LoCH BOOK 3

[foxs]

Yup! I love the regular updates... though I might be presumptuous in saying.. I'm finding more grammar errors? Oh well, it doesn't take away from the story. ^^

Wolfe, I would appreciate it very much if you point out those mistakes to me (why wait until James and his team tackle it? ) I am not offended, but I will be if you don't point the mistakes out. Neither English nor Chinese is my first language, so I still have a lot to learn. But as Redfirefly noted, the original structure might require me to translate some phrases as I did.

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Moved to Chapter 30 - Reverend Yideng

[odbayarb2000]

it has finished so quick.

[IcyFox]

Wolfe, I would appreciate it very much if you point out those mistakes to me (why wait until James and his team tackle it? ) I am not offended, but I will be if you don't point the mistakes out. Neither English nor Chinese is my first language, so I still have a lot to learn. But as Redfirefly noted, the original structure might require me to translate some phrases as I did.

Yeah, I agree with Foxs' sentiments. When it was still my turn, I kept asking repeatedly for feedback on my translations so that I know what I can improve or what I should avoid. And 90% of the comments were, "Thanks for translating..." or, "Can't wait for the next update..." and stuff like that.

Of course such encouragements are very much welcome, because at least you know you're not the only one reading, and also because that's somewhat better than trolling, like, "Hey, translate faster, OK?" or "You do as I say or else you're not respecting the novel..." (That were true incidents in the past and in other threads, BTW).

But the main point here is that it's rare to receive good feedback, so I'd say even criticisms like, "I feel she sounds too casual, maybe you need to make her speech more formal" or anything helpful towards the translations would really be much appreciated!

[efflix]

ok, i will try to help out and make minor edits =) great job! i loved reading this part

"He eats a lot, he speaks a little."
-> he eats much and speaks little? just trying to make it flow a little more
"Speaking to this point he suddenly startled." -> "became startled" or "was startled"
"not to have too much ritual" -> hmm...this sounds slightly odd in english. is this about dispensing with formalities? perhaps "not to be too formal"

the rest of it looks great to me!

[IcyFox]

ok, i will try to help out and make minor edits =) great job! i loved reading this part

...

OK, this is a good sign. At least that Wizard isn't dominating the editing.

Thanks (on behalf of Foxs).

[JamesG]

OK, this is a good sign. At least that Wizard isn't dominating the editing.

Thanks (on behalf of Foxs).

You're dusssplicable!

[efflix]

also: "Yideng was silent for half a day then asked again"

is this literal? is this a chinese saying? i haven't heard it before so i was just curious since half a day is a long time =)

[wolfe]

Like someone mentioned already.. "half a day" is a Chinese figurative term for "a long while" As for me... I was going to ask where to post what little errors I find, but I guess I might as well post them here. This is from the last two parts. Without saying anything else he led two people walked forward. - he led the two people forward. OR he let the two people walk forward. I wonder what your noble concern was? - noble concern is? Is the medicine the most precious pill that they hate to give it up? - Is the medicine a most precious pill that they would hate to give up? Edit#2- ahhhh how do I input spaces between the lines?!

[efflix]

that's a good point wolfe (sorry I didn't notice where someone mentioned it earlier) - should we just be posting edits here?

hmm....how come you can't input spaces between the lines? I just hit the enter key.

[JamesG]

that's a good point wolfe (sorry I didn't notice where someone mentioned it earlier) - should we just be posting edits here?

If you don't feel right about posting editing suggestions, then send foxs_ a PM with your suggestions.
The translations and editing is a team effort which we hope will provide reading pleasure for anyone who wants to read it.

[foxs]

Moved to Chapter 30 - Reverend Yideng

[foxs]

I have some time tonight and stop by. Thank you for all your input. I'd like to discuss some of these with y'all.

"Speaking to this point he suddenly startled." -> "became startled" or "was startled"

As James noted much earlier, we (the translators) used the word 'suddenly' quite a lot. But the thing is, it was Jin Yong who used it a lot. If I omit the word 'suddenly', wouldn't that make my translation less accurate?

"not to have too much ritual" -> hmm...this sounds slightly odd in english. is this about dispensing with formalities? perhaps "not to be too formal"

Again, this is the difficulty of working with two entirely different languages. I can see your suggestions are very good, but they do not convey the same meaning as the original Chinese. The word 'ritual' carry the meaning of 'doing obeisance', you know, cupped fist, kowtow, etc. which, I admit, sounds strange to the English speaking ears. Any idea on how to fix it?

I wonder what your noble concern was? - noble concern is?

I can argue here that when I ask your name, I can say, "What was your name again?" Very much like we use past tense to be 'more polite'.

Is the medicine the most precious pill that they hate to give it up? - Is the medicine a most precious pill that they would hate to give up?

My English teacher taught me that 'the best' and 'the most' are not 'a best' or 'a most'.

Eflix, Wolfe, please don't think that since I argue with you that means I do not like your suggestions. On the contrary, as IcyFox mentioned it, we love feedbacks. I only feel that the above sentences are not necessarily 'grammatically wrong' (as Wolfe suggested in his first post), but only sound strange to the English speaking ears. I appreciate your suggestions very much so I can make necessary corrections on the future post. I will edit my full chapter text according to your other suggestions. Please keep 'em coming.

