Where did Yau Tan Tze learn actual fighting *techniques* from?

[Ken Cheng]

After Yau Tan Tze learned the Yik Gun Ging/Yoga, he became an inner power dynamo (not unlike Cheung Mo Gei or Hui Juk, although definitely weaker than the latter). Still, also like the early Cheung Mo Gei or Hui Juk, Yau Tan Tze didn't have much in the way of actual fighting skills. Cheung Mo Gei was able to eventually overcome this by mastering the Keen Kwun Dai Loi Yee (enabling to crib the skills of the masters he went up against) and receiving a few months' of instruction from Cheung 3 Fung, and Hui Juk eventually learned up actual martial arts fighting skills from the manuals left at Ling Jau Palace. I don't think Yau Tan Tze had any similar resources for learning any actual fighting techniques, however (he certainly didn't learn much from his father and uncle when they were still alive). Nevertheless, Yau Tan Tze was able to put up a pretty good fight against Kiu Fung at the Shaolin Temple. To do that, he would need at least some fighting skill to go with his tremendous inner power. Where did he get it from?

[Ardor]

The 2nd most hated little witch in wuxia Ah Zi, taught him.

[Ken Cheng]

The 2nd most hated little witch in wuxia Ah Zi, taught him.

Ah Chi didn't have much in the way of great fighting techniques herself. Her fighting techniques were so so. Even with Yau Tan Tze's inner power backing them, they wouldn't be particularly great.

[Ardor]

Ah Chi didn't have much in the way of great fighting techniques herself. Her fighting techniques were so so. Even with Yau Tan Tze's inner power backing them, they wouldn't be particularly great.

Which is why YTZ was not a very effective fighter. DCQ might have taught him a move or two, but those will not be enough as well. It's like Yang Guo's Sad Palms, if you power random movements with insane internal energy, it is just as powerful as effective techniques with effective use of internal energy, just make sure you have a LARGE supply of internal energy. YTZ's external was not as ingenious as YG's but the raw power powering the moves make it capable of clashing with better techniques.

[CC]

The answers are in the translations for chapter 40-42.

He spent about half a year with Ah Zi. The Xiao Yao techniques which Ah Zi taught him required immense inner power, which was why Ah Zi sucked at it but they were perfect for YTZ.

The YJJ also gave him unnatural reflexes. In a sense its like formlessness, his body can react subconciously to attacks. I am not sure if that line was removed in 3rd ed.

[TommyH]

The YJJ also gave him unnatural reflexes. In a sense its like formlessness, his body can react subconciously to attacks. I am not sure if that line was removed in 3rd ed.

I thought he learned Yoga.


Yes YTZ's martial arts technique probably came from Ah Zhi. Ah Zhi's martial arts technique came from DCQ. DCQ's martial arts technique came from Wuyazi. Wuyazi's martial arts technique came from Xiao Yao Pai. So therefore YTZ is unofficially a Xiao Yao Pai student and WYZ's great-grand disciple.

[Whsie]

it's directly mentioned that the reason why YTZ wasn't able to match up with XF was because his technique sucked big time in comparision to the Great XL28Z.
Here is the quote: 游坦之所长者乃是冰蚕寒毒和易筋经内功，拳脚上功夫全是学自阿紫，那是稀松平常之极，

[kyss of the sword]

After You Tan Zhi had allied with Quan Guan Qing, he had naively let Quan find out about his background only after a couple of days. Quan saw that You Tan Zhi's inner power was matchless but his fighting techniques were non-existent, rendering him useless, thus he hatched a plot. He told Ah Zi that You Tan Zhi's kung fu was unmatched and invincible, and asked Ah Zi to show him her Xing Su Sect skills so that You could give Ah Zi some advice and pointers. Both You and Ah Zi were young, one naive and one blind. Both fell for the plot. Thus You Tan Zhi managed to
learn the 'Fu Shi Du' skill of Xing Su Sect.

http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=3706

YTZ did not have deep techniques but the fu shi du skill was one of the top skills of xing su sect. most of the disiples knew it but couldn't use it because of lack of inner power. YTZ had more inner power and even more lethel poison then DCQ so he could execute the skill. but what he knew was the basic moves only, but the yiyinji/yoga gave him incredible speed and agility along with power so every move of his had rock shattering power.

The essense of the 'Fu Shi Du' skill lay solely in having a huge reserve of inner strength and poisonous energy to kill a person by grabbing and to inject poisonous energy into the corpse. The simple theory was understood by all in Xing Su Sect but non
could attain the necessary internal strength to execute the skill. Ah Zi's purpose when catching poisonous insects and snakes outside Nanjing was to practice kung fu, however she had yet to master the basic poison palms, much less this 'Fu Shi Du'.

