View Poll Results: So did Zhang Wuji surpassed Zhang Sanfeng in terms of martial arts?

Voters
65. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    18 27.69%
  • No

    47 72.31%
Page 1 of 5 12345 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 92

Thread: So did Zhang Wuji surpassed Zhang Sanfeng in terms of martial arts?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    LOHAH - Land of Honour & Happiness
    Posts
    2,405

    Default So did Zhang Wuji surpassed Zhang Sanfeng in terms of martial arts?

    So did Zhang Wuji surpassed Zhang Sanfeng in terms of martial arts?
    ..ext88

  2. #2
    Senior Member Zhuge Liang's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    864

    Default

    There is no evidence of it. I think that since ZWJ left wulin with ZM at the end, he may not have practiced as much and probably would not be able to reach ZSF's level.
    TristeCoeur on Lady Yang: Someone needs 2 tell her that when u want 2 save people from being killed, u need to hurry the hell up, not play bull#### music & dance around. Her mission failed big time

  3. #3
    Senior Member endo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    SeaTown
    Posts
    215

    Default

    potentially....he can surpass Z3F in terms of martial arts.

    ZWJ had all of the following: 9YANG, 9YIN, Persian Martial Arts, QKDNY, Taichi Fists and Sword, 7Damaging Fist, Dragon Claw and basically anything thing that he can get a visual on, he should be able to replicate (as he did that at the battle of Brightness Peak when he replicated Shaolin's Dragon Claw to perfection)

    i say potentially because the story ended and never really elaborated on whether or not he surpassed Z3F but you also can't say he definitely didn't....we just dont know since the story ended.
    Last edited by endo; 10-10-06 at 01:29 PM.
    "my only fear of death is reincarnation...back into this life of strife" - 2pac

  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    2,375

    Default

    I agree with endo.
    I love sleep. My life has the tendency to fall apart when I'm awake, you know? -Ernest Hemingway

  5. #5
    Senior Member Surferket's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    2,484

    Default

    ZWJ too busy playing hanky panky to practice his martial arts. ZSF has been celibate since his early adult days and spend all his time and energy perfecting his Tai Chi.

  6. #6
    Senior Member Ardor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    New Zealand right now...
    Posts
    687

    Default

    Nope. Since JY has a bias towards real historical figures once he brands them as "Great".
    Burying his Dugu 9 Jian manual under an epitaph, Dugu Qiubai felt he has left his legacy for the next generation. He then moved to Shaolin to study Buddhism, sweep floors and tap elite fighters.

  7. #7
    Senior Member kwekmh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Central Plains
    Posts
    760

    Default

    He can if he fully masters 9Yin.

  8. #8
    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    771

    Default

    Are we talking about figthing abilities, knowlegde of MA or number of MA mastered?
    Figthing abilities, I would say Z3F slightly over ZWJ because of his experience.
    Knowlegde of MA, Z3F above all, even SM.
    Number of MA mastered, ZWJ has more potential, but Z3F could just create new ones.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

  9. #9
    Senior Member SkineePanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    854

    Default

    I say yes. But it's different. Z3F is a great creator, innovator while ZWJ is simply a great practitioner.
    Underneath the fluffly, cudly exterior lies the tormented and complex creature known as the panda.

  10. #10
    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    771

    Default

    ZWJ ~ Z3F as MA practitioner. Imagen what Z3F could do if he had QKDY (plus his knowlegde in MA).
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

  11. #11
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    23,018

    Default

    Not during HSDS. Cheung Mo Gei was far ahead of any other CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY Great at the age of twenty-five, however. No CONDOR TRILOGY Great was at Cheung Mo Gei's level at age twenty-five.

  12. #12
    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    771

    Default

    Agree. How about ZWJ at 25 and a great at 50-60s?
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

  13. #13
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    23,018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AnhHung
    Agree. How about ZWJ at 25 and a great at 50-60s?
    Power wise, comparable, but the Greats of L/ROCH would have greater experience and might take advantage of him there.

  14. #14
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    360

    Default

    kung fu's level of zhang 3 feng at the age of about 80 was only equal to that of zhang wuji at the age of 2x.
    so when a few years went by, zhang wuji would PROBABLY be more powerful than zhang 3 feng.

    among jinyong universe's elite fighters, zwj was the only one who reached such summit of kungfu skills at the age of 2x without receiving inner energy from others or eating freak things such as poisonous snakes, silkworm and the like (like Yang Guo, YTZ, Duan Yu,... etc. did). his great level of kung fu only came from TRAINING.
    Last edited by RongYingMin; 10-10-06 at 04:50 AM.

  15. #15
    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    771

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by RongYingMin
    kung fu's level of zhang 3 feng at the age of about 80 was only equal to that of zhang wuji at the age of 2x.
    so MAYBE when a few years went by, zhang wuji would more powerful than zhang 3 feng.

    among jinyong universe's elite fighters, zwj was the only one who reached such summit of his kungfu skills without getting inner energy from other or eating freak things such as poisonous snakes or silkworm and the like (like Yang Guo, YTZ, Duan Yu,... etc. did). his great level of king fu only came from TRAINING.
    Not quite, he did get help from the universial bag he was trapped in. But he is the only one that manage without a sifu. You could say that the bag supstitute for a teacher, then he still come out better than the freaks who eats things or suck inner power of others.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

  16. #16
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    23,018

    Default

    Cheung Mo Gei at twenty-five was as powerful as any Great at his peak, but he was a bit deficient in his fighting skills. It wasn't so apparent because the combination of his 9 Yeung Jen Ging inner power and the Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee allowed him to "cheat" a bit and mimic his weaker opponents' martial arts, but Cheung Mo Gei was very limited in his actual fighting skill. Tai Chi Sword and Tai Chi Fist were the only real fighting skills that he had, and although they were great skills, he hadn't practiced them for very long. Cheung Mo Gei did look like Superman in HSDS, but we shouldn't forget that he did not fight another Greats-level fighter in the story. The Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee tricks that served him so well against his enemies in HSDS might not be so effective against a Wong Chung Yeung, a Gwok Jing, or a Yeung Gor.

