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Thread: Gwok Jing vs. Chow Bak Tung at two different points of ROCH

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Gwok Jing vs. Chow Bak Tung at two different points of ROCH

    Gwok Jing and Chow Bak Tung during ROCH are often used as benchmarks for measuring the skills of other Greats-level fighters in ROCH, but they've seldom been compared to each other (very likely because they have very similar skill sets). Who would have held the advantage had Gwok Jing and Chow Bak Tung fought against each other at these two junctures of ROCH:

    1. During the Heroes' Conference at Luk Family Manor in Dai Sing Kwan.

    2. At the end of ROCH.

    NOTE: let's leave Yeung Gor out of this, except as a benchmark by which Chow Bak Tung's martial arts can be measured.

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    I don't think ZBT mastered 9 Yin like Guo Jing, surely by now GJ would have caught up in inner power.

    And I think GJ's mutant 18 Dragon Subduing Palms is at least as good as ZBT's Demon Subduing Fist + Vacant Fist L/R combo.

    GJ is much younger than ZBT. I say GJ is disadvantaged on no fronts and has a big advantage on this one.

    So GJ by standing striking in the 8th round.

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    I think it would be a case similiar to how ZBT fought YG.
    YG ultimately had the advantage due to the old age factor that ZBT became tired after an hour.
    Similiarly, GJ would probably have the advantage after about an hour.
    If it was straight head on fight, GJ would still probably win in the end, but barely.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2Grey
    And I think GJ's mutant 18 Dragon Subduing Palms is at least as good as ZBT's Demon Subduing Fist + Vacant Fist L/R combo.
    Not to mention that Gwok Jing also had those two skills of Chow Bak Tung, but Chow Bak Tung certainly did not have the Hong Lung 18 Palms (modified or otherwise).

    Chow Bak Tung did have several decades of experience over Gwok Jing (although judging from Chow's performance against Yeung Gor, that doesn't really count for much) and utter unpredictability in the way he fights (because of his personality).

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    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ROCH 2nd Ch. 40
    各人听了,都是一怔,说到武功之强,黄药师、一灯都自知尚逊周伯通三分,所以一直不提他的名字,只是和他开开玩笑,想逗得他发起急来,引为一乐
    according to the text online it says roughly that Huang Yaoshi, Yideng, etc knew in terms of martial arts, they were weaker than Zhou Botong by a few "percents"(?).

    does the etc include GJ & YG?

    would that mean ZBT is the best in ROCH?
    Last edited by Ren Ying Ying; 07-08-08 at 05:04 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Ying Ying View Post
    would that mean ZBT is the best in ROCH?
    He probably was at one point...maybe even up until the sixteen year interlude began. But the friendly duel with Yeung Gor seemed to indicate that in the post-sixteen year period, Chow was on a downward arc. His internal power growth was no longer outpacing the slowing of his reflexes and diminishment of his stamina due to advanced age. I don't think he necessarily lacked for sophistication of techniques or raw power against the younger Yeung Gor or Gwok Jing, but those two's relative youth would mean that they would outlast Chow in a battle of sheer attrition.

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    Senior Member Exodus's Avatar
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    at period 1 I think ZBT would beat GJ but by the end of ROCH GJ would win

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    2. At the end of ROCH.
    Did this happen?

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChanceEncounter View Post
    Did this happen?
    No. Gwok Jing and Chow Bak Tung are not known to have ever sparred against one another during ROCH, which is why this question is posed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    No. Gwok Jing and Chow Bak Tung are not known to have ever sparred against one another during ROCH, which is why this question is posed.
    That's what I thought.

    At the end of ROCH though, I believe GJ would have the upperhand. While ZBT's Vacant Fist was said to be roughly equal in power to GJ's XL18Z, GJ simply has more trump cards (a complete understanding of 9Yin, better stamina, and an appreciable understanding of ZBT's martial arts). Meanwhile, many of the things that make ZBT particularly strong (his unorthodox style and his L/R technique), GJ already knows about.

    But just like the fight with YG, I don't believe it would be over any time soon. GJ would have to win in a battle of attrition.

