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Thread: Demi-God Semi-Devils

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by efflix
    The title for this novel is tough- especially since it is already known as demi-gods and semi-devils to lots of people, so changing it might confuse some. Personally, the first time i saw demi-gods and semi-devils i went, huh?? doesn't make much sense to me as a primarily english reader :P

    I would've gone for a slightly more literal translation even though its also slightly awkward, like eight levels of heavenly dragons, or just leave it as "tian long ba bu" that at least makes sense to me in both english and chinese.

    anyone know where the title came from? it doesn't seem to relate to the novel much (at least at this point).
    I mean title of the chapter, my bad

    Read this:
    I am currently doing the title of the chapter and I cannot find an archaic/poetic phrase that goes along the lines of "all is lost" or "it's too late" or "nothing can be done". I've tried 'All is irremediable' but it sounds er-hem. So do try and help, will ya?
    PS. The title DGSD came after the Hong Kong adaptation, if my menory didn't fail me.

  2. #102
    Senior Member efflix's Avatar
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    oops, i must've skimmed over that request the first time I read it.

    I like the phrase "all is lost" actually, its very simple, short and is poetic. if you look on google there's a band named "all is lost". what's the original chinese phrase?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huang Rong
    Thanks for the translation. Pacifian and ani411.
    I know that the readers don't have the right to ask you translators to do this or do that but I really hope you two can finish the chapters about Duan Yu and his crappy lovesickness soon to be able to keep working with the chapters concerning the heroic deeds of Xiao Feng. .

    Many thank once again.
    Xiao Feng makes his first appearance in Chapter 14.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
    Soon ... SOON!

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifian
    As you are doing a continuation of Moin's and my translation, you might have noticed you have to reword some of your terms so as to provide a smoother read for the readers out there. I had also changed the translation of mine 'Talisman of Life and Death' back into 'Life-Death Insignia' as readers might go 'huh?' at the new terms when they were actually used before. So...
    Actually, would prefer the term of Life and Death Talisman, Both CC and i uses it for few chapters of DGSD translations.

    Han Solo

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by efflix
    The title for this novel is tough- especially since it is already known as demi-gods and semi-devils to lots of people, so changing it might confuse some. Personally, the first time i saw demi-gods and semi-devils i went, huh?? doesn't make much sense to me as a primarily english reader :P

    I would've gone for a slightly more literal translation even though its also slightly awkward, like eight levels of heavenly dragons, or just leave it as "tian long ba bu" that at least makes sense to me in both english and chinese.

    anyone know where the title came from? it doesn't seem to relate to the novel much (at least at this point).
    iirc, this title had somehing to do with hinduist-buddhist myth about 8 levels of beings, some of which are demigods and some demons and some mix-and-mash. how the heck this has anything to do with the words tian long ba bu i have no idea it may be that there's another meaning to these 4 characters but to a non-chinese literate person like me that just means plain "eight steps of heavenly dragon".

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    "Tian Long Ba Bu" refers to the eight types of supernatural beings present when the Buddha delivered his Lotus Sutra (I think). Jinyong mentions them in his foreword because Buddhism and/or Buddhist mythology is ostensibly the intellectual framework behind TLBB. I don't think there's a satisfactory way to render the title elegantly in English, but I'd translate it as "Devas & Nagas: The Eight Beings'.

    I note that the phrase "ba bu tian long" appeared in Chapter 100 of 'Journey to the West', which out of the four famous pieces of classic Chinese fiction is surely the one which had the most influence on TLBB. You could even draw parallels between Journey's three major characters and TLBB's brotherhood: e.g. Duan Yu is a bit like Pig, Xuzhu definitely has something of the Sanzang about him, and Xiao Feng - the fearless, unstoppable warrior whose true enemy is bureaucracy (in its many forms) - is not incomparable to Monkey.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by efflix
    oops, i must've skimmed over that request the first time I read it.

    I like the phrase "all is lost" actually, its very simple, short and is poetic. if you look on google there's a band named "all is lost". what's the original chinese phrase?
    Precisely the very reason I couldn't really use 'all is lost' is because that wasn't the real meaning conveyed. It was more towards the lines of 'no alternatives/ideas/remedies are available/useable [to repair the current damage]'

    I could streamline it by omitting some of the words in the chapter: which is sad given that I couldn't provide a close translation for the chapter name.

