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Thread: Surprising invitees/no-shows at DGSD Shaolin Heroes Conference

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Surprising invitees/no-shows at DGSD Shaolin Heroes Conference

    The Heroes Conference at Shaolin Temple in DGSD was one of the biggest and most important wulin gatherings ever in the Jin Yong universe. It's surprising, however, to look at the list of some of the invitees as well as some of the absentees.

    Surprising Invitees

    1. The Four Evils: Why were these guys invited? Sure, Deun Yin Hing had once been a prince of Dali and was probably one of the top ten martial artists in wulin at the time, but he and his fellow three Evils were considered public menaces in wulin. Moreover, since the legitimate Deun Royal Family (as represented by Deun Jing Tsun and Deun Yu) was also present, wouldn't this be awkward?

    2. Ding Chun Chou and Sing Suk Sect: The Sing Suk Sect was fairly important at the time of DGSD, so maybe they could rate an invitation, but wasn't the Sing Suk Sect also considered a hostile power? Moreover, Ding Chun Chou had had run-ins with Shaolin monks and killed several somewhat prominent Shaolin monks before. Was it really such a good idea to invite him?

    3. Siu Fung and the Khitan Empire: Once upon a time, Kiu Fung was one the most beloved figures in wulin. By the time of the Heroes Conference at Shaolin, however, he had been ousted from his position as Chief of the Beggar's Union and banished by wulin in general. He was still considered a pariah by wulin...regarded as a murderer of his adoptive parents, his teacher, and various wulin people. Moreover, he had become a prominent military leader in the Khitan Empire, which the wulin of the Northern Sung Dynasty considered its greatest enemy. That being the case, why was Siu Fung and his army invited to the conference?

    Surprising Absentees

    1. If Kiu Fung and the Khitan were invited, why not the Hsi Hsia 1 Bun Tong force? They were no more an enemy of the Northern Sung wulin than the Khitan were. If the Khitan were invited, it's difficult to see why the Hsi Hsia were not.

    2. If the Sing Suk Sect got an invitation, why not the Siu Yiu Sect? Having Hui Juk there doesn't really count since he was not widely known to be the Siu Yiu Sect Leader at the time (nor did he officially represent the sect at the conference). His four guardian angels showed up a little later, but they were there to "protect" him (as if), not to represent their sect at the conference in an official capacity. Along with them should have come the 72 Cavedwellers 32 Island Dwellers (I think I've got that backwards), who were affiliated with the Siu Yiu Sect at the time.

    3. Chung Man Sau and the leaders of the Mo Leung Sword Sect whom we saw during Deun Yu's adventures early in the story were no-shows at the Shaolin Conference. These were not particularly powerful wulin personalities, but officially, weren't they much more legitimate than the likes of the Four Great Evils and the Sing Suk Sect? What a snub it would be for Chung Man Sau or the Mo Leung Sect leaders to find out that the Great Evils had been invited to Shaolin for the big Heroes Conference, but they hadn't.

    Some pretty interesting criteria on who got invited and who didn't to this great Heroes Conference.

  2. #2
    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Your first absentee and your first invitee go hand in hand. The Xixia Yiping Tang WAS the Four Evils; Duan Yanqing was a member of the Xixia group. Hence, the invitation, presumably.

    Ding Chunqiu wasn't invited by Shaolin; he effectively gatecrashed.

    No one in Shaolin knew about Xiaoyao Sect.

    Xiao Feng and his riders weren't invited either. They also gatecrashed.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing
    Your first absentee and your first invitee go hand in hand. The Xixia Yiping Tang WAS the Four Evils; Duan Yanqing was a member of the Xixia group. Hence, the invitation, presumably.
    Kind of shows how little Hsi Hsia Kingdom regarded the Chinese wulin at the time, sending four foreign mercenaries rather than any of their official people to represent them at the conference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing
    Ding Chunqiu wasn't invited by Shaolin; he effectively gatecrashed.
    That sounds like him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing
    Xiao Feng and his riders weren't invited either. They also gatecrashed.
    Hmmm. Why did he want to do that? Surely, he understood that he was still persona non grata in wulin and that if he showed up, he'd possibly find himself in a repeat of the Tsui Yin Manor incident.

