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Thread: Would Dali have survived the Mongols if Duan Yu was there?

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    Default Would Dali have survived the Mongols if Duan Yu was there?

    As the topic says, let's say that Duan Yu was Emperor of Dali at the time it was historically overrun by the Mongols. Or let's say that Duan Yu was invited to Ling Jiu Gong or something by Xu Zhu and Duan Yu walks through a secret Xiao Yao Pai time travel portal and is transported to Dali during the reign of Duan Zhixing.

    Would Dali have been able to withstand the Mongols if they had Duan Yu on their side?

    On one hand, the Mongol army is too large for one man to obtain military victory in a straightforward fashion against it. And even powerful martial artists such as WCY, HYS, GJ, ZBT, Yideng, and Huang Rong were unable to help their side obtain victory.

    On the other hand, Duan Yu's martial arts were much greater than those of the aforementioned heroes, and the Mongols perhaps would been astonished at his ability to simply pass through largely any normal military force and kill leaders at will, as if he was a warrior sent by Heaven or a demon out of legend.

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    One man is not an army. Eventually, he would have succumbed to fatigue and wounds. I see a thousand spears stuck in Duan Yu's carcass while it is being dragged by a dozen horses.
    [ 空蕩的街景 想找個人放感情 做這種決定 是寂寞與我為鄰...我們的愛情 像你路過的風景 一直在進行 腳步卻從來不會為我而停...給你的愛一直很安靜 來交換你偶爾給的關心 明明是三個人的電影 我卻始終不能有姓名...你說愛像雲 要自在飄浮才美麗 我終於相信 分手的理由有時候很動聽...給你的愛一直很安靜 來交換你偶爾給的關心 明明是三個人的電影 我卻始終不能有姓名... 一直很安靜 ]

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    Senior Member Zhuge Liang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2Grey
    As the topic says, let's say that Duan Yu was Emperor of Dali at the time it was historically overrun by the Mongols. Or let's say that Duan Yu was invited to Ling Jiu Gong or something by Xu Zhu and Duan Yu walks through a secret Xiao Yao Pai time travel portal and is transported to Dali during the reign of Duan Zhixing.

    Would Dali have been able to withstand the Mongols if they had Duan Yu on their side?

    On one hand, the Mongol army is too large for one man to obtain military victory in a straightforward fashion against it. And even powerful martial artists such as WCY, HYS, GJ, ZBT, Yideng, and Huang Rong were unable to help their side obtain victory.

    On the other hand, Duan Yu's martial arts were much greater than those of the aforementioned heroes, and the Mongols perhaps would been astonished at his ability to simply pass through largely any normal military force and kill leaders at will, as if he was a warrior sent by Heaven or a demon out of legend.
    In ROCH, did YG not kill one of the mongol leaders at the end? It didn't stop them for that long.
    TristeCoeur on Lady Yang: Someone needs 2 tell her that when u want 2 save people from being killed, u need to hurry the hell up, not play bull#### music & dance around. Her mission failed big time

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    If all the DSDG characters were to come together, they could probably kill the entire Mongolian army...

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    Banned strife_au's Avatar
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    In ROCH did YG kill Kublai? Cos if so then its bs.

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    Yang Guo killed the Khan before Kublai, not Kublai (Temujin) himself.

    While Yang Guo was able to kill the Mongolian Khan, it's highly unlikely that he could make a habit of these commando raids given how when ZBT, Yideng, HYS, etc. attempted to go past the Mongolian army when they were trying to get into Xiangyang, they were pursued and nearly killed, with ZBT being wounded.

    On the other hand, DY literally went right through an army which was set up in just such a manner as so to prevent martial artists like Xiao Feng from attacking the leader. Could the Mongolians have done any better? And if not, what will happen to their morale once their leadership knows that there is absolutely nothing they can do to prevent their deaths while preserving a semblance of leadership?

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    Hmm...how about asking Xu Zhu to put in the "Life Death Talisman" on the Khan...Heh...