    The original chinese phrase consists of only two words: 'wu2 ji4' from 'wu2 ji4 ke3 shi1', meaing "no ideas [could be employed]". No it isn't wu2 ji4 from Zhang Wu Ji.

    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo
    Actually, would prefer the term of Life and Death Talisman, Both CC and i uses it for few chapters of DGSD translations.
    Most of the readers who are reading my translation read Moin's translation first (or so I believe), which meant that I had to cater more towards the terms he used so as to avoid confusion, even though I myself slightly favours the term 'Talisman of Life and Death' too.

    Perhaps I could attach a note for everybody who have read your translation to note that 'Life-Death Insignia' would be referred to as the 'Talisman of Life and Death' in your translations. The link between this translation with Moin's is tighter than with yours and CC's (hey, both of your translations are in chapter 39 and 42 ) so you'll understand, wouldn't you?

    And to owbjhx: you're always as informative as ever.
    Last edited by Pacifian; 08-12-07 at 04:13 AM.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by owbjhx
    "Tian Long Ba Bu" refers to the eight types of supernatural beings present when the Buddha delivered his Lotus Sutra (I think). Jinyong mentions them in his foreword because Buddhism and/or Buddhist mythology is ostensibly the intellectual framework behind TLBB. I don't think there's a satisfactory way to render the title elegantly in English, but I'd translate it as "Devas & Nagas: The Eight Beings'.

    I note that the phrase "ba bu tian long" appeared in Chapter 100 of 'Journey to the West', which out of the four famous pieces of classic Chinese fiction is surely the one which had the most influence on TLBB. You could even draw parallels between Journey's three major characters and TLBB's brotherhood: e.g. Duan Yu is a bit like Pig, Xuzhu definitely has something of the Sanzang about him, and Xiao Feng - the fearless, unstoppable warrior whose true enemy is bureaucracy (in its many forms) - is not incomparable to Monkey.
    Very insightful post, thanks!

  9. #109
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    thanks owbjhx! hah, so there was another meaning to those 4 words.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifian
    Precisely the very reason I couldn't really use 'all is lost' is because that wasn't the real meaning conveyed. It was more towards the lines of 'no alternatives/ideas/remedies are available/useable [to repair the current damage]'

    I could streamline it by omitting some of the words in the chapter: which is sad given that I couldn't provide a close translation for the chapter name.

    The original chinese phrase consists of only two words: 'wu2 ji4' from 'wu2 ji4 ke3 shi1', meaing "no ideas [could be employed]". No it isn't wu2 ji4 from Zhang Wu Ji.
    How about 'No other way'?

    D

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    i like"nothing can be done" out of the ones that you suggested. or perhaps "a lack of options"?

  12. #112
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    1. Irreparable: Impossible to repair or rectify (correct)
    2. Futile
    3. Beyond Remedy

    In reading TLBB with regards to Burmese Buddhist Mythology, I get a sense that Xiao Feng was a Naga (Dragon). Dragons in the mythology are powerful, passionate, full of anger once aroused (this last trait certainly identifies Xiao Feng as a dragon).

    Duan Yu compares well to a Deva (Angel) being naive and guileless, lucky and so on.

    Xu Zhu may just be a human. :-)
    Last edited by hhaung; 02-01-07 at 09:39 AM.

  13. #113
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    At long last, I finally decided on 'Futile Regrets of Inordinate Passions'. This is the best I can do (and as you can see, my best isn't much), the meaning implied is only somewhere there. Open to new suggestions, and thanks to all whom have tried to help.

    To hhuang: I won't want give out spoilers, but I don't think Xuzhu is barely *just* a human in the novel where the other protagonists were much less lucky.

  14. #114
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    Hey guys, are you translating from the 2nd or the 3rd edition?