  17. #17
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    360

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AnhHung
    Not quite, he did get help from the universial bag he was trapped in. But he is the only one that manage without a sifu. You could say that the bag supstitute for a teacher, then he still come out better than the freaks who eats things or suck inner power of others.
    in comparision with the other greats, i would still say that zhang wuji was the only one who got almost everything by his own efforts.
    the universal bag certainly helped him quite much but without it, i think he would still be able to break through the "entrance of life and death", connecting "ren du" 2 pulses by using 9 yang shengong.
    over all, universal bag's advantages couldn't compare to the freak things and strong inner energy streams that others got.

  18. #18
    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    771

    Default

    The deteriorating theory does not only apply to MA skills, but also to the number of great figthers. There were only 2 great level single fighters in HSDS, but the two elders are IMHO just belove one great. And the three Du monks combined is at one great level. ZWJ defeated the elders "easely" when he really wanted to. The last fight with the monks, ZWJ showed good figthing strategy when he didnt try to win "fair". So i believe that he would do fine against a great, skills wise and figthing strategy wise. He might not win, but he is no pushover.

    I agree that ZWJ lack great attacking skills, if you dont count Dragon claw and 7 Hurt fist. These skills were not "his", although he mastered them. Dragon claw is flawless, and would be a difficult obstacle for any one.
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

  19. #19
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Posts
    360

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    It wasn't so apparent because the combination of his 9 Yeung Jen Ging inner power and the Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee allowed him to "cheat" a bit and mimic his weaker opponents' martial arts, but Cheung Mo Gei was very limited in his actual fighting skill. Tai Chi Sword and Tai Chi Fist were the only real fighting skills that he had, and although they were great skills, he hadn't practiced them for very long. Cheung Mo Gei did look like Superman in HSDS, but we shouldn't forget that he did not fight another Greats-level fighter in the story. The Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee tricks that served him so well against his enemies in HSDS might not be so effective against a Wong Chung Yeung, a Gwok Jing, or a Yeung Gor.
    I don't agree with you, Senior Master Ken Cheng.
    - Using 9Yang Shen Gong and QKDNY can't be called "CHEAT", they're REAL fingting techniques. To a certain extent, QKDNY's essence is rather like Tai Chi Fist's - "using enemy's force to counter-attack him".
    - He did NOT fight a great-level fighter but he DID fight 3 close-to-great fighters' formation.
    - He used QKDNY, Taichi techniques and Persian Ming Cult's techniques to overcome Zhou Zhiruo's 9 Yin techniques, so it wouldn't matter if he had fights with Guo Jing, Yang Guo and others.
    Last edited by RongYingMin; 10-10-06 at 05:32 AM.

  20. #20
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    23,018

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by AnhHung
    The deteriorating theory does not only apply to MA skills, but also to the number of great figthers. There were only 2 great level single fighters in HSDS, but the two elders are IMHO just belove one great. And the three Du monks combined is at one great level. ZWJ defeated the elders "easely" when he really wanted to. The last fight with the monks, ZWJ showed good figthing strategy when he didnt try to win "fair". So i believe that he would do fine against a great, skills wise and figthing strategy wise. He might not win, but he is no pushover.
    I think in practice, it's probably more difficult to defeat an actual Great (as a single person) than several sub-Great fighters who use a special formation to equal a Great (a la the Dao Generation Shaolin Elders and the Cheun Jen 7 Disciples). Because of their reliance on multiple individuals working in a coordinated manner, formations are vulnerable in ways that individuals are not. How many times did the 7 Stars Big Dipper Formation get short-circuited by one mishap or another? Such problems wouldn't happen if you just had one individual being a Greats-level martial artist by himself.

    These formations are very good when you need to go up against a Great and you don't have many choices, but it wouldn't be my preferred way of fighting.

    Quote Originally Posted by AnhHung
    I agree that ZWJ lack great attacking skills, if you dont count Dragon claw and 7 Hurt fist. These skills were not "his", although he mastered them. Dragon claw is flawless, and would be a difficult obstacle for any one.
    It'd be interesting to see what Cheung Mo Gei would do if he found himself up against Gwok Jing's Hong Lung 18 Palms or Yeung Gor's Sad Palms. He *might* try to take their strikes head on and hope that his 9 Yeung inner power can safely disperse the power of their blows, but that's risky (because Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor's inner power were each comparable to Cheung Mo Gei's). He might also try dispersing the force of the blows with Tai Chi Fist, but it'd be a heck of a lot harder than it was against Ah 2 and Ah 3.

Similar Threads

  1. Guo Jing/Yang Guo v Zhang Sanfeng/Zhang Wuji
    By Extremer88 in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 154
    Last Post: 02-13-18, 11:14 AM
  2. Replies: 10
    Last Post: 03-17-11, 09:41 PM
  3. Replies: 79
    Last Post: 03-21-10, 08:44 PM
  4. He Zudao vs Zhang Sanfeng in terms of overall talent.
    By Huang Rong in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 21
    Last Post: 02-16-07, 10:12 PM
  5. Dugu Qiubai vs Zhang Sanfeng: Martial Theory
    By Dennis Chen in forum Wuxia Fiction
    Replies: 59
    Last Post: 11-24-06, 02:07 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •