HSDS quick questions

[LuNaR]

ic ty guys, quick answers too! <3

[LuNaR]

so basically ZZR = mui chiu fung (the 9yin white claw girl in LOCH) ?

[Ken Cheng]

so basically ZZR = mui chiu fung (the 9yin white claw girl in LOCH) ?

It's hard to say. They used the same skill, but it's hard to say who was better at it.

[tape]

If we use a bunch of weird comparisons, it seems to indicate that Mei should be better.

Mei is better than the weaker Quanzhen priests, and supposedly around Qiu Chuji level.

Qiu Chuji is generally believed to be around the same level as the Wudang heroes.

ZZR is weaker than the Wudang heroes, so should be weaker than the QZ priests, who are weaker than Mei.

Of course this hinges on Qiu Chuji being around Wudang hero level, which I am not too sure of. I'd put my money on the Wudang heroes generally.

Mei has 20+ years of practicing her whip and claws, and other random external techniques from 9 Yin that don't require immense internal strength. She only has internal strength from ingesting poisons and sulfurs slowly and combating them that way. She later learns a bit of QZ inner strength, but not for an appreciable amount of time.

ZZR only has a year or so of practicing the claws and whip technique, but she is supposed to be naturally more gifted than Mei, and has been practicing Emei inner strength since she was young. It should be stable and great to learn skills with, though not high in quantity. She probably has had close to two years of practicing 9 Yin inner strength, since at the time of the island, it was hinted that she was practicing some weird extreme Yin type of energy.

All in all, I'd say ZZR followed a progression not too unlike young Guo Jing. She learned a good inner strength skill for 2 years, an elite technique (dragon palms vs claws), and had a decent but not extraordinary base before then. Guo Jing at the time he fought Mei was still inferior in terms of martial arts, so I'd imagine ZZR would be too.

[Ken Cheng]

If we use a bunch of weird comparisons, it seems to indicate that Mei should be better.

I tend to believe that Mui Chiu Fung is stronger too, but it's hard to prove either way.

[LuNaR]

so why did yuan ming elders hit the ice palm on ZWJ at the beginning of the story and why did they let him go back to see his parents?

also who is smarter? huang rong or zhao min?

[PJ]

Mei Chaofeng's "real" MA should be way better than ZZR.

However, in short fights, ZZR was more impressive. She outclassed Fan Yao and the Wudang heroes. She might even win against them if she can knock them out quickly (which she demonstrated is possible).

[Yuet Thi]

so why did yuan ming elders hit the ice palm on ZWJ at the beginning of the story and why did they let him go back to see his parents?

also who is smarter? huang rong or zhao min?

Most people would say Huang Rong is smarter, which she probably is, but not by much. I personally think they're equal. Huang Rong was paired up with the not-so-smart Guo Jing which made her seem exeptionally intelligent. She's also the daughter of Huang Yaoshi, who's one of the smartest men in Jin Yong universe. Her intelligence and cleverness helped her and GJ escape death several times, and pull some pranks along the way. As for Zhao Min, she was paired up with Zhang Wuji, who is not dumb, just indecisive. Therefore, Zhao Min would help him and make decisions with her quick-witted mind. However, she's from the opposite side and used her intelligence to work for the Mongolians.

What I'm trying to say is Huang Rong used her intelligence from the beginning to end to assist the dumb Guo Jing, when Zhao Min really didn't have that much opportunities to show off hers because she fell for Zhang Wuji in the end and Zhang Wuji isn't even dumb to begin with. It's like putting white and black side by side, and putting the same white next to ecru. From far away, the white with black seems whiter, but up close, the white with ecru is just the same. Sorry, it's kind of confusing. It's just how I feel and of course there's gonna be disagreements.

[Ian Liew]

If I remember correctly, Yu Lianzhou was the most accomplished of the five (or four, discounting Yu Daiyan due to his injuries) remaining Wudang heroes in terms of martial arts. Just because he could beat Song Qingshu doesn't mean the others could. I have a feeling Song could thrash Yin Liting and Zhang Congji at least.

[tape]

If I remember correctly, Yu Lianzhou was the most accomplished of the five (or four, discounting Yu Daiyan due to his injuries) remaining Wudang heroes in terms of martial arts. Just because he could beat Song Qingshu doesn't mean the others could. I have a feeling Song could thrash Yin Liting and Zhang Congji at least.

Yeah, it'd be close. Qingshu was not doing too bad; if he had another variation of the claw that was unseen he might very well have beat Yu.

[goodrick]

It's like putting white and black side by side, and putting the same white next to ecru. From far away, the white with black seems whiter, but up close, the white with ecru is just the same. Sorry, it's kind of confusing. It's just how I feel and of course there's gonna be disagreements.

Wow, besides that not making much sense, you confused the s#!+ out of me!

[tape]

Wow, besides that not making much sense, you confused the s#!+ out of me!

