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Thread: Has Taoist Priest Chongxu mastered Tai Chi?

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Default Has Taoist Priest Chongxu mastered Tai Chi?

    Greetings SPW fans,

    One claim that I have heard a lot on the forum is that Priest Chongxu has mastered the Taiji art. However I can't seem to find where this is noted in the novel. Can anyone supply the relevant text from the novel?
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    From all the translation I've done so far, I've never encountered that statement (I'm reading the 2nd edition text). From what I remember, there's no mention on how well Chongxu's Taichi sword art is.

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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    Courtesy of pokit and hhaung,

    "Ren Woxing turned towards Wudang School’s leader Priest Chongxu and said, “The fourth person that old man admire is this old ox-nosed priest. Your Wudang School’s Taiji Sword is wonderful. You also exercise self control to protect yourself from immorality and stay away from many idle matters in Jianghu, but you don't know how to teach to your disciples. Wudang School has no one of potential and if you wait till you die then Taiji Sword Art would be lost forever. Also, even though your Taiji Sword Art is high, you might not win against old man. That’s why I only admire you one half.”

    Also the fight with LHC showed his TaiJi very well:-

    That old man just smiled slightly while he slowly turned to the right and raised his left hand upwards till his sword was in front of his chest. The point of his sword started to move circularly as if it was surrounding a ball about the size of two palms. Linghu Chong watched his sword attentively as he understood that this move contained infinite variations. That old man slowly moved forward with his sword still circling. Linghu Chong felt a dense cold air pressing up to him and if he didn't return his move now then he wouldn't be able to do it later. He said, "Sorry for offending senior." He wasn't able to see the weakness in the sword movement so he just made a false thrust with his sword.

    Suddenly, that old man threw his sword into his right hand. With a flash of light, the sword slashed towards Linghu Chong's neck. This slash was an extremely fast killing movement. The spectators couldn't help but gasp in worry.

    But as the old man exerted himself in this strike, Linghu Chong saw a weak point at the lower part of his body. He thrust his sword towards the old man's Yuanye acupoint at the lower part of his body. The old man moved his sword to block the thrust and the two swords clashed. Both people retreated a step. Linghu Chong felt that the old man's
    sword was laced with internal energy which made his right hand shook. Linghu Chong could also feel needles and pins on his arm because of the impact. That old man was also surprised and an expression of amazement could be seen on his face.

    The old man switched his sword to his left hand again and drew two circles in front of his body. Linghu Chong saw that his sword moved continuously and protected his whole body. It was unexpectedly without any flaws. Linghu Chong was secretly amazed, "I have never seen a sword art without any weakness before. If he attacks like this, how do I break it? Perhaps Senior Ren Woxing's sword art is more powerful compared to this old mister, but every move of his still has a weakness. How can it be that this old man's sword art has no weakness at all?" He started to feel afraid and beads of sweat started to form on his forehead.

    That old man formed his right fingers into a sword form and his left hand was continuously moving. Suddenly he thrust out, the tip of the sword vibrating; no one could see where the sword was aiming at.

    This thrust enveloped seven major acupoints on Linghu Chong's upper body. But because of this, Linghu Chong was also able to see three weaknesses on his opponent's upper body. He did not need to attack all these weak points, one would be sufficient to take the old man's life. He thought, "When he's defending, he has no weakness at all. But when he starts to attack, there's still a weakness that can be
    attacked." as he casually pierced his long sword towards the old man's left eyebrow.

    If that old man continued with his thrust then his left forehead would be pierced first. Even though his thrust was earlier than Linghu Chong's, it was still a step too late.

    That old man quickly turned his sword around. Suddenly, Linghu Chong saw a few circles of white light. Big circle, small circle, upright circle, slanting circle, they were all flickering incessantly. As he saw these flowery patterns in his eyes, he quickly turned his sword and slantingly attacked the sword circles. "Tang" as both swords
    clashed with each other. Linghu Chong felt his arm tingling from the impact.

    That old man continued to move his swords creating more and more flickering circles as they moved. Not long after, his whole body was surrounded in the middle of these rings of light. One circle of light had not yet disappeared when another circle of light was formed. Even though his long sword was extremely fast, there was no sound of the sword's edge splitting the air at all. It indicated that he had reached the stage of perfection where the sword was soft but yet still strong.