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    Senior Member resident:alien's Avatar
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    i have not read the part in the novel where XF "crashes" the party. however, in the series adaptation, he told some people from wulin that he was going to be there.

    i assumed this is what happened in that particular chapter...right?

    if so, no, he never received an invitation, rather, he warned them ahead of time that he was coming.

    if he was invited. doh!
    [ 空蕩的街景 想找個人放感情 做這種決定 是寂寞與我為鄰...我們的愛情 像你路過的風景 一直在進行 腳步卻從來不會為我而停...給你的愛一直很安靜 來交換你偶爾給的關心 明明是三個人的電影 我卻始終不能有姓名...你說愛像雲 要自在飄浮才美麗 我終於相信 分手的理由有時候很動聽...給你的愛一直很安靜 來交換你偶爾給的關心 明明是三個人的電影 我卻始終不能有姓名... 一直很安靜 ]

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    XF was in the central plains looking for Ah Zhi. Thats how he ended up in Shaolin.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    XF was in the central plains looking for Ah Zhi. Thats how he ended up in Shaolin.
    Did he have any particular reason to believe that Ah Chi would be there?

    Also, did he consider the consequences of showing up there...with a Khitan army in tow, no less?

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    - A Zi was an active young girl, she liked animated events so the probability of seeing her there was big.
    - A Zi and A Zhu were the most important people to him, so he didn't think of any consequence.

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Also, did he consider the consequences of showing up there...?
    This is Xiao Feng we are talking about!

    In addition, his original intention might not have been to show himself in public (maybe observe on the sides) but the Xing Su Sect insulting the beggars got him mad.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    To CC: There might have been an open invitation to the meeting, so all and sundry could attend it, but since my memory fails me on this point, I'd have to ask for your confirmation. Thanks!
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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi
    To CC: There might have been an open invitation to the meeting, so all and sundry could attend it, but since my memory fails me on this point, I'd have to ask for your confirmation. Thanks!
    IIRC* the whole thing was rigged such that everyone would arrive at the same time regardless of how far they were from Shaolin. Quan Guan Qing did not want Shaolin to have advance warning. So there was no open invitation.

    *I don't have access to the novel now to check.
    Last edited by CC; 09-19-06 at 02:35 AM.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Any reason why Chung Man Sau and the Mo Leung Sword Sect leaders weren't invited to the Shaolin Conference? Was it because they were considered "small change" in wulin?

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Any reason why Chung Man Sau and the Mo Leung Sword Sect leaders weren't invited to the Shaolin Conference? Was it because they were considered "small change" in wulin?
    They were outside mainstream central plains wulin by virtue of their physical location I guess.

    Also, Wu Liang Sect had already ceased to exist. It was part of the 72 cave riff raff gangs shanghai'ed by TSTL by that time. They _probably_ were there when Xu Zhu's gang turned up later.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    They were outside mainstream central plains wulin by virtue of their physical location I guess.
    Ironically, Chung Man Sau, by virtue of being based within the borders of Dali, would have had whatever wulin interests he had represented at Shaolin by the Deun Royal Family he hated so much.

  14. #14
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    It was never stated that DZC received a beggars sect invitation. He might have just been there to see the show or was looking for his son/daughters etc etc.

    Not very proper for a bunch of beggars to invite royalty. Wulin or no wulin rules.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    It was never stated that DZC received a beggars sect invitation. He might have just been there to see the show or was looking for his son/daughters etc etc.

    Not very proper for a bunch of beggars to invite royalty. Wulin or no wulin rules.
    Wasn't Shaolin playing the host, however? I thought Shaolin called the shots on who got invited.

    And if it's a major wulin conference during the DGSD era, the Deun Royal Family should be a shoe-in for an invitation.

  16. #16
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Wasn't Shaolin playing the host, however? I thought Shaolin called the shots on who got invited.

    And if it's a major wulin conference during the DGSD era, the Deun Royal Family should be a shoe-in for an invitation.

    Shaolin didn't know anything in advance about the meet. It was designed to catch them off guard. They only found out when everyone turned up. Just like how Z3F didn't expect a crowd at his birthday bash.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Senior Member junzi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng

    Along with them should have come the 72 Cavedwellers 32 Island Dwellers (I think I've got that backwards), who were affiliated with the Siu Yiu Sect at the time.
    I believe they were the 36, not 32, Island Dwellers.

  18. #18
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    Shaolin didn't know anything in advance about the meet. It was designed to catch them off guard. They only found out when everyone turned up. Just like how Z3F didn't expect a crowd at his birthday bash.

    These wulin folks need to learn how to say "get out" everyone once in a while.

  19. #19
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Kau Mor Tze was at Shaolin shortly before the conference, but left after getting into an altercation with Hui Juk. He was back again a few days later, however, for the Kiu Fung/Mo Yung F'uk/Siu Yeun San/Mo Yung Bok/Janitor Monk showdown. He wasn't there for the conference proper though, was he?

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    Moderator Han Solo's Avatar
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    JMZ was obviously licking his wounds from the fight with XZ and did not attend the Shaolin meet.

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