With You Tan Zhi's deep inner strength, unorthodox and wierd fighting techniques, no one in Beggar Sect was able to defy him.

because of the rather weird style of this skill, most fighters had no chance against YTZ, even through they probably had better techniques but were not able to execute them as powerfully as YTZ.

[CC]

[URL=http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=3706]
because of the rather weird style of this skill, most fighters had no chance against YTZ, even through they probably had better techniques but were not able to execute them as powerfully as YTZ.

Plus the part which doesn't get mentioned much, YTZ had a 'formless' defence.

[sarakoth]

DCQ himself also taught You Tan Zhi some palm moves when he became his disciple the first time

I assumed those were better than anything taught by A Zi

[MisterM]

I think it's worth mentioning that the skills YTZ learned should have all belonged to the Xing Su sect, not the Xiao Yao sect. While DCQ was a disciple of the Xiao Yao sect he apparently created the skills of the Xing Su sect himselft rather than actually teach his more powerfull Xiao Yao sect martial arts to his disciples to ensure that none of them could ever be a threat to him. Of course YTZs incredible inner power was able to cover up any flaws or weaknesses in his techniques until he ran into XF.

I wonder how powerfull YTZ would have been had he learned the HL28Z as he should have as the leader of the beggar clan. DCQ may have been screwed, and I don't see XF beeing able to beat YTZ with HL28Z and MRF at the same time either. Perhaps he and DY could do the world a favour and kill each other by shooting 6MSJ/HL28Z LDAs at each other and then beeing to inept to dodge the other guys LDA?

[CC]

YTZ should learn the Xuan Ming Palms. Perfect for him.

[augster123]

YTZ should learn the Xuan Ming Palms. Perfect for him.

in terms of strongest iceman in Jin Yong universe, is YTZ the undisputed champ?

i only know of these possible other candidates: XuanMing Elders, Green Wing Bat King, Zuo Lengchan and the Taoist dude that Z3F said created the XM Divine palms?

[kyss of the sword]

YTZ had inner power equal to XF, he had the inner power of three xuan ming elders. since the power of the xuan ming toxin relies on the inner power, and YTZ and the icy silkworm toxin which was the most yin poison in the world, he was the top yin poison expert, through his external skill were way below the xuan ming elders.

[Ken Cheng]

YTZ had inner power equal to XF.

Wasn't Yau Tan Tze's inner power actually better than Kiu Fung's? I thought that Yau Tan Tze lost primarily because he was an inexperienced fighter taking on the world's savviest fighter, not because he had less inner power than Kiu Fung did.

[augster123]

which set of palm techniques is superior if both are available for YTZ to learn?
Xuan Ming Divine Palms? or Icy Silkworm Poison Palms?

[CC]

which set of palm techniques is superior if both are available for YTZ to learn?
Xuan Ming Divine Palms? or Icy Silkworm Poison Palms?

There is no skill called Icy Silkworm Poison Palm. The Ice Silkworm poison was a poisonous energy which merged with YTZ's orthodox inner force and boosted it.

If YTZ learned the Xuan Ming Palm, it will be a crazy combination because the Xuan Ming Poison will be boosted by his innate Ice Worm poison and Yi Jin Jing/Yoga power. Imagine a Xuan Ming Elder hitting at 3-5 times power.


I used to think that YTZ had less inner power than XF but am now of the opinion that it might be slightly to moderately higher.

[kyss of the sword]

YTZ is supposed to have learned yiyinji/yoga martial arts but did you know that there's other buddhist manual with martial arts in them. check this out.

from wikipedia:search indian martial arts:
References to martial arts are found in early Buddhist texts. The Lotus Sutra, complied in kashmir,india (ca. 1st century AD) refers to a boxing art while speaking to Manjusri.[13] The Lotus Sutra also categorized combat techniques as joint locks, fist strikes, grapples, and throws,[14] and also referred to a martial art with dance-like movements called Nara.[15] Another early Buddhist sutra Hongyo-kyo describes a "strength contest" between Gautama Buddha's half-brother Prince Nanda and his cousin Devadatta.[13] Other stories suggest that Siddhartha Gautama was a champion of martial arts and archery before becoming the Buddha.[4]

so there should be other buddhist martial arts around. why is it, only yiyinji(with dubiuos origins) is mentioned only. the only other time i can recall is in ' the flower guarding bell' translation.