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    Senior Member Guo Xiang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2Grey
    Yang Guo killed the Khan before Kublai, not Kublai (Temujin) himself.
    Kublai isn't Temujin either. Temujin is Genghis Khan, who was long dead before Yang Guo's heroic act.
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    I believe the order of khans go in this way (although some did not accept that others were khan):

    1. Temujin (Chingiz at the end of LOCH)
    2. Ögedei Khan
    3. Töregene Khatun (regent only--a lot of fighting)
    4. Güyük Khan
    5. Oghul Ghaymish (regent again)
    6. Möngke Khan (YG kills him at the end of ROCH)
    7. Kubilai (Kubilai takes over and conquers Song dynasty)

    ** NOte that GJ's andap, Touloi died 6 years after the end of LOCH.

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    When Genghis died, YG was only 1 years old. Then I think Ogeodei ruled for about 17-20 years and that is like the Pre 16 Years ROCH Khan. At Post 16 Years, it during Mongke as Khan. And then there was a fight for the next Khan and this is when the Mongol empire split apart with Khublai taking China and creating the Yuan Empire.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    I wonder if YG was able to capture Mongke Khan and use him as a hostage, would it able to prevent the Mongols from invasion? If Tolui was still around during the time, would he invade XY?
    Last edited by Trien Chieu; 01-08-16 at 06:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    I wonder if YG was able to capture Mongke Khan and use him as a hostage, would it able to prevent the Mongols from invasion? If Tolui was still around during the time, would he invade XY?
    It depends on whether the Song were dumb enough to attack their Mongol allies as they did in RL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    It depends on whether the Song were dumb enough to attack their Mongol allies as they did in RL.
    The Sung attack gave the Mongols a convenient pretext for advancing into the Central Plains, but they didn't really *need* that pretext. Their territorial ambitions did not stop at the Sung border. Even had Sung not initiated hostilities, it was only a matter of time before the Mongols expanded into Sung territories. The provocation only made it happen sooner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    The Sung attack gave the Mongols a convenient pretext for advancing into the Central Plains, but they didn't really *need* that pretext. Their territorial ambitions did not stop at the Sung border. Even had Sung not initiated hostilities, it was only a matter of time before the Mongols expanded into Sung territories. The provocation only made it happen sooner.
    Whatever your expectation of Mongol intentions, the fact remains. The Song and Mongols had an agreement. The Song turned on the Mongols first. Other than taking out the Jin, which the Song were all for, Genghis' conquests were in central Asia, rather than the central plains. Ogedei's chief subordinate general, Subedei, was pushing for a far western expedition, to further what he and Jebe had scouted.

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    The Mongolian population was low back then, why did they need to conquer so much land that they don't need? Why can't they just build up with what they have?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    The Mongolian population was low back then, why did they need to conquer so much land that they don't need? Why can't they just build up with what they have?
    Why did the Song feel the need to betray the Mongols? Why couldn't they have stuck with the agreement that they had made?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    The Mongolian population was low back then, why did they need to conquer so much land that they don't need? Why can't they just build up with what they have?
    As you like old sayings how about these:

    "Those who have the ability deserves all they have".

    "The winner is King"

    and my all time favorite "Might is Right."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    As you like old sayings how about these:

    "Those who have the ability deserves all they have".
    I agree. Those who have the ability to earn deserves what they earned, not by taking from others by force. Doctors deserve higher salary than people work in retail stores.

    "The winner is King"
    Agree but only in fair competitions, not by going after the weak. First place in olympics got old medal, second place got silver and third place got bronze. The rest got nothing.

    and my all time favorite "Might is Right."
    This is not right. This is how society was in ancient days and in current uncivilized barbaric society. In first world countries, there are laws to protect the weaks from the powerful bullies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Trien Chieu View Post
    I agree. Those who have the ability to earn deserves what they earned, not by taking from others by force. Doctors deserve higher salary than people work in retail stores.
    The Mongols and Chinese agreed to divide the Jin empire between them. Each would keep whatever they could take. The Mongols got the bigger share due to putting in more effort in the anti-Jin war. However, the Chinese wanted more than they'd earned, and attacked the Mongols to grab more of a share. Do you agree that the Chinese were at fault for trying to take more than they'd earned, unlike the hardworking Mongols?

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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    The Mongols and Chinese agreed to divide the Jin empire between them. Each would keep whatever they could take. The Mongols got the bigger share due to putting in more effort in the anti-Jin war. However, the Chinese wanted more than they'd earned, and attacked the Mongols to grab more of a share. Do you agree that the Chinese were at fault for trying to take more than they'd earned, unlike the hardworking Mongols?
    The Chinese were at fault for breaking the contract. However, they were both at fault for attacking the Jin and took whatever not belong to them. The Chinese should get back what was belong to them only. They should not take whatever from the Jin. In addition, the Mongols invade numerous other countries that did not do anything to them. It was a crime against humanity on the Mongols parts. Whatever come from unjust actions won't last. Until these days, the Mongolia remains a poor country. All the looting in the past won't last.

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