XL18Z or Sad Palms???

[kyss of the sword]

YG created sad palms from a wide varity of skills, the only skill of the five experts he did not learn were yiyang finger and HL18P. but he did have skills equal to both, toad stance and divine flicking finger. after he created his sad palms, he fought with zhou butong who declared that the best skill is sad palms. . the skills he learned amount to jade maiden skills, QZ skills, toad stance,snake and crane staff, 9yin(partly), reverse 9yin, jade flute swordplay, divine flicking skill, and dugu skills. any of these are equal to HL18P. so is sad palms superior to HL18P?

[Ken Cheng]

East Heretic Wong Yerk See fought against both and judged that they were equal. Good enough for me.

[i_fotted]

I wonder if anyone can learn Sad Palms. Do you must have a sad experience in life to be able to comprehend it? Is it a skill only YG can learn and no one else would be able to understand it?

[CyberMonk]

To truly use sad palms. Don't you have to be sad? Yang Guo at the end was with Little Dragon Girl so did he really have sadness in his life to draw on to make his sad palms that powerful?

[shanghai girls are hot]

HL18P is better cuz u can use it anytime.

[kyss of the sword]

out of all the pervious HL18P practioneers, only the guy who created it, XF, HQG and GJ have mastered it in full. while not every one would have the nessesary quality to practise HL18P, anyone ca learn to be depressed, or anxious as that is the crux.

[Ken Cheng]

out of all the pervious HL18P practioneers, only the guy who created it, XF, HQG and GJ have mastered it in full. while not every one would have the nessesary quality to practise HL18P, anyone ca learn to be depressed, or anxious as that is the crux.

I think the Sad Palms works only for Yeung Gor, nobody else.

[superboy]

YG created sad palms from a wide varity of skills, the only skill of the five experts he did not learn were yiyang finger and HL18P. but he did have skills equal to both, toad stance and divine flicking finger. after he created his sad palms, he fought with zhou butong who declared that the best skill is sad palms. . the skills he learned amount to jade maiden skills, QZ skills, toad stance,snake and crane staff, 9yin(partly), reverse 9yin, jade flute swordplay, divine flicking skill, and dugu skills. any of these are equal to HL18P. so is sad palms superior to HL18P?

HYS commented that only XL18Z can be a match against YG's Sad Palms in terms of raw power. So the Sad Palms are probably around equal to XL18Z. YG's Sad Palms does have more varieties though. However, XL18Z's theory is to use sheer power to out-do all the strange variations of opponents.

[letalforever]

A personal theory i've had, that is that the power of the sad palms increase dramatically depending on the internal power and "level of depression" one has. The statement is based on the fight in the battle for xiangyang, where once yang guo regained the use of his sad palms, he pretty easily swept golden wheel monk away.

previously, yang guo had fought to more or less a draw with HYS and ZBT. golden wheel monk's power was at least equal, if not better,to HYS or ZBT, though his techniques might be lacking slightly.

when yang guo fought with HYS and ZBT, his "sadness" had gradually waned over the time to a significantly lower level than when his first got seperated by xln, still enough for him to unleash his sad palms. However at the battle of xiangyang, after reuniting with xln, and then on the verge of separation again, his "sadness" was awakened to much higher heights than when he fought HYS and ZBT, where he proceeded to sweep away golden wheel monk with considerable ease.

His power was more or less the same when he dueled with HYS,ZBT and golden wheel monk, but the difference here was the "level of sadness", thus my theory =/

sad palms vs dragon palms, both are largely equal but i personally believe the power of sad palms has the potential to burst to higher heights than dragon palms

[i_fotted]

A personal theory i've had, that is that the power of the sad palms increase dramatically depending on the internal power and "level of depression" one has. The statement is based on the fight in the battle for xiangyang, where once yang guo regained the use of his sad palms, he pretty easily swept golden wheel monk away.

previously, yang guo had fought to more or less a draw with HYS and ZBT. golden wheel monk's power was at least equal, if not better,to HYS or ZBT, though his techniques might be lacking slightly.

when yang guo fought with HYS and ZBT, his "sadness" had gradually waned over the time to a significantly lower level than when his first got seperated by xln, still enough for him to unleash his sad palms. However at the battle of xiangyang, after reuniting with xln, and then on the verge of separation again, his "sadness" was awakened to much higher heights than when he fought HYS and ZBT, where he proceeded to sweep away golden wheel monk with considerable ease.

