassed WCY or that QQR can beat any great.

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    Changes: Moved YangGuo to LV78, stated that Ouyang Feng and Hong Qigong is LV75 based on if they had survived till end of ROCH...

    Also added some minor characters and Sword God Zhuo Bu Fan -_-
    Last edited by WuxiaMaster; 08-24-06 at 11:06 PM.

  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2Grey
    2) I don't see how Z3F could have less of 9 Yang than Guo Xiang and Wuse. Jue Yuan had been teaching him 9 Yang before the deathbed recital. Before anyone else had heard of 9 Yang ZJB already had more inner power than He Zudao who in turn exceeded all the Shaolin monks in inner power by such an amount that no one dared to challenge him after he performed his feat. Perhaps ZJB got less of 9 Yang from the deathbed recital than the others but surely his previous instruction by JY outweighs that.

    So either Z3F was being humble, his inner power increased at a rate disportionate to his knowledge of 9 Yang, or Guo Xiang and Wuse were truly awesome. I lean towards the first option given that Z3F also thought that he might not be able to defeat Ah San.
    What is there to be humble about in learning a art? IMO, I think Z3F did get the least amount. 是以少林、峨嵋、武当三派,一个得其‘高’,一个得其‘博’,一个得其‘纯’。三派武功各有所长,但也可说 各有所短。” Guo Xiang with her best memory got the most. Z3F with his lack of experience has the puriest. While Wuse with the best original foundation has the strongest.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  19. #59
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wu Wudi
    From a logical perspective, you'll be right because everyone had 20 extra years on OYF and H7G. However, from JY's perspective, I think he always meant for WCY>4 greats>BWM>QQR. Nothing from what JY wrote shows that he thinks any of the "greats" has surpassed WCY or that QQR can beat any great.
    So which version should we subscribe to? The logical one, or the author-intended one?

    By the way I'm pretty sure Jin Yong NEVER meant 4 Greats to be > Jinlun Guoshi at the end of ROCH. That's why Jin Yong specifically made sure that Jinlun was about ready to get the upper hand against Yideng. Your bias against him is pathetic.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    I think the three junior Evils (Yip 2 Leung, Divine Crocodile, Wan Chung Hok) are ranked too high. These three never struck me as being that powerful.

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