    At this time, Linghu Chong couldn't see any weakness in his sword art and felt as if there were thousands of swords protecting this old man's whole body. The old man was purely defending at the moment so there was no weakness in his sword art. But this sword front was actually like a moving fort and the thousands of light circles
    resembled a tide as it slowly rushed forward. That old man wasn't attacking using one move at a time anymore. He was now using tens of moves to protect himself while at the same time used this to attack. Linghu Chong was unable to resist this as he retreated to avoid it.

    He retreated a step and the circles of light moved forward a step. In a short time, Linghu Chong had retreated seven to eight steps. The crowd saw that their Chief was now in an unfavourable situation and was about to lose. They were holding their breath watching and cold sweat started to wet their hands. Peachtree Root Fairy suddenly said, "What sword art is that? It's like a child drawing some circles. I can draw too."

    "Come, I'll draw some circles. My circle would definitely be more round than his," Peachtree Flower Fairy said.

    "Brother Linghu, don't be afraid. If you lose, we'll tear this old fellow into four pieces to vent your anger," Peachtree Branch Fairy said.

    "What you said was wrong. One, he's Chief Linghu not brother Linghu. Two, how do you know that he's afraid?" Peachtree Leaf Fairy said.

    "Even though Linghu Chong has become Chief, he's still younger than me. So once he's chief, does he then also become big brother Linghu, uncle Linghu, grandpa Linghu, great grandpa Linghu?" Peachtree Branch Fairy said.

    At this time, Linghu Chong retreated again and the crowd was feeling very anxious. When they heard the Peach Valley Six Fairies talking nonsense, they now got angry.

    Linghu Chong retreated another step and his left foot stepped into a puddle of water. A thought flashed in his mind, "That day grand martial uncle Feng repeatedly told me to keep in my heart that the world's martial art is ever changing and there are also unusual ones. But no matter how wonderful the opponent's moves are, they are still
    moves. So there must be a weakness. When hero Dugu passed on his sword art, he had no match in this world because he was able to see his enemy's weakness. Right now, this senior's sword art is circling around and has no weakness at all. But it must be because I had not been able to see the weakness yet."

    He retreated a few more steps as he gazed at his opponent's countless circles of light. Suddenly, a thought leapt into his head, "Maybe the centre of the circle is the weakness. But if it's not a weakness and I thrust in there, he can twist his sword and cut my arm off."

    He also thought, "Luckily, his way of attack can only go forward slowly. If he really wants to kill me, it won't be that easy. But if I keep retreating, that's just the same as losing. If I lose this battle, everyone would be discouraged. Then how would we be able to break through Shaolin and save Yingying?"

    At the thought of Yingying's kindness towards him, if he loses an arm because of her, what's the harm in that? From the depth of his heart, he was really pleased to actually sacrifice an arm for her. He also felt that he owed her a lot and only by suffering a heavy injury would he be able to repay for her kindness. At this thought, he whole-heartedly hoped that his opponent would really cut his arm as he extended his arm to thrust his long sword into the centre of the circle. A "tang" sound resounded as Linghu Chong felt his chest shook and felt blood bubbling forth but his arm was still intact. That old man retreated a couple of steps and put away his sword. The expression on his face was odd. There were also expressions of surprise and shame together with some expression of sympathy towards him. After some time, he said, "Master Linghu's sword art is brilliant and your courage and wisdom are excellent. Admirable, admirable!"

    At this time Linghu Chong just realised, when he took that risk to thrust his sword, he had actually succeeded in finding his opponent's sword art's weak point. It was just that this old man's sword art was really high. The centre of the circle was actually the most dangerous place and he had unexpectedly practised this sword art so that it
    would also be the weak point. The thousands of swordsmen in the world, it would be very rare for one to be brave enough to go through this danger and thrust his sword in there. He was pleased with himself and thought, "Lucky, lucky!" as he felt sweat running down his back. He quickly bowed, "Senior's sword art is divine. I'm really
    indebted to your advice. The benefit to Junior isn't shallow." His words were not just common talk. This fight had actually benefited his martial art greatly as it made him learn that the enemy's strongest point could unexpectedly be their weakest point. If he
    could break the move at the strongest place then he would be able to break the rest of the weaknesses easily.

    When masters competed in swords, one move could decide the outcome. That old man saw Linghu Chong dared to thrust into the middle of his circle of lights so they didn't need to compete anymore. He gazed at Linghu Chong for a while before saying, "Master Linghu, old man has a few words I want to say to you."

    Hope that helps, it doesn't affirm that he mastered TaiJi, but definitely some strong in-novel evidence of it.

    Han solo
    Last edited by Han Solo; 11-06-06 at 03:06 AM.

