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Thread: Taoist's martial arts vs Bhuddist's martial arts!

  1. #21
    Senior Member wuyuejin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by munenori View Post
    I'd say that dugu quibai's level of no-sword is very similar to samurai zen.
    Doesn't a samurai ALWAYS use a katana or such? How can his sword arts be comparable to Dugu's no-sword arts?
    日暮乡关何处是?烟波江上使人愁。

  2. #22
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    Spear and bow were much more commonly used if I remember right.
    Reverend Rongku prepared himself.

    Suddenly, he toss his hands and screamed: "I am not human! I am an animal!"

    The crowd startled at such a bizarre beginning to the story.

  3. #23
    Senior Member Snafu3721's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wuyuejin View Post
    Doesn't a samurai ALWAYS use a katana or such? How can his sword arts be comparable to Dugu's no-sword arts?
    I've actually had the fortunate chance to encounter a few real modern descendants of Samurai as well as had discussions with many Japanese martial art practitioners.

    What I've come to interpret is that the samurai fighting philosophy (only talking about their mentality towards swordsmanship) is very Zen in nature. There is the whole "becoming one with the sword so that you ARE a sword" type of stuff.

    There are definitely similarities to Chinese Kung Fu philosophies. One topic we discussed was something like this-- "We are all one. In the universe, there is only energy. You and the opponent are actually as one, just energies of the same source (the emptiness). Hence you must defeat yourself first in order to be able to best the opponent. Once you master yourself, you see that nothing is apart and separate but yet distinct. Like an ocean, everyone is part of the ocean, but also individual water droplets"

    So that kind of stuff makes Samurais very Buddhist/Daoist. And even to some extent, reaching the level of Dugu's "no sword > than sword"

    And to answer the original topic, I believe that at the highest stages all MA is the same. Although that leads to a perplexing question in Jin Yong universe-- "once you reach enlightenment, is your internal chi boundless??"

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2Grey View Post
    Kantian martial arts are superior.
    I prefer Heideggerian martial arts
    明月心跳起來,又回頭,嫣然道,你還要不要我帶上那面具?
    傅紅雪冷道,現在你臉上豈非已經戴上了個面具?

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    Quote Originally Posted by wuyuejin View Post
    Doesn't a samurai ALWAYS use a katana or such? How can his sword arts be comparable to Dugu's no-sword arts?
    Well the highest level a samurai can reach is the level of emptiness or no-sword. You should check out Miyamoto Musashi's Book of the Five Rings. Its samurai zen philosophy and techniques/strategies is eerily similar to Dugu's no-sword arts. It's all about finding the opponent's weakness and disrupting his natural rhythm while at the same time reaching the level where you don't even have to think or strategize about your next stroke, it will happen naturally and automatically. Its like reaching the level of formless-void where you can adapt naturally and be fluid like water.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Jin Yong was influenced by Miyamoto Musashi in his creation of Dugu Qiubai. Even if he wasn't, the sword philosophy is very similar.
    Last edited by munenori; 09-04-08 at 06:13 PM.

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    Did Dugu Quibai ever defeat himself?

  7. #27
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Chen View Post
    Did Dugu Quibai ever defeat himself?
    He would've liked some L/R combat.

  8. #28
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    He would've liked some L/R combat.

    Heh, if both arms use DG9J and insist on offense over defence, there can be only 2 outcomes.

    1.) No movement. Both arms either stay still or swing around without the arms or swords ever touching one another.

    2.) He ends up chopping both his arms off.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  9. #29
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    He should use L/R skill to divide his mind and then engage in imaginary sword fighting like in Hero.
    Reverend Rongku prepared himself.

    Suddenly, he toss his hands and screamed: "I am not human! I am an animal!"

    The crowd startled at such a bizarre beginning to the story.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    Heh, if both arms use DG9J and insist on offense over defence, there can be only 2 outcomes.

    1.) No movement. Both arms either stay still or swing around without the arms or swords ever touching one another.

    2.) He ends up chopping both his arms off.
    MUHAHAHA

    I often wonder about the sanity of a man living alone with a condor companion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
    Troll Control

  11. #31
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    Well, the most powerful Taoist would be Zhang 3 Feng right?

    I don't think he can beat the Janitor Monk.

  12. #32
    Senior Member Dirt's Avatar
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    I would argue that Xiao Yao Pai were Daoist martial arts.

    And the strongest Daoist Priest is WCY, never having been defeated in kung fu in his life. ZSF's neidan Daoism is in WCY's tradition. I think having WCY be beaten in drinking by the Buddhist/Daoist/Confucianist was to make that connection.
    Last edited by Dirt; 03-03-10 at 11:15 AM.

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    can zhang san feng beat wang chong yang??

  14. #34
    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackattack View Post
    can zhang san feng beat wang chong yang??
    WCY was better than the rest of the Greats during the first Sword tournament. But at the end of ROCH, the Greats had improved greatly. It is speculated that they had surpassed WCY by that time. Z3F is regarded as equal to the ROCH greats. So IMHO, yes, by far.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

  15. #35
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    By far? I don't quite agree. I think ROCH Greats achieved equal ability as WCY during their corresponding ages at best. When ROCH Greats passed WCY's dying age, they slowed their improvement due to age.

  16. #36
    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    By far? I don't quite agree. I think ROCH Greats achieved equal ability as WCY during their corresponding ages at best. When ROCH Greats passed WCY's dying age, they slowed their improvement due to age.
    I dont disagree with you, but when comparing characters, we benchmark them at their peak. The ROCH greats and Z3F peaked at a very old age. So a 100 year old Z3F would be better than a 70(?) year old WCY.

    Z3F and 4 Greats achieve Greatness the normal way and surpass a LOCH WCY great some time during ROCH.

    Z3F with energy saving taichi would win over WCY (as would the rest of the ROCH greats). And IMHO, by far.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

  17. #37
    Senior Member flamer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnhHung View Post
    I dont disagree with you, but when comparing characters, we benchmark them at their peak. The ROCH greats and Z3F peaked at a very old age. So a 100 year old Z3F would be better than a 70(?) year old WCY.
    True. The peak is hard to ascertain though. I'm not entirely convinced that distinct, significantly different levels of Great level exist throughout LOCH and ROCH.

  18. #38
    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flamer View Post
    True. The peak is hard to ascertain though. I'm not entirely convinced that distinct, significantly different levels of Great level exist throughout LOCH and ROCH.
    Thats a topic for a another thread.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnhHung View Post
    Thats a topic for a another thread.
    Indeed. And I'm not really in the mood for another massive discussion on this topic .

  20. #40
    Senior Member Dirt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AnhHung View Post
    Z3F with energy saving taichi would win over WCY (as would the rest of the ROCH greats). And IMHO, by far.
    Xian Tian Gong was also an energy saver.

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