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Sorry Ken. I am not touching this thread with a ten-foot pole. Why? Because the only yardstick of Zhou Botong's ability was his fights with JLGS and YG...which means the process of determining how Zhou Botong matches up with Guo Jing quite literally will be forced to include a GJ vs YG debate
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    Senior Member ChanceEncounter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    Sorry Ken. I am not touching this thread with a ten-foot pole. Why? Because the only yardstick of Zhou Botong's ability was his fights with JLGS and YG...which means the process of determining how Zhou Botong matches up with Guo Jing quite literally will be forced to include a GJ vs YG debate
    Well, to be fair, that would only be necessary if you think ZBT > GJ.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    He probably was at one point...maybe even up until the sixteen year interlude began. But the friendly duel with Yeung Gor seemed to indicate that in the post-sixteen year period, Chow was on a downward arc. His internal power growth was no longer outpacing the slowing of his reflexes and diminishment of his stamina due to advanced age. I don't think he necessarily lacked for sophistication of techniques or raw power against the younger Yeung Gor or Gwok Jing, but those two's relative youth would mean that they would outlast Chow in a battle of sheer attrition.
    The text is from the absolute end of ROCH on Mt. Hua. ZBT just very well might be the best of all in ROCH. Besides, I don't think he was serious in his fight against Yang Guo.

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    I'm going by the translation here, but doesn't the text just imply that Zhou Botong is the most enlightened of them all, rather than the best martial artist? Ie. they were teasing him about the central position of the new Greats, but he didn't catch on at all, and wasn't offended or slighted at all, happily going along with either Huang Rong or Xiao Longnu as the new Centre. This amazed them all, as they expected ZBT to put up some argument at least. Upon this, Huang Yaoshi said that none of them could compare with Zhou Botong despite their own detachment from the world, and settled on the Central Urchin.

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    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    the texts says that Huang Yaoshi, Yideng, etc ( i assume the etc will refer to GJ & YG...) knew that in terms of martial arts, they were weaker than ZBT by a few "percents (or whatever the translation for "fen" is).

    this was stated at the end of ROCH in the 2nd edition. i got the text online, so it could be typoes online, too. If anyone can, please check for me. tkx .

    therefore, if HYS & YD's & etc's thinking is assumed to be correct, then ZBT> both HYS & YD at the very least. Of course, if you wanted to, you can always try to debate who's included in the "etc" category or whether HYS & YD were thinking wrong. no one will try to put a blade to your neck and force you to believe so
    Last edited by Ren Ying Ying; 07-08-08 at 05:06 PM.

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    Huang Yaoshi and Yideng, maybe. Guo Jing and Yang Guo, I doubt it. Even using his normal palms, Yang Guo was handily defeating JLGS, who was giving Zhou Botong a LOT of trouble; Zhou Botong was forced to fight in a totally defensive manner, and it was specfically stated in the book that him fighting in such a way could only ensure that he would not be defeated, but would completely preclude him from achieving victory either.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    Huang Yaoshi and Yideng, maybe. Guo Jing and Yang Guo, I doubt it. Even using his normal palms, Yang Guo was handily defeating JLGS, who was giving Zhou Botong a LOT of trouble; Zhou Botong was forced to fight in a totally defensive manner, and it was specfically stated in the book that him fighting in such a way could only ensure that he would not be defeated, but would completely preclude him from achieving victory either.
    I don't think JLGS was giving a lot of trouble to Zhou Botong. His vacant fist rendered JLGS powerful strikes useless and it was a dead draw with an advantage to Zhou Botong because he's conserving energy while JLGS would eventually used up his internal energy if the fight prolongs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shortsight View Post
    I don't think JLGS was giving a lot of trouble to Zhou Botong. His vacant fist rendered JLGS powerful strikes useless and it was a dead draw with an advantage to Zhou Botong because he's conserving energy while JLGS would eventually used up his internal energy if the fight prolongs.
    Not really; that assumes JLGS will just sit there and throw out full power attacks and have them dissolved for a long time. Also, the novel specifically stated that while using KMQ, Zhou Botong would have no chance of actually harming JLGS. And, as another reminder, JLGS still had his wheels with him as well. I'd like to see ZBT use Kongmingquan on that!

    Either way, Yang Guo definitely performed better than Zhou Botong when both fought JLGS.
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    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    Huang Yaoshi and Yideng, maybe. Guo Jing and Yang Guo, I doubt it. Even using his normal palms, Yang Guo was handily defeating JLGS, who was giving Zhou Botong a LOT of trouble; Zhou Botong was forced to fight in a totally defensive manner, and it was specfically stated in the book that him fighting in such a way could only ensure that he would not be defeated, but would completely preclude him from achieving victory either.
    then the question is, who is/are "deng(等)" refering to? i doubt it was aimed at Huang Rong/Little Dragon Girl since they are most likely more than a few "percents" weaker than ZBT.

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    i never heard of older = decrease in martial arts in wuxia. i thouht the older u are, the more internal energy + wiser + experience u get, so the better u get. ZBT wins here!
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