His power was more or less the same when he dueled with HYS,ZBT and golden wheel monk, but the difference here was the "level of sadness", thus my theory =/

sad palms vs dragon palms, both are largely equal but i personally believe the power of sad palms has the potential to burst to higher heights than dragon palms

Since YG's life long dream to be with XLN finally came true, he's obviously a very happy and satisfied man. Hence his Sad Palms are no longer effective? You cant chose to be sad at any time.....

[Exodus]

A personal theory i've had, that is that the power of the sad palms increase dramatically depending on the internal power and "level of depression" one has. The statement is based on the fight in the battle for xiangyang, where once yang guo regained the use of his sad palms, he pretty easily swept golden wheel monk away.

previously, yang guo had fought to more or less a draw with HYS and ZBT. golden wheel monk's power was at least equal, if not better,to HYS or ZBT, though his techniques might be lacking slightly.

when yang guo fought with HYS and ZBT, his "sadness" had gradually waned over the time to a significantly lower level than when his first got seperated by xln, still enough for him to unleash his sad palms. However at the battle of xiangyang, after reuniting with xln, and then on the verge of separation again, his "sadness" was awakened to much higher heights than when he fought HYS and ZBT, where he proceeded to sweep away golden wheel monk with considerable ease.

His power was more or less the same when he dueled with HYS,ZBT and golden wheel monk, but the difference here was the "level of sadness", thus my theory =/

sad palms vs dragon palms, both are largely equal but i personally believe the power of sad palms has the potential to burst to higher heights than dragon palms

My thought exactly

[Candide]

YG's descendants improved the Sad Palms and created the new Emo Palms. powered by great music like Linkin Park, and this technique is especially lethal when used by a teenager...

As HYS observed, both were equal in terms of power, but technically I think the Dragon Subduing Palms would have the lead. You don't have to be dependent on your mood to use it properly.

[Ken Cheng]

And if Hong Lung 18 Palms needs an extra boost, Gwok Jing, at least, can draw that extra power from the 9 Yum Jen Ging.

[superboy]

It's possible, although I do doubt that the Sad Palms can surpass XL18Z's power, the yangest palm technique in wulin. I don't consider it impossible that YG could be able to beat HYS in the long run with his robust energy and Sad Palm's variations. ZBT's martial arts howver, is a bit better then the Greats. Martial Arts wise he isn't inferior to YG, but he is in his 90s. Jin Yong never mentioned YG thinking that his Sad Palms power was lower then it was initially, nor does it seem that YG's love for XLN ever weakened after waiting for 16 years. YG's Sad Palms that strucked GLFW was really fast and gave him a fatal injury. However, I believe that if YG strucked GLFW with XL18Z instead, the result will not be less devastating.

[qiaofeng]

And if Hong Lung 18 Palms needs an extra boost, Gwok Jing, at least, can draw that extra power from the 9 Yum Jen Ging.

yeah and qiaofeng can power his dragon palms into drunken pissed off dragon palms by drinking gallons of wine and going into berzerk mode.

so if depressed sad palms=normal dragon palm, depressed sad pams < drunken pissed off dragon palms, theoretically speaking

[letalforever]

Since YG's life long dream to be with XLN finally came true, he's obviously a very happy and satisfied man. Hence his Sad Palms are no longer effective? You cant chose to be sad at any time.....

Probably, but den again, we're talking about the power of Sad Palms and not Yang Guo's usage of the Sad Palms (dunno if you get me, but the topic is based on the power of Sad Palms, we assume it is fully functioning of course.)

[Ken Cheng]

This is not meant to be yet another slam on Yeung Gor (although you know well that I love to do so), but his final victory over the Golden Wheel Monk probably involved a bit of good fortune as well as great skill and power.

And let me reiterate in case you're still not certain: this is no slam against Yeung Gor. The other four Greats, in the same position, would also have needed the same amount of luck to achieve the same result.

Why do I say this? Yeung Gor ended up defeating the Golden Wheel Monk with just one blow. In the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY, no Great finishes off another Great in a single blow. Only the Super Greats of DGSD such as the Janitor Monk or Hui Juk were capable of that kind of feat. It can happen, however, if the Great on the losing end of the equation is not properly prepared to receive the blow...which can happen in a moment of premature relief or arrogance.

