Whose internal energy was fiercer: Xiao Feng or Yang Guo?

[yittz]

I thought DYQ was DGQB no? When he realised his son is the heir to the Dali's throne, he reflected back on his action and gained enlightment. From then on, he used his crutches as crutches, and no longer as a sword, reaching the no sword stage.

[jackattack]

First of all, YG is also a cripple


Second, you have not addressed PJ's argument on HIS theory. You cling to the argument that DYQ and the monks did not achieve top stage for YYZ, but ignore the issue raised on the Wooden sword stage that PJ has laid out.


DYQ, who has achieved the Wooden Sword stage, is far stronger than YG, that is without doubt.


But, DYQ himself could never hope to match XF. Put it simply, XF or DYQ would slaughter YG, without a doubt.

Yang Guo, even as a cripple he defeated a Great level fighter ( golden wheel monk ) in just 6 stances when he became really sad.

It was stated that after only six years of training in the ocean, Yang Guo did indeed reach the wooden sword stage. It was also stated that even if Du Gu Qiu Bai came back alive himself, he could not have done better!!!!!

and remember, it was 16 years later at the end of the book, so Yang Guo had 10 more years to perfect his skills, even AFTER he reached the wooden sword stage.

I also still think Yi Deng is far stronger than Duan Yan Qing, since the time difference between them is only about 50 years.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Yang Guo did not master the wooden sword stage. His performance with a regular metal sword was inferior to that of the HIS, much less with a wood sword.

[athlee]

Do I really have to explain everything again??

Please do. Besides what has been pointed out on HIS, I would also wish to point out that just because YD has reached the so-called peak at YYZ, it is on technique, not on pure internal energy. YD not being able to match YG on internal says nothing about DYQ

[Dirt]

What internal was Yideng using? The book says he mastered YYZ to the point that his finger chi was soft instead of loud; that his internal was exquisite. Nobody else's internal was described in such a way. Not HYS or ZBT who learned 9yin, a more advancEd art than XTG which Yideng did learn and could be using by the end of ROCH. YD and YG made quite the contrast. YD could use the thousand mile voice thingy and still sound soft, YG could scream loudly enough to hurt people; which is harder to achieve? If some else was screaming the way Yang Guo was, would Yang Guo be able to help Guo Xiang the way Yideng did?

[athlee]

Yang Guo, even as a cripple he defeated a Great level fighter ( golden wheel monk ) in just 6 stances when he became really sad.

It was stated that after only six years of training in the ocean, Yang Guo did indeed reach the wooden sword stage. It was also stated that even if Du Gu Qiu Bai came back alive himself, he could not have done better!!!!!

and remember, it was 16 years later at the end of the book, so Yang Guo had 10 more years to perfect his skills, even AFTER he reached the wooden sword stage.

What RWX said, YG never reached Wooden Stage. If you want to say otherwise, please pull it from the book. YG did not even master HIS completely so where did you pull out that he mastered Wooden? And where was it stated that if DGQB came back he could not have done better?

I also still think Yi Deng is far stronger than Duan Yan Qing, since the time difference between them is only about 50 years.

50 years? How did you get that? YD is DYQ's great grandson if I recall, with DY being his grandfather. You will have to show me the maths on where you get 50.

[jackattack]

Please do. Besides what has been pointed out on HIS, I would also wish to point out that just because YD has reached the so-called peak at YYZ, it is on technique, not on pure internal energy. YD not being able to match YG on internal says nothing about DYQ

Read my post again:
法王正欲回掌相击，突听嗤嗤轻响，一股柔和的气流涌向面门，正是一灯大师使出“一阳指”功夫， 正面拦截。法 王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内，那料到他这一指之功，竟是如此深厚。
此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步，指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳 平和，但沛然 浑厚，无可与抗。

You see, not only did Yi Deng achieve the highest stage in technique, his internal energy was also stated to be " unstoppable, un blockable, invincible."

此时一灯大师的“一阳指”功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步，指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳 平和，但沛然 浑厚，无可与抗。

Not only did Duan Yan qing not reach the highest stage in technique, he also did not have the internal energy to come close to yi deng.

Also, do recall that, when Yang Guo became really sad, he defeated GWM in just six stances. SIX STANCES. That should say something.

[Ken Cheng]

Also, do recall that, when Yang Guo became really sad, he defeated GWM in just six stances. SIX STANCES. That should say something.

Don't get too hung up on the six stances. Under the right circumstances, a powerful fighter can lose even to someone much weaker in fewer stances than that.

A six-year old Gwok Jing with no martial arts training took down Chan Yeun Fung with a single knife strike.

The Yeun Ming Elders took down Yeung Siu and Wai 1 Siu in fewer than six stances, but we know their martial arts levels were not, in fact, that far apart.

Then, there was the infamous Chow Chi Yerk's takedown of a Cheung Mo Gei who was at least seven times more powerful than she was.

If the Golden Wheel Monk had *any* idea what was coming, he'd have lasted more than six stances. I could almost guarantee you that Yeung Gor could not have beaten any of the other Greats or especially Gwok Jing in six stances (or six thousand, for that matter).

[Ren Wo Xing]

"登峰造极" is a rhetorical term meaning at an extremely high level, but there is, throughout LOCH/ROCH, no reference whatsoever to the clearly defined, specific tiers of DGSD. That's what we're trying to get at here. Theoretically (not that I believe this), the YYZ which Yideng has practiced and mastered as of LOCH is only equivalent to tier three or tier two of DGSD. Since 6MSJ has disappeared by the time of LOCH, it certainly would not be unreasonable that aspects of the 'full' YYZ (which had specific tiers) was lost as well.

