Were Hong Lung 28 Palms, 1 Yeung Finger Technique just mediocre martial arts in DGSD?

[Ken Cheng]

Hong Lung 28/18 Palms and 1 Yeung Finger Technique. Two of the most famous martial arts in wuxia fiction history. These two martial arts are almost synonymous with the concept of powerful wuxia martial arts, and in LEGEND/RETURN OF THE CONDOR HEROES, that is indeed the position they occupy in wulin.

During the time of DGSD, however, were Hong Lung 28 Palms and 1 Yeung Finger Technique (not 6 Mak Divine Swords) just mediocre martial arts?

Compared to the Siu Yiu Sect martial arts, Yik Gun Ging, 6 Mak Divine Swords, the Mo Yung Family martial arts, the martial arts of Kau Mor Tze, and whatever in the name of Buddha the Janitor Monk practiced, Hong Lung 28 Palms and 1 Yeung Finger Technique seem just "average" by comparison. In the hands of a superior practitioner such as Kiu Fung, it was hard to detect any disadvantage, but Deun Yin Hing, Deun Jing Ming, and Deun Jing Tsun, whose mastery of 1 Yeung Finger Technique might have put them into the running for Greats status in LOCH/ROCH, were only considered "pretty good" fighters rather than true elites in the world of DGSD.

[HuangYushi]

Descriptions about the Single Finger of Positivity [Yi Yang Zhi 一阳指] from the novel text:

From: http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon.../single_finger

• Noted on the bookshelves of the Library of the Lord of Heaven in the Boundless Cavern as "lacking" from its collection of martial arts from the Duan Family of Dali (Chapter 2). --- In other words, if it did not have a certain level of quality, it would not have been a desired collectible to School of Unfettered Freedom [Xiao Yao Pai 逍遥派].
• Renowned throughout the world (Chapter 6).
• A finger-based technique that was unparallelled in the world; most people would not have had the ability to release any acupoints that had been blocked by this technique (Chapter 7).

The importance of the Single Finger of Positivity [Yi Yang Zhi 一阳指], as stated in the novel text:

From: http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon...nomenal_swords

• The Phenomenal Swords of the Six Channels [Liu Mai Shen Jian 六脉神剑] was a skill that turned the energy from the Single Finger of Positivity into a type of sword-based energy [jian4 qi4 剑气] that had substance without a visible form (Chapter 10), according to the normal progression of martial arts training in the Duan Family.

About Duan Zhengming (the Emperor Baoding):

From:
1. http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon...ts_comparisons
2. http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon...ills_inventory

• Had a similar level in the practice of the Single Finger of Positivity with Benyin, Bencan, Benguan and Benxiang from the Temple of the Celestial Dragon (Chapter 10). At that point, Benyin had reached the Fourth Class [Di4 Si4 Pin3 第四品] in the practice of the Single Finger of Positivity, where the First Class [Di4 Yi1 Pin3 第一品] was considered the best (Chapter 10).
• Considered by Benyin as the top ('number one') pugilist among the secular members of the Duan Family. Considered by Kurong as having reached an 'extraordinary level in the cultivation of internal strength' (Chapter 10).
• Known in the martial arts circle as one of its top-level pugilists (Chapter 10). Note: The martial arts circle referred to here is the wider one covering most of China as we know it today.

About Duan Yanqing:

From: http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon...ts_comparisons

• Had a more profound level of energy that was based on the Single Finger of Positivity than the Emperor Baoding (Chapter 8). --- In other words, if Duan Zhengming (i.e. Baoding) was known in the martial arts circle as one of its top-level pugilists, Duan Yanqing could not possibly be worse.

[Exodus]

yeah 1 YF was just an average martial art in DGSD, maybe it was because there weren't any great fighter out there that used 1 YF. Compared to 6msj 1 YF just seems mediocre.

and the other hand HL18 palm was praised bu sweeper and the entire wulin considered hl18 palm to be one of the best martial art out there. thanks to the supreme practioner XF hl 18 palm was a much respected and feared martial art even in DGSD

[Snafu3721]

XL18P and 1YF were not mediocre Martial Arts in DGSD. In the hands of XF, XL18P was still reflected as a top tier skill (one that actually "injured" SM). However, the problem with 1YF was that it was practiced by 2nd tier Martial Artists. If someone like XZ got a hold of 1YF for example, it would completely change the way we perceive this skill.

[TommyH]

HL18Z by itself is already an elite art, regardless of it's practitioner. It just seems overshadowed because of all the other elite arts in DGSD.

1YZ, at most, is just an elite pressure pointing kungfu. In LOCH and ROCH it may seem impressive but in the DGSD era there are just too much other powerful skills that made it look weak. And the fact that in DGSD there's 6MSJ which also came from the Duan family. To me 6MSJ is like an expansion to 1YZ.