I think that when the Golden Wheel Monk fell to Yeung Gor's Sad Palm, the monk had an inexplicable brain fart. He had a fatal "Cheung Mo Gei" Moment (i.e. an instant where a powerful fighter demonstrates bad fighting judgment, resulting in his defeat). Just before Yeung Gor unleashed his Sad Palm on the Golden Wheel Monk, Yeung Gor was not doing very well in the battle. The upper hand belonged to the Golden Wheel Monk. I think that in relief or arrogance, the Golden Wheel Monk let his guard down just for the briefest of moments...seeing that he held the advantage against a powerful opponent. The Golden Wheel Monk committed one of the cardinal sins of combat: prematurely declaring victory. The monk did not realize that Yeung Gor had one mighty blow left in him, and was unable to react in time when Yeung Gor caught his second wind. Hence, when the Sad Palm strike came, it hit the Golden Wheel Monk with maximum impact. He never saw it coming and could not react in time to defend against it.

All this is speculation, of course, because the story was told from Yeung Gor's point of view and not the Golden Wheel Monk's (we don't really know what the monk was thinking in the closing moments of the fight). Nevertheless, I do believe that the Golden Wheel Monk was caught napping here. Just in case, let me say it again: this would have happened if any of the other Greats had been in the same situation. Making this observation does not belittle Yeung Gor's martial arts or his achievement.

[Yeung Gor]

When YG used Sad Palm against WYS, it was only a couple of days or so before his big reunion with SLN (at least that's what YG believed), so one can assume YG's depression wasn't so deep, but more in the brighter side knowing he'll see her soon. So the power of his Sad Palm vs WYS was not at the higher peaks he can achieve but WYS still commented that Sad Palm power equals that of HL18G. So in theory, Sad Palms' power can potentially go higher than that of HL18G depending on how sad he gets.

[Yeung Gor]

yeah and qiaofeng can power his dragon palms into drunken pissed off dragon palms by drinking gallons of wine and going into berzerk mode.

so if depressed sad palms=normal dragon palm, depressed sad pams < drunken pissed off dragon palms, theoretically speaking

Read my previous post. It's more normal sad palms = normal dragon palm. Grieving Sad Palms > normal dragon palm. Grieving Sad Palms >= drunken pissed off dragon palms.

[Yeung Gor]

This is not meant to be yet another slam on Yeung Gor (although you know well that I love to do so), but his final victory over the Golden Wheel Monk probably involved a bit of good fortune as well as great skill and power.

And let me reiterate in case you're still not certain: this is no slam against Yeung Gor. The other four Greats, in the same position, would also have needed the same amount of luck to achieve the same result.

Why do I say this? Yeung Gor ended up defeating the Golden Wheel Monk with just one blow. In the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY, no Great finishes off another Great in a single blow. Only the Super Greats of DGSD such as the Janitor Monk or Hui Juk were capable of that kind of feat. It can happen, however, if the Great on the losing end of the equation is not properly prepared to receive the blow...which can happen in a moment of premature relief or arrogance.

I think that when the Golden Wheel Monk fell to Yeung Gor's Sad Palm, the monk had an inexplicable brain fart. He had a fatal "Cheung Mo Gei" Moment (i.e. an instant where a powerful fighter demonstrates bad fighting judgment, resulting in his defeat). Just before Yeung Gor unleashed his Sad Palm on the Golden Wheel Monk, Yeung Gor was not doing very well in the battle. The upper hand belonged to the Golden Wheel Monk. I think that in relief or arrogance, the Golden Wheel Monk let his guard down just for the briefest of moments...seeing that he held the advantage against a powerful opponent. The Golden Wheel Monk committed one of the cardinal sins of combat: prematurely declaring victory. The monk did not realize that Yeung Gor had one mighty blow left in him, and was unable to react in time when Yeung Gor caught his second wind. Hence, when the Sad Palm strike came, it hit the Golden Wheel Monk with maximum impact. He never saw it coming and could not react in time to defend against it.

All this is speculation, of course, because the story was told from Yeung Gor's point of view and not the Golden Wheel Monk's (we don't really know what the monk was thinking in the closing moments of the fight). Nevertheless, I do believe that the Golden Wheel Monk was caught napping here. Just in case, let me say it again: this would have happened if any of the other Greats had been in the same situation. Making this observation does not belittle Yeung Gor's martial arts or his achievement.

Hey Ken, if your theory is wrong. You know what you are really saying here right? YG is in the level of Sweeper Monk. haha

Anyways, I think with the experience of GWM, he won't let his guard down esp vs a powerful foe as YG. So I can conclude. YG = Sweeper Monk.