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    I think your execution of copy and pasting had some errors, the internal energy did not flow properly?

    IMHO Chongxu hasn't mastered Taiji, he is good at sword technique but hasn't grasped the depth of it which is why he isn't described as being good at say Taiji Fist.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokit
    From all the translation I've done so far, I've never encountered that statement (I'm reading the 2nd edition text). From what I remember, there's no mention on how well Chongxu's Taichi sword art is.
    That's what I thought too. Some readers in the past have claimed that Dugu 9 Swords should be considered superior to Taiji Sword because Linghu Chong used Dugu 9 Swords to "defeat" Chongxu, who has "mastered" Taiji Sword. But I believe this "mastery" is highly debatable since it's not explicitly written nor really implied, and I doubt Chongxu was near Zhang Sanfeng's level of mastery.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    I don't think Chongxu has reached an Great stage in either fist or sword. I just think Chongxu reached a good stage(Wudang Heros), but not great (ZWJ) or GOD stage (like Z3F).
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Personally, I think Priest Chongxu should be higher than the Wudang Heroes... the best of which, after all, is only about 16% as good as Zhang Wuji.

    (Zhang Wuji =~ 3 Du monks
    1 Du monk =~ 2 Ming Cult Lords
    1 Ming Cult Lord =~ Best of Wudang Heroes)
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member Han Solo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by K2Grey
    I think your execution of copy and pasting had some errors, the internal energy did not flow properly?

    IMHO Chongxu hasn't mastered Taiji, he is good at sword technique but hasn't grasped the depth of it which is why he isn't described as being good at say Taiji Fist.
    Edited.

    Must be the fake copy and paste instruction i got from GJ, you would have thought that a simple boy like him would never play such a prank .....


    Han Solo

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    That's what I thought too. Some readers in the past have claimed that Dugu 9 Swords should be considered superior to Taiji Sword because Linghu Chong used Dugu 9 Swords to "defeat" Chongxu, who has "mastered" Taiji Sword. But I believe this "mastery" is highly debatable since it's not explicitly written nor really implied, and I doubt Chongxu was near Zhang Sanfeng's level of mastery.

    For sure, Chong did not master the Taichi fist because in the last chapter of SPW, he was ecstatic to get back the Taichi fist manuscript which was stolen by the Sun&Moon sect 80 years ago. I also think it's likely that there is some stuff in the manuscript which would be useful to swordplay since Taichi is based on free flowing concepts that can be applied to many martial arts. It's possible that a Wudang student is supposed to learn the Taichi fist first then the Taichi sword later since sword martial arts are supposedly the most complex. If that were the case, then it's possible that some basic fudamentals about Taichi were lost when the Taichi fist manuscript was stolen and would thus affect Chong's mastery of the Taichi sword. Although Chong was extremely intelligent, I don't think he would be smart enough to fill in the missing parts of Z3F's brilliant martial arts.

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    Senior Member batmankiller's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    That's what I thought too. Some readers in the past have claimed that Dugu 9 Swords should be considered superior to Taiji Sword because Linghu Chong used Dugu 9 Swords to "defeat" Chongxu, who has "mastered" Taiji Sword. But I believe this "mastery" is highly debatable since it's not explicitly written nor really implied, and I doubt Chongxu was near Zhang Sanfeng's level of mastery.
    don't forget LHC didn't get the 9th stage down

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    Senior Member Ardor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by batmankiller
    don't forget LHC didn't get the 9th stage down
    He was also 19 years or so shy of mastering the first 8. Jin Yong clearly stated that the only technique Linghu Chong really knows is the sword breaking stance. He is not as capable of using the other stances because he has almost no knowledge of any other skills except for the sword skills.
    Burying his Dugu 9 Jian manual under an epitaph, Dugu Qiubai felt he has left his legacy for the next generation. He then moved to Shaolin to study Buddhism, sweep floors and tap elite fighters.

  12. #12
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    While we're on the subject of Smiling Proud Wanderer, Chongxu once said that 50 years ago, 2 Wudang masters tried to create the grand unified version of Liangyi Swordplay. Unfortunately their invention failed to triumph when faced with a certain swordsman.

    Who do you think this certain swordsman is? Could it be Feng Qingyang, and could those 2 Wudang masters be 2 of the 3 nameless experts whom Old Feng praised?

