Z3F, Huang Shang, Sweeper Monk - who is the God of Martial Art philosophy?

[RongYingMin]

Which one will you chose?

I certainly pick up Zhang 3 Feng.

Though Sweeper Monk was far superior to Zhang Sanfeng in terms of Kung Fu level, Z3F would surpass him in terms of MA philosophy.

Sweeper Monk was a genious for UNDERSTANDING and TRAINING kung fu skills which was written by other inventors.

Huang Shang was a creator of genious, but he was based on others' kung fu skills to write his 9 Yin Zhen Jing.

There was only one who created his unique and powerful way of Martial Arts nearly on his own, that is Zhang San Feng.

[soulmelody]

nah,have you heard a phrase saying "there is always someone better than you"
that proves Z3F may be the best because other experts may not be around,if u know what i mean.

[TommyH]

Maybe Sweeper created a martial arts of his too...

[yittz]

Which one will you chose?

I certainly pick up Zhang 3 Feng.

Though Sweeper Monk was far superior to Zhang Sanfeng in terms of Kung Fu level, Z3F would surpass him in terms of MA philosophy.

Sweeper Monk was a genious for UNDERSTANDING and TRAINING kung fu skills which was written by other inventors.

Huang Shang was a creator of genious, but he was based on others' kung fu skills to write his 9 Yin Zhen Jing.

There was only one who created his unique and powerful way of Martial Arts nearly on his own, that is Zhang San Feng.

How do you know for sure that sweeper did not invent something? How can you be sure that he couldnt invent something if he didn't have access to 72 arts? If Z3F remained in Shaolin and given full opportunity to master 72 arts and 9 Yang, do you think he would have bothered inventing something new?

GJ invented something new, YG invented something new, does that mean their philosophy is > than XF, ZWJ, SPT?

[kwekmh]

Erm, I think nothing was mentioned about Sweeper's martial arts.

So maybe he was using a custom martial arts.

[CFT]

Maybe Sweeper Monk invented the "Gum Gong Fook Moor Sun Gung" that Sek Por Tin practiced in Ode to Gallantry?

Although JY keeps praising Z3F for the uniqueness of the martial arts he created, i.e. different to what came before, I contend that it is strongly influenced by his interpretation of 9Yang. In the snippets of 9Yang that Gok Yuen monk recites on his deathbed one can already see the soft yielding philosophy that is a component of taiji.

[Dennis Chen]

Da Mo Ch'an Shi.

[K2Grey]

Kensei Musashi.

[Loke-Gao-Zhu]

ZSF is the greatest human fighter ever!

i personally thinks Sweeper Monk is an alien, about his force shield and flying abilities 0.0

Da Mo Ch'an Shi.

Damo is the founder of Shaolin Temple, he only passed Buddhism and some Yoga to China ,that's all,

the shaolin martial arts originated from the Chinese who became monks

[RongYingMin]

How do you know for sure that sweeper did not invent something? How can you be sure that he couldnt invent something if he didn't have access to 72 arts? If Z3F remained in Shaolin and given full opportunity to master 72 arts and 9 Yang, do you think he would have bothered inventing something new?
GJ invented something new, YG invented something new, does that mean their philosophy is > than XF, ZWJ, SPT?

That depends on WHAT they invented.
Not only did Zhang Sanfeng created excellent kung fu skills, he also pioneered a TOTALLY NEW road in Martial Arts which had never been seen before.
Do you think a non-genious-man could create such kung fu skills and MA philosophy as Taiji techniques.

[Han Solo]

That depends on WHAT they invented.
Not only did Zhang Sanfeng created excellent kung fu skills, he also pioneered a TOTALLY NEW road in Martial Arts which had never been seen before.
Do you think a non-genious-man could created such kung fu skills and MA philosophy as Taiji techniques.

The foundation of Taiji is not unique, the basic concept of borrowing force against force, of using 4 lian to overcome 100 catty, is imbeded in the techniques of diverse martial artists from QF to H7G to ZBT, whose Kong Ming Quan shares much similarities with Taiji.

Han Solo

[CC]

Here is a passage from Duo Qing Jian Ke Wu Qing Jian (aka Xiao Li Fei Dao)


"They think that 'the weapon is not in hand, but in the heart', that this is the highest level of martial arts. But the truth is that they are off by a lot." the old voice said.

"Off by a lot?" the little voice giggled.

"By at least a hundred and eight thousand li." the old voice replied.

"So what then is the highest level of martial arts?" the young girl asked.

"When the hands are empty and the heart is empty, the weapon and the self become one. If they can comprehend this much, then they won't be off by far." the old man said.

"They won't be off by far? You mean that level isn't the highest either?" the young girl exclaimed.

