Team Condor v Dongfang Bubai/Shi Potian
Three of the protagonists (Guo Jing, Yang Guo, Zhang Wuji) from the Condor Trilogy against two extraodinary powerful characters of their era outside the Song/Yuan Dynasty.
Which team wins?
Guo Jing, Yang Guo & Zhang Wuji wins
Dongfang Bubai & Shi Potian wins
Team Condor v Dongfang Bubai/Shi Potian
Three of the protagonists (Guo Jing, Yang Guo, Zhang Wuji) from the Condor Trilogy against two extraodinary powerful characters of their era outside the Song/Yuan Dynasty.
Which team wins?
..ext88
SPT seems too strong. I give it to his team. Assuming DFBB don't get any...well you know towards SPT.
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Member of TC fanclub.
SPT can probably take on AT LEAST 2 Greats at the same time, possibly 3. With DfBB into that equation makes SPT+DFBB the clear winner.
法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响,一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚。
此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗。
There is proof to another major shift in reader views. 3 years ago, many readers probably felt that Guo Jing alone can take on the combined forces of Shi Potian and Dongfang Bubai.
忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」
I'd like to see that thread. I can see people thinking GJ can beat SPT or DFBB solo (and I think it might even be possible) but both at the same time? That's enough of a handful that GJ at his absolute best would be lucky to inflict mutual destruction.
I would never compare DGSD, LOCH, ROCH and HSDS martial arts to XKX.....altho they are all by JY, I somehow feel they have a different touch to them....
To be honest...I think Z3 and L4 are prob stronger than the Greats if you really want to compare.....XKX always reminded me of GL more than JY.....
Still searching for my GuGu
Hm.... that is the first time I heard someone comment like this.Originally Posted by R!chard
Do you have any proof why you think so?
I personally feel their masters are a little weaker than the ROCH Greats. Z3 and L4 are about Duan Zhengming level. And Yideng has surpassed that level in LOCH already.
法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响,一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚。
此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗。
Xie Yanke is a guy who exhausted 90% of his internal energy by throwing palm blasts at pine needles in the air. He got into some serious trouble with some troublemakers (who had been watching him for a long time, and apparently he didn't notice at all) after this careless move.
Bai Zizai tried to strike Shi Potian with all his might, and yet after a few minutes he got too tired and needed to be healed by Shi Potian!
These examples show just how amateurish the highest class of Central Plains fighters is in Xiake Xing in comparison to the Greats.
Another case that seemed rather amateurish to me, is how the combined forces of 3 Smiling Proud Wanderer experts failed to touch Dongfang Bubai's clothes even once, and Linghu Chong even had a sword with him. The 3 experts were hollering with anger and making loud noises with their weapon (and still their yelling was all in vain), whereas Dongfang remained calm the whole time. Somehow it's hard for me to picture 3 Greats having experiencing much embarrassment against one Dongfang Bubai. That's why I don't consider the 3 SPW experts to be of Great calibre.
忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」
I don't think you're being fair at all. You're simply making the assumption that DFBB isn't that strong. And you're backing it up by saying you simply don't feel XYZ.
There's enough reason to believe that RWX is at a LOCH Great level in terms of feats, and anyone who could hold off an LOCH Great and two LOCH GJ's (XWT and LHC are likely to be stronger actually) should be considered to be pretty incredible.
So you're saying that XF can throw palm blasts all day and not get tired? I don't think XYK is that strong either (in any case, he should be closer to the level you give him) but you still shouldn't disparage the feat just like that.Xie Yanke is a guy who exhausted 90% of his internal energy by throwing palm blasts at pine needles in the air.
Things haven't been the same since we heard that Sek Por Tin jumped over the ocean...Originally Posted by PJ
So, you can personally imagine 3 Greats (pick any 3 random Greats: Huang Yaoshi, Zhang Sanfeng, Lin Chaoying) having as much trouble against Dongfang Bubai as Linghu Chong and co did?Originally Posted by ChronoReverse
And I don't think DFBB isn't strong. I just don't think he > 3 Greats.
You say there is; others say there isn't.There's enough reason to believe that RWX is at a LOCH Great level in terms of feats
He has been shown to throw palm blasts for up to 200 or 300 stances without deterioating for another half hour or so.So you're saying that XF can throw palm blasts all day and not get tired?
I'm saying that these kind of things--namely recklessly exercising all your internal energy and not notice your enemies approaching; and 3 experts unable to touch a single DFBB--should not happen to the Greats. I for one can't imagine the Greats experiencing these kinds of embarrassments. Of course, that's just my personal "gut feeling" which admittedly doesn't warrant much merit. But I doubt that many readers of the trilogy would be able to picture the Greats having so much trouble with DFBB.
忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」
Sure pick people who are stronger than LOCH Greats. We already know that LHC and XWT is below RWX. Even if we generously assume RWX is ROCH Great level, your example is blatantly biased.
And then there's the comparison of XYK against FREAKING XF. Can you show your bias even more? XYK is strong, but no one is even saying he's Great level. The point is that he isn't that weak either. Besides, all it said was that he did it for a long time pushing himself to the limit just to see how long he could do it. Considering that in the very same paragraph it mentions that he was able to sense people normally from a mile away, it shows how utterly concentrated he was. A long time for a martial artist is several hours.