    Now that I think about it, those 3 mysterious nameless experts should have been in the MYSTERIOUS PERSONALITIES survivor game,.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Chongxu still had to depend on SWORD MOVES to execute his Taichi sword arts. That looks not like Zhang 3 Feng or Zhang WJ's Formless Taichi sword arts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    While we're on the subject of Smiling Proud Wanderer, Chongxu once said that 50 years ago, 2 Wudang masters tried to create the grand unified version of Liangyi Swordplay. Unfortunately their invention failed to triumph when faced with a certain swordsman.

    Who do you think this certain swordsman is? Could it be Feng Qingyang, and could those 2 Wudang masters be 2 of the 3 nameless experts whom Old Feng praised?

    Now that I think about it, those 3 mysterious nameless experts should have been in the MYSTERIOUS PERSONALITIES survivor game,.
    can you give me the quote on that part? I haven't read SPW in a while, so I probably read it, but forgot.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    令狐冲拱手还礼,说道:“武当剑法,的是神妙。两位的剑招一阴一阳
    ,一刚一柔,可是太极剑法吗?”挑菜汉道:“却教公子见笑了。我们使的是‘两仪
    剑法’,剑分阴阳,未能混而为一。”令狐冲道:“在下在旁观看,勉强能辨别一些
    剑法中的精微。要是当真出手相斗,也未必便能乘隙而进。”那老头道:“公子何必
    过谦?公子目光到处,正是两仪剑法每一招的弱点所在。唉,这路剑法……这路剑法
    ……”不住摇头,说道:“五十余年前,武当派有两位道长,在这路两仪剑法上花了
    数十年心血,自觉剑法中有阴有阳,亦刚亦柔,唉!”长长一声叹息,显然是说:“
    哪知遇到剑术高手,还是不堪一击。”
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    While we're on the subject of Smiling Proud Wanderer, Chongxu once said that 50 years ago, 2 Wudang masters tried to create the grand unified version of Liangyi Swordplay. Unfortunately their invention failed to triumph when faced with a certain swordsman.

    Who do you think this certain swordsman is? ,.
    Could it be! A descendant of SWORD GOD Zh...........
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    oh c'mon...., be more realistic.

    I think it may be like the grandisciple of the Wudang Heros or something.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    chongxu should have mastered taiji to the same level as ZWj. he also had pheonomenal inner power, probably just second to the abbott. the abbott actually had higher martial arts the ren woxing but lost to a trick. chongxu should be in the same range as ren woxing. his taiji sword art was as good as LHc's DG9J, the duel ended in a draw. he conceeded defeat at shaolin because he knew neither of them could win against the other so there was no point in fighting. LHC only broke the attack of chongxu, but did not actually beat him. it's like HQG sent out a HL18Z palm and OYf blocked it. chongxu was glad to get back the taiji manual because it was a treasure of wudang. wudang had other copies of the manual for taiji quan and taiji jian. wudang at that time did not have an outstanding disiple and chongxu was not a good teacher(like guo jing and huang rong) dispite being an expert. but the students should be able to still learn taiji skills, just not to LHC's level, but maybe YBQ level or higher.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

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    Senior Member kwekmh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kyss of the sword
    chongxu should have mastered taiji to the same level as ZWj. he also had pheonomenal inner power, probably just second to the abbott. the abbott actually had higher martial arts the ren woxing but lost to a trick. chongxu should be in the same range as ren woxing. his taiji sword art was as good as LHc's DG9J, the duel ended in a draw. he conceeded defeat at shaolin because he knew neither of them could win against the other so there was no point in fighting. LHC only broke the attack of chongxu, but did not actually beat him. it's like HQG sent out a HL18Z palm and OYf blocked it. chongxu was glad to get back the taiji manual because it was a treasure of wudang. wudang had other copies of the manual for taiji quan and taiji jian. wudang at that time did not have an outstanding disiple and chongxu was not a good teacher(like guo jing and huang rong) dispite being an expert. but the students should be able to still learn taiji skills, just not to LHC's level, but maybe YBQ level or higher.
    From the translation: If he
    could break the move at the strongest place then he would be able to break the rest of the weaknesses easily.

    So it seems that LHC would not have much trouble handling Chongxu anymore.

  20. #20
    Member Neo26988's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kwekmh
    From the translation: If he
    could break the move at the strongest place then he would be able to break the rest of the weaknesses easily.

    So it seems that LHC would not have much trouble handling Chongxu anymore.
    My interpretation was that there was no other weaknesses. Rather, the way Chongxu practiced the art, the strong point inadvertantly became the weakest point.
    Quote Originally Posted by yittz
    And then the massacre, where the meeting of killing XF, became the gathering of being killed by XF.
    Beautifully put.

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