It made perfect sense to me .

It's the same thing with basketball players -- a 6'6 muscular guy looks normal sized while they are playing on the court, but next to normal people, they look absolutely HUGE. Next to shorter than average people they would look even bigger, even though they are still the same 6'6.

Huang Rong looks incredibly smart next to Guo Jing, but she would look of average intelligence next to her father Huang Yaoshi. Zhao Min is pitted against people like Zhang Wuji, Yang Xiao, Cheng Kun, etc who are all much more intelligent than Guo Jing, so she doesn't look as smart relatively. Basically Huang Rong is 6'6 standing next to a 5'0 guy while Zhao Min is 6'6 standing next to 6'0 guys. She still looks smart, but not AS smart.

[Yuet Thi]

Wow, thanks tape. Your example was so much better than mines. Glad at least somebody understood me.

[poppies]

1. Could Zhang Sanfeng have beaten those three Shaolin monks? Those three that visited Wudang on his 100th birthday, Kong Wen and those other two Kongs?

2. On that island, why doesn't Zhou Zhirou simply kill Zhao Min as well (and then hide her body)?

[Ian Liew]

1. Could Zhang Sanfeng have beaten those three Shaolin monks? Those three that visited Wudang on his 100th birthday, Kong Wen and those other two Kongs?

2. On that island, why doesn't Zhou Zhirou simply kill Zhao Min as well (and then hide her body)?

1. He should be able to. Without knowing much about Kong Wen and Kong Zhi, Kong Sheng seemed to be best of the lot martial arts-wise (since he had no administrative duties in Shaolin at all due to lack of talent), and he was defeated and killed by Ah San. Unless the three of them had some kind of formation to fall back on it is unlikely they'd be able to beat Zhang Sanfeng unless they tire him out.

2. Her intention was to frame Zhao Min and make Wuji hate and kill her. Killing Zhao Min would not accomplish that, as eventually they'd have to return to China, and Wuji will learn that Zhao Min never returned. Unless he believed her lost at sea due to fate, he would have suspicions. Zhou Zhiruo was expecting Wuji to kill Zhao Min without believing anything she said, which he almost did.

[tape]

What doesn't make sense is why Xie Xun didn't reveal ZZR's plot after they regained their martial arts in a few weeks/months because he apparently did know.

Just below the picture, a bit to the left, was another picture of two men. One was sleeping, the other, with a head full of long hair, was inclining his head to listen. Zhang Wuji was startled, "Turn out when Zhiruo was performing this bloody atrocities that cry out to Heaven, Yifu heard everything. The Senior's self-control was indeed very strong; he did not reveal anything on the island. Ah, right. At that time Yifu and I were already drugged by the 'shi xiang ruan jin san'; our internal strength were gone. Our lives were in Zhiruo's hands. No wonder at that time Yifu adamantly said that it must be Min mei's doing, and that he was very indignant toward her. He knew I was naive and muddle-headed; if he told me the secret, I would inadvertently divulge it through my speech or my demeanor."

[poppies]

1. He should be able to. Without knowing much about Kong Wen and Kong Zhi, Kong Sheng seemed to be best of the lot martial arts-wise (since he had no administrative duties in Shaolin at all due to lack of talent), and he was defeated and killed by Ah San. Unless the three of them had some kind of formation to fall back on it is unlikely they'd be able to beat Zhang Sanfeng unless they tire him out.

2. Her intention was to frame Zhao Min and make Wuji hate and kill her. Killing Zhao Min would not accomplish that, as eventually they'd have to return to China, and Wuji will learn that Zhao Min never returned. Unless he believed her lost at sea due to fate, he would have suspicions. Zhou Zhiruo was expecting Wuji to kill Zhao Min without believing anything she said, which he almost did.

I see. Thanks.

[poppies]

What doesn't make sense is why Xie Xun didn't reveal ZZR's plot after they regained their martial arts in a few weeks/months because he apparently did know.

Just below the picture, a bit to the left, was another picture of two men. One was sleeping, the other, with a head full of long hair, was inclining his head to listen. Zhang Wuji was startled, "Turn out when Zhiruo was performing this bloody atrocities that cry out to Heaven, Yifu heard everything. The Senior's self-control was indeed very strong; he did not reveal anything on the island. Ah, right. At that time Yifu and I were already drugged by the 'shi xiang ruan jin san'; our internal strength were gone. Our lives were in Zhiruo's hands. No wonder at that time Yifu adamantly said that it must be Min mei's doing, and that he was very indignant toward her. He knew I was naive and muddle-headed; if he told me the secret, I would inadvertently divulge it through my speech or my demeanor."

I still have not reached that part of the novel yet. I agree, it seems to me pretty odd too that the godfather did not mention it after they have regained their strength. I wonder if in the eyes of Xie Xun, Zhou Zhirou, despite her flaws, was still better than Zhao Min, a foreigner.