Mo Yung F'uk - responsible for his actions, or victim of his father?

[Ken Cheng]

DEMIGODS & SEMIDEVILS was extraordinary in the Jin Yong canon for many things, and one of them is that there was no real primary villain. There were evil people galore to be sure, but not a central nemesis such as LOCH's West Poison Au Yeung Fung, ROCH's Golden Wheel Monk, HSDS's Sing Kwun, SOD's Ngok But Kwun, etc.

If DGSD did have a "main villain," it might be Mo Yung F'uk. But can we really hold Mo Yung F'uk accountable for his actions? He had been brainwashed from childhood by his father to dedicate his life to the restoration of the Yin Kingdom. That was probably all he was taught (along with martial arts) during his childhood and adolescence, and it became the sole focus of his life. He literally knew nothing else. Every endeavor and experience in Mo Yung F'uk's life was just a step towards the ultimate goal of restoring the Yin Kingdom.

Mo Yung Bok re-emerged suddenly only to disappear again just as quickly into a life of meditation with the Janitor Monk. Mo Yung Bok had learned to give up the mad dream of restoring the Yin Kingdom, but left his son to carry on the dream that he had abdicated. Mo Yung Bok basically abandoned his son to deal with the consequences of the insane ambition he had stoked in the younger man. Ultimately, pursuit of this ambition drove Mo Yung F'uk insane.

Does Mo Yung F'uk bear the sole responsibility for what happened to him, or is he merely a victim of his father's schemes? Should he be condemned or pitied?

[K2Grey]

MRF's ambition was not to restore the Great Yan, but rather to become Emperor. MRB was willing to sacrifice his own life in return for XF aiding MRF in his plans; MRF was willing to disown the Murong family so he could become Dali's emperor. MRF's responsible for himself.

[warlock110]

MRF is an idiot. he got WYY by his side at all time and he still want to rule a kingdom? what an idiot. ruling a kingdom doesn't give happiness. look at DY, that fool never wanted to do anything related to ruling his country lol.

look wat happen, he got his girl stole, and went crazy... it's all his fault for not realizing the simple facts of life at the age of 20+. he basically read all those book and not get anything from them.

[QF]

he got WYY by his side at all time and he still want to rule a kingdom? what an idiot.

Um...well...she is not more important than a kingdom. If he got the kingdom there will be other WYYs


QF

[Candide]

WYYs are a dime a dozen when you're emperor of China.

As said, while MRB was mostly about restoring the Yan dynasty, MRF didn't give a toss about it. He just wanted to be emperor.

To answer the question, of course he's responsible for his actions. His parents might shoulder part of the blame for bad parenting but ultimately, MRF did everything himself.

[warlock110]

Um...well...she is not more important than a kingdom. If he got the kingdom there will be other WYYs


QF

that's the ungrateful thinking. and that's exactly what will happen when u think like that. ... a lesson from JY lol.

let me put it in football perspective since football season is in rite now

you know how when it's 3rd and 3, or 3rd and 2 or maybe even 3rd and 1, and they still punt the ball? or when it's 4th and goal and they hit 3 points rather than going for touchdown? it's because the sure thing is always better than something that MIGHT happen

[Seroth]

MRF is too absorbed and blinded by trying to be emperor, anway he aint good at this stuff. So,,yea hes dumb. he should just side with one group of peeps,not with so many.

[flyingfox2002]

MYF is solely responsible for what he did. Everyone (in real life or fiction) is under pressure, but each individual is ultimately responsible for his or her actions.

I don't think we should view MYF as the main villain of DGSD because A) there are a number of other main villains, and B) he simply isn't fit to be a main villain (e.g., he's more like scum than main villain).

[strife_au]

that's the ungrateful thinking. and that's exactly what will happen when u think like that. ... a lesson from JY lol.

let me put it in football perspective since football season is in rite now

you know how when it's 3rd and 3, or 3rd and 2 or maybe even 3rd and 1, and they still punt the ball? or when it's 4th and goal and they hit 3 points rather than going for touchdown? it's because the sure thing is always better than something that MIGHT happen

Nothing would be achieved if everyone went by the safety first option.



:>

[PJ]

I don't think we should view MYF as the main villain of DGSD because A) there are a number of other main villains, and B) he simply isn't fit to be a main villain (e.g., he's more like scum than main villain).

Murong Fu is the CENTRAL antagonist, and he more or less embodies the main qualities of the other villains: hypocritical (a fake gentleman), unloyal (opportunistic), and yet ends up living a satisfying life at the end.

[Candide]

I don't think DGSD was meant to have a main villain. There's a villain for every character: him/herself.

[flyingfox2002]

Murong Fu is the CENTRAL antagonist, and he more or less embodies the main qualities of the other villains: hypocritical (a fake gentleman), unloyal (opportunistic), and yet ends up living a satisfying life at the end.

Are you referring to the original novel or TVB adaptations?

If TVB stuff, then I have nothing to say cuz I don't watch TVB. If novel, then guys like Duen Yin Hing and Kau Mo Ji share as important a role as "villain" as MoYung ***. You cannot say MYF was the CENTRAL villain. He simply isn't.

He ended up showing himself to be scum at the end and killing a bunch of people, but that doesn't make him the main villain.