[Ren Wo Xing]

For ritual, I would translate that as not needing to stand on ceremony; ritual sounds a bit funky, standing on ceremony is more conceptually understood in the West and has the same essence.

In this case, 'a most precious' is better; when you say 'the most precious', it's describing a pill that is the most precious of all pills; when you say 'a most precious' pill, it simply means a very precious pill. The former carries overtones of both direct comparison, as well as knowing exactly the preciousness; the latter is more suitable.

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

As James noted much earlier, we (the translators) used the word 'suddenly' quite a lot. But the thing is, it was Jin Yong who used it a lot. If I omit the word 'suddenly', wouldn't that make my translation less accurate?

You're mistaken. It's not really the word "suddenly" which matters, but rather, the way the word "startled" was used in this context. Usually, the word "startled" goes like this: [subject] startled [object] by [action]. I don't know much about the intransitive verb usage of the word "startled" , and I'm sure I haven't encountered such a phrase before. After all, I'm no English expert, so you might want to wait for an English expert to offer some tips.

However, a safer option would perhaps be "he gave a start". Why did I omit the word "suddenly"? "Startled" has already conveyed the sense of "sudden", so "suddenly" would merely add on to excessive length, interrupt the flow and reduce impact of the story.

Not that efflix is wrong, though. He/she was suggesting the noun form of the word "startled" - the state of which GJ felt startled.

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

In this case, 'a most precious' is better; when you say 'the most precious', it's describing a pill that is the most precious of all pills; when you say 'a most precious' pill, it simply means a very precious pill. The former carries overtones of both direct comparison, as well as knowing exactly the preciousness; the latter is more suitable.

Strictly speaking, this usage of "most" is not really acceptable - foxs_ has good reasons to not use it. It is an extension of the original meaning, and this 'intensifier' form of "most" in front of simple adjectives and adverbs is not recognised as fully acceptable throughout the world, and it does irk a couple of English purists. Also, it sounds unnecessarily formal - another reason to reject its usage.

For safety's sake, just use "very", "extremely" or the like.

[wolfe]

Ah... what I meant here is kind of complicated… It’s a context and diction “problem” that I see. (like foxs_ said, it may not be a grammar problem… it just sounds.. weird lol)

I’ll try to explain… When the question is “Is the medicine the most precious pill…” the focus is on the “the most precious” (something like “the most precious pill they have”) therefore the part after that about giving it up seems misplaced or tacked onto.

However, if you switch the “the” to “a” the focus is then shifted to the second part… I just felt that to the flow was better if the phrase was “a most precious pill that they would hate to give up” rather than “the most precious pill they have”

It’s kind of like that sentence contains two ideas that don’t necessary flow together. (the most precious pill they have; they would hate to give it up)

Of course, this is just a style and flow issue I guess. =P



PS- Phoenix is right in a way, but I'm guessing when foxs_ used "most" he meant "most"

[Phoenix_Aquaris]

[PS- Phoenix is right in a way, but I'm guessing when foxs_ used "most" he meant "most"

And so he did. I checked the Chinese text, and foxs_ is right. So I guess my suggested correction (using words like "very" and so on) does not illustrate very aptly what was going through Huang Rong's mind earlier.

Then again, "a most" precious pill doesn't mean it is the most precious, but rather, it merely intensifies the preciousness of the pill (See Ren Wo Xing's post above).

I'd suggest rewording the sentence as a whole:

"Is the medicine the most precious pill in the world, such that they would hate to give it up so much?”

How about this?

[foxs]

Folks, as much as I like the forum to be busy, but some of you might not like it since all you want is to read the story. (Thanks Efflix for reminding me) As much as I enjoy your response, I will have to suggest that you send me pm. Although I cannot promise to reply promptly, but I will try to take a look, and I will definitely forward your concerns to James.

Part 6 is posted above (#671).

PS: Now you know why translating is difficult, even you, the readers cannot agree on everything.

[JamesG]

Folks, as much as I like the forum to be busy, but some of you might not like it since all you want is to read the story. (Thanks Efflix for reminding me) As much as I enjoy your response, I will have to suggest that you send me pm. Although I cannot promise to reply promptly, but I will try to take a look, and I will definitely forward your concerns to James.

Part 6 is posted above (#671).

PS: Now you know why translating is difficult, even you, the readers cannot agree on everything.

It's a similar thing with the editing.
I sometimes don't agree with a correction provided by Bangs or dgfds01 but it often makes me revise a sentence to make the intent clearer. I even make additional edits as I go through a chapter making their corrections. I sometimes think that the editing is never really complete.

[KChill]

Folks, as much as I like the forum to be busy, but some of you might not like it since all you want is to read the story. (

Well I didn't want to SAY it, but....I consider myself pretty well-versed in the nuances of English, yet I didn't even blink when I read that passage. Meaning whether or not the word more or most is used should not make an earth shattering amount of difference to the reader. I agree with Foxs suggestion that we should keep this thread for the readers, and have a separate thread for the editing issues.