As for RWX, all you've said is that you don't feel he's that strong, how martial artist don't appear this way and that. How about quantifying it with things RWX can do and compare that with what people have done in the Trilogy? Considering RWX's ability to push through metal armour like butter and smashing ability, he should be close to LOCH level.
As for embarassments, we have Sweeps versus our DGSD Greats and ZWJ against a number of opponents. Then there's young GJ versus the two Greats. GWM versus way too many to list. QQR versus XLN. But frankly these are the most subjective possible assertions to make here.
Ok, before anything, my feel is RWX/ SPW Elite is ~ LOCH Greats.Originally Posted by ChronoReverse
Ok, now to the real stuff. If we are to ASSUME that RWX is ROCH Great level, then that would mean that it would still be relatively close. WXT is described as .5 level below RWX. And we know LHC is about XWT. So though it would be off, it wouldn't be like sky-ground difference off.
法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响,一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚。
此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗。
Zhang Wu Ji draws with Dong Fang Bu Bai
Guo Jing and Yang Guo ownz Shi Po Tian.
GG.
um....
ZWJ drawing with DFBB is understandable.
However... SPT.... he beated 2 fighters slightly below the ROCH Greats without any trouble at all. So I'm not so sure... for YG and GJ.
法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响,一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚。
此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗。
SPT owns all three at once while DFBB gets a manicure
When I said generous, I meant that RWX isn't at that level. He was throwing a comparison of HYS (presumably at ROCH level), LCY, and Z3F when clearly LHC and XWT are at least a level lower. Therefore his example is not a good one.Originally Posted by Whsie
There's even argument by some, not me mind you, that WCY (and by transitivity maybe LCY) was at or above ROCH Great level. Z3F is at least ROCH Great level and is compared with those such as YG and GJ (whom I feel are slightly better than HYS).
My point is that the comparison doesn't really show that three LOCH Greats wouldn't have the same trouble nor does this show that RWX isn't at LOCH Great level either.
I agree with this theory because in every instance, WCY was shown in a superior light to the 4 greats. I think people really put too much emphasis on the power jumps from LOCH to ROCH, from beginning of ROCH to grown up YG period, from pre-16 yrs to post 16 yrs, etc. JY has to use martials arts improvements to make the story more interesting but I don't feel that JY's rankings change based on those supposed improvements or that JY meant for people to use those descriptions of martial arts advancment to rank the greats. The impression that I got from the Novels is that the 4 greats are always meant to be equal, with the exception of that brief period when OYF was stronger than everyone else, and that WCY is above the 4 greats by a significant margin while ZBT is stronger than the 4 greats by a smaller margin. GJ and YG are meant to be even more impressive talents than the 4greats+ZBT because they reached such great power at much earlier ages. I know that my ranking method is very different from many people here but personally I think JY would agree more with my ranking than those rankings that are based on interpretation of the literature on the most literal level. I just don't see JY agreeing with the logic that leads people to conclude that QQR>WCY.Originally Posted by ChronoReverse
I disagree with the WAY you rank WCY. I too think WCY is ranked a bit over the Greats except for YG an GJ IMO. Why?
Well, let's start at the most controversial and most logic filling problem of all- the 1st Hua Shan Tournament. The main aruguement that I used back when I was a non- WCY supporter was that the Greats took 7 day/nights to see who won. If WCY was>>> than a Pre LOCH Great, then it should only take <1 day.
Later, I bought into the WCY a bit over the ROCH Greats because I figured:
JY ORIGINAL intention as in the 1st edition was that WCY was only a bit over the Greats. In the 1st edition LOCH, there was even context that showed that a LOCH H7G has surpassed WCY. Later, JY decided to withdraw that intention, but the problem was that by changing the 7 Day/Night plot device would screw up the whole thing. Even in a "next edition", there can't be a change THAT big! So what can JY do to place the today-intention? JY can, 1. Give WCY Solitary Yang Finger 2. Eliminate any quote about who is > WCY. So that H7G>WCY quote was gone. 3. Give more compliment. Most noticeable was the QZ 7 quote and ZBT quote. 4. And Finally, the biggest way to improve WCY was to let WCY fully understand 9 Yin Manual within 10 days. Even with 1-3, a lot of arguements can be made, but the most critical one is that JY made WCY understand 9 Yin in the 3rd edition. And with that, I feel JY's intention was to make WCY > than the other Greats.
Because of the plot device problem, I see this as one of the few exceptions when JY can't directly change WCY>Greats. So that is why I think JY did 1-4 that I listed. But do notice that since it would be a plot changing problem, this is one of the exceptions where something more author intended can be over logic.
Last edited by Whsie; 08-26-06 at 10:32 PM.
法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响,一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚。
此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗。
And that in turn elevates LCY to around or above ROCH level as well, thus furthering my point about how the comparison wasn't an apt one =D
I have to agree with the assessment about JY's intentions. Considering what was changed, it's clear that he intended to make WCY and LCY even more legendary than they were =/