Does lightness kungfu come with internal power?

[TommyH]

If one has internal power...does that mean he or she also has lightness kungfu?

[frymantis]

i think as with anything, practice is required. With internal power, I am sure one would be faster to react and most likely lighter on their feet, but that doesn't insure lightness kung fu. that is almost, not excatly the same, like a body builder who has a ton of power, but way don't expect them to move fast unless they practice . On the other hand, a sprinter or a long distance runner wouldn't have the same strength of the former without practice.

[TommyH]

In DGSD96 after WYZ transfered all of his internal chi to XZ, XZ could leap really high into the air. Isn't that lightness kungfu?

[Whsie]

to my knowledge, internal helps someone a lot in straight sprint, endurance and that type.
However, in a close room, you would then need the TECHNIQUE of lightness art. And that is where the Bat Lord and XLN would come in.
Remember QQR and XLN? In a straight sprint, XLN's technique and art is not weaker than QQR, but due to the fact that her internal is weaker, she wouldn't have kept up if it weren't for ZBT's help.

[CC]

Think of internal power as the engine and the fuel tank of a car.

Lightness kung-fu is the tyres, the gears, the prop shaft, the suspension and the axles.

[ech33]

lightness kungfu is different than internal energy. to have lightness does not mean u need to have internal energy, and to have internal energy does not mean u need lightness skill.

but if join together, it`ll be beneficial and boosted urself.

[TommyH]

Internal chi and lightness is starting to confuse me now. In adaptions and such when people (like XZ) obtain internal power they could leap really high (example of what lightness kungfu could do).

Then there's skills like LBWB which doesn't require much internal energy. At the time DY learned it I don't think he has much or any internal chi at all.

[HuangYushi]

Then there's skills like LBWB which doesn't require much internal energy.

LBWB requires a lot of internal energy.

From: http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon...s/martial_arts

Graceful Steps Upon the Waves [Ling2 Bo1 Wei Bu4 凌波微步] - .... A high-level martial arts skill that required a person to be very rich in internal strength before it could be practised/learnt. Appended at the end of the Mystical Skill of Northern Darkness [Bei3 Ming2 Shen2 Gong1 北冥神功], so that the practitioner could draw on the internal strength of others and build his own energy reserves up before learning the Graceful Steps Upon the Waves. ... (Chapter 5, DGSD).

At the time DY learned it I don't think he has much or any internal chi at all.

Duan Yu did not have any internal strength at all (Chapter 5, DGSD), but he suffered from the consequences of learning the LBWB without it.

From: http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon...s/martial_arts

Each move made with the Graceful Steps affected the entire body and the energy within. A learner without any foundations in internal strength (such as Duan Yu) could work at the Graceful Steps a step at a time without suffering any untoward consequences, but once the learner became more familiar, the act of taking several steps in an unbroken succession would result in such internal chaos that the limbs would be paralysed immediately. If the steps had been taken at a more rapid pace, an 'infatuation with power' [zou3 huo3 ru4 mo2 走火入魔] would occur, leading to the snapping of the meridians and channels in the body. .... (Chapter 5, DGSD).

[TommyH]

The idea I'm getting from posts so far:

-Internal power brings lightness kungfu but it is not a super elite type of lightness kungfu.
-Internal power allows one to learn lightness kungfu skills.

Anyone to correct me?

[ech33]

more or less, yes it`s correct.

[TommyH]

Could people with quite low internal power (like the 3 lesser evils) learn really high class lightness kungfu like LBWB? Is it even possible to possess elite lightness kungfu with considerably low internal chi?

[kyss of the sword]

http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon...ntry/chapter_5

Although Shi Potian's internal strength was very rich and profound, he had never learnt any techniques of handling the enemy in a face-to-face fight. So when he saw Hua Wanzi's sharp blade coming right at him, he was so alarmed and confused that he turned around immediately and fled! His movements were terribly clumsy, yet amazingly quick because of his highly-refined internal strength. Therefore, he was already several zhang (1 zhang = 10/3 metres) away within the time it took to utter a single *hu*.

Hua Wanzi did not expect him to flee at all. Although his movements looked as ugly as those of a bird flapping its wings in panic, but the extent of his qinggong (qing1 gong1)(3) was clearly something that she had never seen before. The sight stunned her so much that she ended up standing dumbfounded.