    I was thinking about re-starting where I left off in chapter 41-42. I initially stopped because the 3rd ed came out and felt odd to translate an outdated version (I was using QiQi's 2nd ed).
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifian
    To hhuang: I won't want give out spoilers, but I don't think Xuzhu is barely *just* a human in the novel where the other protagonists were much less lucky.
    I think when JY finally got to the Xu Zhu part, he had already decided to deviate from the original intention of showcasing the 8 different beings, so he didn't make Xu Zhu fit any of the 8 mythical templates.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    Hey guys, are you translating from the 2nd or the 3rd edition?
    I was thinking about re-starting where I left off in chapter 41-42. I initially stopped because the 3rd ed came out and felt odd to translate an outdated version (I was using QiQi's 2nd ed).
    I know it's OT, but if it helps, I'm annotating DGSD (the Facts and Figures) over at Wuxiapedia using the 3rd ed, with the 2nd providing a comparison of the corrections, amendments and changes that JY made.

    HYS
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
    Soon ... SOON!

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    Hey guys, are you translating from the 2nd or the 3rd edition?

    I was thinking about re-starting where I left off in chapter 41-42. I initially stopped because the 3rd ed came out and felt odd to translate an outdated version (I was using QiQi's 2nd ed).
    Cool, Sweeper monk is coming to a thread near you.

    Han Solo

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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    Hey guys, are you translating from the 2nd or the 3rd edition?
    The second one.

    PS. I don't know about ani's, hope hers is consistent with my second edition translation.

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    The nun waved her horsehair whisk and its end made a circle in the air, catching Mu Wanqing’s wrist. Mu Wanqing felt that the strength in the horsehair whisk was really quite great. Next, she was pulled by it and could not help taking a few side-steps before she could steady herself. Mu Wanqing, both anxious and angry, cursed, “You are a nun but you are not afraid of doing this kind of things!”

    When Yun Zhong He first saw the pretty nun, he was delighted and thought, “Today I have been so lucky! I can kill two birds with one stone by capturing both ladies!” However, after he saw the nun fight with the horsehair whisk and how easily she neutralised Mu Wanqing’s fierce attack, he knew that the nun’s martial arts was really not bad and thus, he leapt on the horse’s saddle and observed silently, thinking, “Both ladies are pretty, catching any one of them would be just fine.”

    The nun said angrily, “Young lady, what nonsense are you talking? Who…who are you to him?”

    Mu Wanqing said, “I am Husband Duan’s wife. Quick, let go of him!” The nun froze, and then suddenly smiled, pulling Duan Yu’s ears, she said with a laugh, “Is this true?” Duan Yu replied with a laugh, “It can be true and it can be false.” The nun pinched Duan Yu’s cheek hard and said with a laugh, “Didn’t learn any bit of your father’s martial arts, but learnt all his nonsensical romantic ways. See if I don’t break your leg?” Turning her head, she studied Mu Wanqing and said, “This young lady is really quite pretty but she is too wild and needs to be disciplined.”
    (to be continued)

    Sorry that I have not been translating for quite some time.

    Thank you Pacifian for the comments! And I am also translating the second edition, I think. But is it only the fifth book that is different (the ending)?

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by ani411
    But is it only the fifth book that is different (the ending)?
    The changes in the 3rd edition of DGSD are found throughout all 50 chapters.

    A summarised list of the most significant changes is found here:
    http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon...3rd_ed_changes

    Other (and not necessarily insignificant) changes and amendments of factual error are noted in the various sections of the Facts and Figures of DGSD. Here is an example from: http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon...figures/people
    Gan Baobao: Married Zhong Wanchou in the 6th lunar month during the year of Yi-Mao [乙卯年六月] and gave birth to Zhong Ling six months later (in the 12th lunar month) (Chapter 9, 3rd edition only). In the 2nd edition, the wedding was erroneously written as having taken place in the 5th lunar month during the year of Yi-Wei [乙未年五月], a whole 25 years before Zhong Ling's 2nd edition birth-year of Geng-Shen!

    Zhong Ling: Born during the Chou hour (1.00 a.m. to 3.00 a.m.) on the 5th day of the 12th lunar month in the year of Yi-Mao [乙卯年十二月初五丑时] (Chapter 2, 3rd edition only). In the 2nd edition, she was born in the year of Geng-Shen [庚申年] instead.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
    Soon ... SOON!

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