"Yes, there is still one level higher." the old man said.

"The ultimate level of martial arts is when everything arises from nothing. There is no weapon and no self. Weapon and self are both forgotten. This is true formlessness, this is true omnipotence." the old man said explained.



As above,

Level 3 - Weapon in the heart, not in the hand

Level 2 - Weapon and self are one.

Level 1 - Zen

DGKB and Z3F are in either leve 2 or 3. Only Sweeper is level 1. Its no longer about MA philosophy. DGKB and Z3F might have reached the top of MA philosophy, Sweeper has gone _Beyond_ that.


.

[Whsie]

The foundation of Taiji is not unique, the basic concept of borrowing force against force, of using 4 lian to overcome 100 catty, is imbeded in the techniques of diverse martial artists from QF to H7G to ZBT, whose Kong Ming Quan shares much similarities with Taiji.

Han Solo

One point you forgot though is that in if this was to go parralel with real history, then the Yuan period was a period when the "Soft" arts dissapeared and most were left with only raw and hard arts. It was during this period that Z3F bought that "soft" art back after it practically extincted. So Z3F virtually bought to life something that was extinct.

[Whsie]

and btw, I'm not too sure if GL/JY use the same philosophy because I recognize that excerpt from GL's Sentimental Swordsman Ruthless Sword when SGJH and LXH are facing each other and Tian Ji Old Man is standing from the outside talking.

[CC]

and btw, I'm not too sure if GL/JY use the same philosophy because I recognize that excerpt from GL's Sentimental Swordsman Ruthless Sword when SGJH and LXH are facing each other and Tian Ji Old Man is standing from the outside talking.

I think he does because he gave the most arse kicking ability to this Zen old man (Sweeper Monk).

Don't say circular arguement! I posted that passage because I see that there are strong hints that JY goes by the same philosophy (see above).

[siegefried]

I don't understand why people keep saying ZSF is like the god of martial art philosophy when there is absolutely no proof that the theory could live up to the practice.

In the case of Huang Shang, we've witnessed the incredible of 9YZJ, even a mutated version of it.

For the Sweeper Monk, not really caring whether he reached Zen, his theories were never passed on, how would we know what philosophy he suscribed to?

Do be fair to the other characters, and not assume ZSF is no.1 in theory just because he is described as the "greatest" martial artist. For more details, do refer to my post in the other similar thread regarding ZSF vs DGQB. The keyword lies in the word "great". What exactly does "great" define?

[Ardor]

Maybe Sweeper Monk invented the "Gum Gong Fook Moor Sun Gung" that Sek Por Tin practiced in Ode to Gallantry?

Although JY keeps praising Z3F for the uniqueness of the martial arts he created, i.e. different to what came before, I contend that it is strongly influenced by his interpretation of 9Yang. In the snippets of 9Yang that Gok Yuen monk recites on his deathbed one can already see the soft yielding philosophy that is a component of taiji.

Yup, when Dugu Qiubai was bored of being the ultimate swordsman, he took up painting and poetry. Unknowingly, he painted art that had to do with martial arts. Being completely dissappointed at himself for not being able to let go of martial arts, he went into Shaolin to study Buddhism. The monks would not let him into the school officially because he has once humiliated them with his sword. So he snuck in, and stayed under the radar.

[PJ]

Like CC said earlier in this topic, Sweeper Monk has reached the highest level of martial arts. While Zhang and Dugu and Huang are still busy creating advanced skillsets to overcome techniques, Sweeper Monk's philosophy is to simply raise his hand and his opponent will be a goner. He doesn't need Taiji or 9 Yin or whatever. Such swiftness represents what Zhang and Huang can only dream of.

[Huang Rong]

I used to think that Zhang Sanfeng is the best MA philosopher. Now my mind changed. That's Dugu Qiubai who is the MA PHILOSOPHY GOD!!!!!
Sweeper Monk is super powerful, super enlightened in Zen Buddhism, but compared to Dugu, SM is just a big noob (!!!!!) since he still has to use his hands to beat people whereas in the case of Dugu, he uses nothing, totally formlessly yet still he is able to overcome any opponent!

[S Beaver]

The foundation of Taiji is not unique, the basic concept of borrowing force against force, of using 4 lian to overcome 100 catty, is imbeded in the techniques of diverse martial artists from QF to H7G to ZBT, whose Kong Ming Quan shares much similarities with Taiji.

Han Solo

the concept of soft was not novel, but none to taiji's extent. the formlessness that creates infinite stances. the slowness used to conquer quickness (unhindered by speed). the borrowing of force (unhindered by power). not to mention there had been no arts had had yet to ask the disicples to "forget" all the stances