Shi Potian knew that he would never be able to clear such a great height regardless of how hard he tried, but the sight of the girl beckoning and the two clan-members watching with their eyes opened wide did not make it possible for him to ask for a ladder with which to scale the wall. Thus, pretending that he was not bothered by the situation, he proceeded to make the jump with both his feet. To his amazement, a burst of energy appeared beneath his soles and propelled him upwards. He did not know where this energy came from, but it sent him right over the wall on to the other side in a light and graceful-looking manner. He did not even need to stop at the top of the wall.
"Good skills!" said the two clan-members loudly in admiration, for the sight took them by surprise.
Then, a *crash* was heard on the other side of the wall, as if something heavy had fallen on to the ground. As it turned out, Shi Potian did not know how to land, so he had taken a tumble. The noise stunned the two clan-members so much that they exchanged enquiring looks. They would never know that their clan-leader had fallen flat on his back in such a clumsy manner despite the exquisite display of the qinggong that they had witnessed.

even without learning advanced ightskill, one can proform feats of lightskill, if the person has enough inner power, but a person with little inner power but great technique can also do the same feats. but the person with great technique but poor inner power can only keep up their feat of lightskill for a relativelly short period, through advanced technique can 'strech' your resource of inner power. (use less inner power when using lightskill technique). in the same way, some one with great inner power but poor technique will use much more inner power to perform the same feats, and the feats may be clumsy in execution.

[TommyH]

http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon...ntry/chapter_5





even without learning advanced ightskill, one can proform feats of lightskill, if the person has enough inner power, but a person with little inner power but great technique can also do the same feats. but the person with great technique but poor inner power can only keep up their feat of lightskill for a relativelly short period, through advanced technique can 'strech' your resource of inner power. (use less inner power when using lightskill technique). in the same way, some one with great inner power but poor technique will use much more inner power to perform the same feats, and the feats may be clumsy in execution.

So could one the level of, let's say QCJ of LOCH, have lightness kungfu the level of Duan Yu (not saying that QCJ is learning LBWB)? What about the level of the Old Blind leader of the 7 freaks?

[kyss of the sword]

old bat is no where close to QQJ. GJ at age 18 was better then all the seven freaks in lightskill and inner power.

[Whsie]

old bat is no where close to QQJ. GJ at age 18 was better then all the seven freaks in lightskill and inner power.

yep. Out of the 7 Old Freak, the 7th one who is the girl and the 2nd one who has all sorts of tricks have the best lightness arts. Later after GJ trained with Mae Yu, both of the Freaks knew that they were inferior in lightness when they tried to follow GJ on top of the mountain to go to train with Mae Yu on another night. They knew that with their lightness art, they can't climb that mountain. Before when GJ was trying to get the Han Xue Horse, everyone knew that they were all inferior to GJ in lightness. In matter of fact, this was the first sign of GJ surpassing the Freaks in lightness art.

[JigSta]

The Bat King in HSDS had great lightness skills, even though he wasn't the most powerful fighter in wulin.

[TommyH]

I think I should restate my question(s):

1) Does GREAT lightness kungfu require GREAT internal power?
2) Does GREAT internal power contain GREAT lightness kungfu?

[kyss of the sword]

high inner power can increase your speed but not nessesarily give you lightskill since lightskill implies agility and balance as well as the ability to change directions suddenly when running. also jumping and climbing walls.
lightskill itself doesn't nessesarily increase inner power, unless it is an inner power based lightskill, in which case using the skill is the same as exercisng your lightskill.

[TommyH]

high inner power can increase your speed but not nessesarily give you lightskill since lightskill implies agility and balance as well as the ability to change directions suddenly when running. also jumping and climbing walls.
lightskill itself doesn't nessesarily increase inner power, unless it is an inner power based lightskill, in which case using the skill is the same as exercisng your lightskill.

I know lightness kungfu doesn't increase one's internal power, it requires internal power. I'm asking if profound lightness kungfu require great internal power.

My second question asks if people like Sweeper Monk have profound lightness kungfu without ever practicing or learning anything. In DGSD after WYZ transfered his internal power to XZ, XZ could leap really high into the air. Is this evidence that internal power does contain lightness kungfu?

To keep these two questions from confusing you please answer in two paragraphs/sections.

[K2Grey]

I'd guess that lightness kungfu is composed of two parts. One consists of how to carry oneself, step, or move one's body in order to achieve the greatest speed, ability to change directions quickly, etc. For example, the technique used by Olympic sprinters could be considered lightness skill, as well as the technique used by marathon runners.

The other part consists of how to channel one's chi in order to achieve the "lightness effect" which manifests itself in being able to run at superhuman speed or jump stories. I would suppose that inner power inherently has a lightness effect, but that it is brought out more efficiently by lightness skill.

So I would suppose that people like Sweeper Monk or Xu Zhu would have the equivalent movement capabilities of people with lesser inner power but profound lightness kungfu.

As for whether profound lightness kungfu requires great inner power, that depends on how it is profound. Whether it is profound in terms of how to move one's inner power around, in which case it would require great internal power, or whether it's profound in very exquisite steps, in which case it wouldn't. It's like how 18 Dragon Subduing Palms is very profound in how the energy is moved around to attack the enemy, so you would need to have great inner power to use this art effectively, since the actual palm movements are not particularly exquisite on their own. But another palm technique might have great fakes and be very deep in terms of changes and how to deal with various moves by the opponent, like Peach Blossom Palms. Such a technique would not need inner power to be effective, but perhaps it might not be able to channel inner power as efficiently as 18 Dragon Subduing Palms.