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Thread: Wuxia "villains" who were really just good people on the wrong side

  1. #21
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zhuge Liang
    He was willing to kill innocent ppl eg. the lovers of Duan Zheng Xuan. He orchestrated what he thought was going to be an incestuous pairing of 2 innocents to shame the people he hated.
    I think a lot of people in wuxia are willing to kill innocent people and devise vicious plans. That's hardly worthy of being labeled the Peak of Evil.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  2. #22
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    It may make him normal evil, though.

    There are definitely 'more evil' people around.

    Things like loyalty, selective honor, openness, etc. are redeeming factors but on their own do not offset evil deeds and the willingness to commit them. I could find some real life examples but I'm too lazy and in truth I'm not quite sure how to begin the search :P

  3. #23
    Senior Member Zhuge Liang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    I think a lot of people in wuxia are willing to kill innocent people and devise vicious plans. That's hardly worthy of being labeled the Peak of Evil.
    That is true but when it came to vicious plots in DGSD his plot in collaboration with MRF was certainly among the top most vicious plans. Killing women to force someone to bow down to your demands is quite contradictory to the fine class you attributed to him, as was his incest plot.

    Basically that is also one of the main reasons i cannot fully accept ZZR's actions. Though she was wronged and had some reason in purusing her revenge against ZWJ, she was prepared to hurt innocent ppl to hurt him. Even XX later realised that even a villain should be clear in their pursuit for revenge and know who is the target and who is innocent. That is what distinguishes those who are villains and those who are from a higher tier of villainy.
    TristeCoeur on Lady Yang: Someone needs 2 tell her that when u want 2 save people from being killed, u need to hurry the hell up, not play bull#### music & dance around. Her mission failed big time

  4. #24
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    This happens to be from a while ago but I just wanted to reply to something:

    Quote Originally Posted by Zhuge Liang View Post
    That is true but when it came to vicious plots in DGSD his plot in collaboration with MRF was certainly among the top most vicious plans. Killing women to force someone to bow down to your demands is quite contradictory to the fine class you attributed to him, as was his incest plot.
    The "kidnap women" thing wasn't Duan Yanqing's idea. I think It was either devised by Murong Fu or Madam Wang. Duan Yanqing just happened to be present when they killed the women.

    About Duan Yanqing's incest plan, I consider it to be an instance of resorting to trickery to win. But this is done casually by our heroes. When Yang Guo set the Mongolian base camp on fire near the end of ROCH, did any reader think "gee, what a loser, if he's a true warrior he would challenge the leader to a 1:1 duel instead of ambushing them."
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  5. #25
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    I can't think of any redeeming qualities for Quan Guan Qing. Does he have any?
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  6. #26
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC View Post
    I can't think of any redeeming qualities for Quan Guan Qing. Does he have any?
    He kept a promise to the one whom he bedded?
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  7. #27
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Ah, please add EXECUTION ELDER Bai Shijing to the list. The guy was loyal to the bones. He's the only one that Madam Ma slept with who REFUSED to betray Xiao Feng. I find his loyalty to be highly admirable.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  8. #28
    Senior Member KeongJai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lilchilipepper View Post
    I think the thing about SOD was that all the supposedly "bad" guys were far more moral than all the supposedly "good" guys. Thus you have ppl who are villains (Xiang Wen Tian, Tian Bo Guang, etc.) who are better than the heros (Yue Bu Qun, Zhuo Lan Tan).
    yes that was the whole point of the story. you can't judge someone by their "alignment" but rather through their actions.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Felix View Post
    Golden Wheel Monk - I always thought he worked for the country more so than for himself. Au Yeung Fung seems to me to be a bigger villain than Golden Wheel Monk.
    GWM constantly schemes to get other martial artists killed because he's afraid they might get good enough to take him in the future. Giving tips to Gongsun during his duel with Yang Guo, tricking Nimoxing into stepping on the needles that cause him to lose his legs, etc. What's more, he seems to think he's being devilishly cunning when he does it, even though it always backfires on him (either alienating or hindering his allies). Really that guy is just the hugest tool ever.

  10. #30
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    Lin Ping Zhi, what a filial son, much more so that Yang Kang. So filial that he sacrificed everything to avenge his parents' suffering. He had the moral character to be a true honorable disciple of the orthodox school if he was picked up by Mo Da in the beginning of the novel instead, I still remember that part, what a shame...

    Lin also had courage and was willing to take personal risk to help others when there was nothing to gain in return, like the time how he stood up to Yu Cang Hai's son, and also when he called out Yu Cang Hai to help Linghu Chong.

    It's sad that he ended up locked up in that damp dungeon in the end. I doubt that Yue Lingshan would have approved of that, Linghu Chong should have at least remembered Lin's past aid and placed him under house arrest or something, like confining him in a way similar to Zhang SanFeng's 3rd disciple's forced confinement when the latter was crippled.
    Last edited by Wellesley; 11-27-07 at 03:35 PM.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by RongYingMin View Post
    Tian Bo Guang was a GOOD MAN? Even for a lot of innocent girls he raped without any repentance?
    This character was REALLY the MOST EVIL I've ever read. .
    I kinda like the guy's kindness to LHC, but if I agree with the fiery Shitai of Heng-Shan who wanted to kill him, raping people is deserving of death in my opinion.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wellesley View Post
    Lin Ping Zhi, what a filial son, much more so that Yang Kang. So filial that he sacrificed everything to avenge his parents' suffering. He had the moral character to be a true honorable disciple of the orthodox school if he was picked up by Mo Da in the beginning of the novel instead, I still remember that part, what a shame...

    Lin also had courage and was willing to take personal risk to help others when there was nothing to gain in return, like the time how he stood up to Yu Cang Hai's son, and also when he called out Yu Cang Hai to help Linghu Chong.

    It's sad that he ended up locked up in that damp dungeon in the end. I doubt that Yue Lingshan would have approved of that, Linghu Chong should have at least remembered Lin's past aid and placed him under house arrest or something, like confining him in a way similar to Zhang SanFeng's 3rd disciple's forced confinement when the latter was crippled.
    Lin Pingzhi deserves it. He killed his wife who did nothing wrong but always love him with all her heart.

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