[Whsie]

I disagree. XL18Z was an elite status art that was at least an elite palm style.
And Solitary Yang Finger was NOT an mediocre art. The only reason we all get that impression is because the users sucked compared to the ultra talents or Yideng. AT the hands of those Ben Generation and Duang Zheng Ming, they only achieved Level 4, 3 levels behind the grand master level of Level 1. If Yideng had transported into this period, then I would dare to say Solitary Yang Finger is no mediocre art. It would rival even the best of Xiao Yiao Pai arts. Would you consider Flame Blade, the elite Tibetan art that JMZ specializes in a mediocre art? I sure don't think so and JY said in his new edition that Flame Blade was equal to Solitary Yang Finger.

[Ardor]

Remember that Yideng's 1YZ has more in common with 6MSJ. It's power is so refined that it has become lethal. Like the others have pointed out, the fact that 1YZ looks so weak in DGSD is because the practitioners were comparatively weak.

[Whsie]

Remember that Yideng's 1YZ has more in common with 6MSJ. It's power is so refined that it has become lethal. Like the others have pointed out, the fact that 1YZ looks so weak in DGSD is because the practitioners were comparatively weak.

That's right. Just look at my signature. Those DGSD practitioners have descriptions of extreme yang, raw, and loud. Yideng after mastering Solitary Yang Finger, had a peacful energy(more balanced), soft sounded (extreme perfection of control), and a MUCH stronger power. In addition, Yideng's MASTERY of Solitary Yang Finger was given full compliments, so it has nothing to do with this era and that era.

[Zhuge Liang]

What class was the elder that taught DY the 6MSJ in DGSD?

[HuangYushi]

What class was the elder that taught DY the 6MSJ in DGSD?

No one taught Duan Yu the 6MSJ.
He was simply encouraged to read the scrolls without any explanation whatsoever from anyone and learn whatever he could from it through self-study and observation, because there was an ancestral rule against the impartation (teaching) of the 6MSJ to secular (non-monk) members of the Duan Family (Chapter 10).

[Dennis Chen]

Anyone who thinks that H18Z is a greater art than 1YZ is indulging in hero worship again.

[wang23]

Sorry for my lack of knowledge, but isn't H7G relatively the same as Yi Deng and H7G had a relatively weaker version of 18 Dragon Palms?

[K2Grey]

The XL18Z that H7G has may or may not be weaker than XL28Z. Descriptions in DGSD imply that XL28Z < XL18Z, but comments by Jin Yong in an interview imply otherwise, saying that XF had better Dragon Palms than H7G and that H7G got his Dragon Palms from the disciple of the Beggar Clan guy who got taught by Xu Zhu.

[Zhuge Liang]

No one taught Duan Yu the 6MSJ.
He was simply encouraged to read the scrolls without any explanation whatsoever from anyone and learn whatever he could from it through self-study and observation, because there was an ancestral rule against the impartation (teaching) of the 6MSJ to secular (non-monk) members of the Duan Family (Chapter 10).

Yeah i meant that but was too lazy to phrase it properly.

So was that elder higher than 4th class?

[HuangYushi]

Yeah i meant that but was too lazy to phrase it properly.

So was that elder higher than 4th class?

Probably. Because:

1. He practised the Meditations on Whithered-ness and Glory [Ku1 Rong2 Chan2 Gong1 枯荣禅功], a technique that resulted in a level of internal strength that was high enough to 'remove' all the hair from the head of the Emperor Baoding simply by placing a hand over the head (without touching the hair) and exercising the internal strength against the hair (Chapter 10). None of the 'Ben' generation monks practised this technique.

2. He could exercise two simultaneous streams of energy from the Shao Shang Sword of the Thumb (one from each thumb) and use them in battle for an extended period (Chapter 10), while the other 'Ben' generation monks seemed to be able to produce only one stream (from one hand) at a time.

BTW, his name was Kurong.

For more information:
1. About Kurong. (Scroll down, or do a page search with your browser).
2. About the battle with Jiumozhi at the Temple of the Celestial Dragon.
3. About the Shao Shang Sword of the Thumb, one of the Phenomenal Swords of the Six Channels (i.e. 6MSJ).

[Ardor]

Probably. Because:

1. He practised the Meditations on Whithered-ness and Glory [Ku1 Rong2 Chan2 Gong1 枯荣禅功], a technique that resulted in a level of internal strength that was high enough to 'remove' all the hair from the head of the Emperor Baoding simply by placing a hand over the head (without touching the hair) and exercising the internal strength against the hair (Chapter 10). None of the 'Ben' generation monks practised this technique.

Now this is an interesting statement. That would put the Ben monks below Xiang Wen Tian in Smiling Proud Wanderer...

[JigSta]

I wouldn't call 1YZ mediocre. The first Evil succesfully used it to great effect, even though he was mostly crippled. There were not many crippled fighters in that era that could stand up to the elites, but he did.

[hyoyatika]

Sweeper Monk endorsed Xiang Long 18 Palms. What else do we need to discuss about it?

[hyoyatika]

If you were to ask me, i think skills can be categorized as such: godly, elite and the rest (medium to mediocre).

6MSJ was obviously a godly skill, so was YJJ (in DGSD), so was Xiao Yao skills. Depending on whether you believe DFBB can be defeated, you can put KHBD/BXJF here as well.

Elite skills were Xiang Long 18 Palms, 1 Yang Finger, Toad Stance, Dog beating skill.