[PJ]

I don't think DGSD was meant to have a main villain. There's a villain for every character: him/herself.

But if you had to pinpoint one villain (because somebody pointed a gun to your head and forced you to do so), it would probably be Murong Fu.

[PJ]

Are you referring to the original novel or TVB adaptations?

The novel, of course.

If novel, then guys like Duen Yin Hing and Kau Mo Ji share as important a role as "villain" as MoYung ***. You cannot say MYF was the CENTRAL villain. He simply isn't.

Duan Yanqing and Jiumozhi didn't have nearly as much screen time as Murong Fu. And whatever schemes Duan and Jiu might have been up to, were only antagonistic to ONE protagonist (that would be Duan Yu). Murong Fu became the antagonist to at least TWO of the protagonists (Duan Yu and Xiao Feng).

He ended up showing himself to be scum at the end and killing a bunch of people, but that doesn't make him the main villain.

Again, from an antagonist point of view, he can be considered the central villain.

[flyingfox2002]

The novel, of course.



Duan Yanqing and Jiumozhi didn't have nearly as much screen time as Murong Fu. And whatever schemes Duan and Jiu might have been up to, were only antagonistic to ONE protagonist (that would be Duan Yu). Murong Fu became the antagonist to at least TWO of the protagonists (Duan Yu and Xiao Feng).



Again, from an antagonist point of view, he can be considered the central villain.

Do you really want to count the face time of each?

My point is MYF does not deserve to be a main villain because all he did was kill some people, including betray his loyal subordinates. That makes him scum for sure, but not a main villain. To be a main villain you have to have at least SOME power to awe. MYF was but a clown.

[PJ]

Do you really want to count the face time of each?

I gave you more than his present percentage. What counts is the impact of his antagonisticism.

My point is MYF does not deserve to be a main villain because all he did was kill some people, including betray his loyal subordinates. That makes him scum for sure, but not a main villain. To be a main villain you have to have at least SOME power to awe. MYF was but a clown.

Whether or not Murong Fu deserves to be the main villain, I cannot argue. But I do think that he is the main villain.

In my humble opinion, The main villain is not required to be super powerful with earth-shattering abilities and achievements. The main villain is quite simply the one who opposed the main characters the most. Murong Fu is simply a pathetic man who never achieved something great despite his ambitions, and yet he remains the single most central antagonist in the novel, in my opinion anyway.

[Candide]

I don't understand your argument, PJ. There's no main protagonist in DGSD either. That novel is not supposed to have one person who stands out as either protagonist or antagonist.

The main villain is quite simply the one who opposed the main characters the most.

Apart from Duan Yu, Murong Fu hardly opposed the other two main characters Xu Zhu and Xiao Feng. Sure, there's North Qiao Feng, South Murong but that's just the reputation thing, and Murong Fu did fight Xiao feng briefly but that does not make him the central villain. If there's an opposition to Xiao Feng, it is Xuan Ci, or the idea of a main villain who led the gang in the ambush on his parents. Moreover, Duan Yu was bothered just as much by Jiu Mozhi and Duan Yanqing.

[flyingfox2002]

PJ, if we go by your definition of what defines a "central villain," namely that he is the "evil" character who opposes the hero(es) the most, then MYF is not the central villain by your definition either. Like Candide mentioned, MYF really does not oppose anyone until his murdering binge. For much of the novel, he is just the better looking, better fighting "dark cloud" who is overshadowing DY (the tide is turned as the novel progresses but for much of the novel he has the upper hand), he does nothing of note to actually cause DY or anyone else any harm.

[PJ]

I don't understand your argument, PJ. There's no main protagonist in DGSD either. That novel is not supposed to have one person who stands out as either protagonist or antagonist.

Sure, the novel is not intended to have a main villain or protagonist, but the point is that if you had to classify a single main villain (and I'll give you my reasons for why you might have to do this), I would nominate Murong Fu.

For example, I would argue that in the USA (or any other country) there isn't supposed to be ONE person who stands out as the president, when there are certainly many just as able leaders from a selection of 250+ million people. And yet, we are FORCED to elect ONE president who stands out above the rest. I view this as the equivalent of electing a central villain in a novel that isn't supposed to have a central villain.

Actually, a better example would be the "people of the year" specials that magazines come up with. Do we really think that the world is supposed to put just ONE person in the spotlight? But when the magazine is FORCED to name just one person (by the ppl in charge), it will pick ONE person who BEST fits the GIVEN CRITERIA.

Apart from Duan Yu, Murong Fu hardly opposed the other two main characters Xu Zhu and Xiao Feng.

I don't think Murong Fu opposed Xuzhu, but there's definitely some opposition against Xiao Feng.

If there's an opposition to Xiao Feng, it is Xuan Ci, or the idea of a main villain who led the gang in the ambush on his parents.

The villain who caused Xiao Feng's misery is Murong Fu's father. After the secret was revealed, Murong Fu and Xiao Feng became mortal enemies.

Moreover, Duan Yu was bothered just as much by Jiu Mozhi and Duan Yanqing.

Consider how much misery Duan Yu felt throughout the novel, and why he felt so miserable. Most of the misery can be attributed to Murong Fu, the man of choice of Duan Yu's admiree. Almost Every time Duan Yu felt his heart aching, it was because Wang Yuyan was daydreaming about Murong Fu.