And Ken is correct re those 6 stances.

[yittz]

Poor GWM essentially defeated himself in 1 stroke when he matched palms with GJ in the hero meeting.

[Dirt]

"登峰造极" is a rhetorical term meaning at an extremely high level, but there is, throughout LOCH/ROCH, no reference whatsoever to the clearly defined, specific tiers of DGSD. That's what we're trying to get at here. Theoretically (not that I believe this), the YYZ which Yideng has practiced and mastered as of LOCH is only equivalent to tier three or tier two of DGSD. Since 6MSJ has disappeared by the time of LOCH, it certainly would not be unreasonable that aspects of the 'full' YYZ (which had specific tiers) was lost as well.

And Ken is correct re those 6 stances.

Are you referring to the YYZ kung fu or Yideng himself?

If to the martial art, I see no reason for YYZ to have lost tiers given it's passed down father to son in an Imperial family, unless Yideng's father or Duan Yu purposely made it so. I mean, XL18Z has retained the 18 palms that Xu Zhu and Xiao Feng streamlined it into; at least in the 3rd edition anyway. 2nd edition, then yeah, things were missing.

[forgot password]

This IS Spartaaaaaaa, dudes.
so, Xiao Feng >>>>>>> Yang Gay, I mean Yang Guo.

[jackattack]

I thought DYQ was DGQB no? When he realised his son is the heir to the Dali's throne, he reflected back on his action and gained enlightment. From then on, he used his crutches as crutches, and no longer as a sword, reaching the no sword stage.

Good guess, except Du Gu QiuBai was literally undefeated and supposedly invincible, and Duan yanqing does not come anywhere near that.

[kdonggyu94]

That's just in theory how HIS wants itself to work. It doesn't mean it will actually work against every opponent, especially if the opponent is more powerful.

Here is another theory:

Heavy Iron Sword is based on the principle of wielding a heavy weapon as if it were light. It was explained that the superior stage of Wooden Sword is based on the higher principle of wielding a light weapon as if it were heavy. Yang Guo was in the former stage, while in DGSD, Duan Yanqing demonstrated a greater achievement when he wielded a light cane as if it weighted tens of more pounds, and used it effectively in combat. It can be thus concluded that Duan Yanqing > Yang Guo. And we all know that Duan Yanqing is no match for Xiao Feng, so Xiao Feng >>> Yang Guo.

No, you cannot conclude that Duan Yan Qin > Yang Guo just because Duan Yang Qin wielded a heavy weapon as if it were light.

WHy? Because fighters that are far weaker then Yang Guo, such as 点苍渔隐 , has been able to wield a heavy weapon as if it were light. As proven below:

点苍渔隐膂力本就极大，在湘西侍奉一灯大师隐居之时，日日以铁桨划舟，逆溯激流而
上，双臂更是练得筋骨似铁。他是一灯的大弟子，在师门亲炙最久，一灯大师以他生性纯粗鲁，向极为喜爱，只是 他天资较差，内功不及朱子柳，但外门硬功却是厉害之极。

此时与藏僧达尔巴硬拚外功，正是用其所长，但见他双桨飞舞，直上直下的强攻。两柄铁桨每一柄总有五十来斤重，他却举重若轻，与常人挥舞几斤重的刀剑一般灵便。

Also, 点苍渔隐's weapon is a lot harder than Duan Yan Qin's weapon, so, it is reasonable to assume that 点苍渔隐 is a better fighter than Duan Yan Qin. And we all know that, Guo Jing and Yang Guo could KO 点苍渔隐 in less than 3 stances.........

So wielding a heavy weapon as if it were light really means nothing at all........ it is NOT the same as reaching the wooden stage.

[jackattack]

What RWX said, YG never reached Wooden Stage. If you want to say otherwise, please pull it from the book. YG did not even master HIS completely so where did you pull out that he mastered Wooden? And where was it stated that if DGQB came back he could not have done better?



50 years? How did you get that? YD is DYQ's great grandson if I recall, with DY being his grandfather. You will have to show me the maths on where you get 50.

Yes, Yang Guo DID reach the wooden stage. But since you're too stubborn to believe anything I say, I will show you evidence from the book.

杨过手执断剑的剑柄，心想：这木剑脆薄无力，竟能断树，自是凭借了我手上劲力，将来树断而剑不断，那便可差 近独孤前辈当年的神技了。

春去秋来，岁月如流，杨过日日在海潮之是练剑，日夕如是，寒暑不问。木剑击刺之声
越练越响，到后来竟有轰轰之声，响了数月，剑声却渐渐轻了，终于寂然无声。又练数月，剑声复又渐响，自此从 轻而响，从响而轻，反复七次，终于欲轻则轻，欲响则响，练到这地步时，屈指算来在海边已有六年 了。

这时候杨过手仗木剑，在海潮中迎波击刺，剑上所发劲风已可与扑面巨浪相拒，神雕纵
然力道惊人，也已挡不住他木剑的三招两式，这时他方体会到剑魔独孤求败暮年的心境：
“以此剑术，天下复有谁与抗手？无怪独孤前辈自伤寂寞，埋剑穷谷。”

important fact : duan yan qing never reached the wooden stage. All he did was wield a heavy weapon as if it were light, which is actually quite easy and has been done by many( as explained by kdonggyu94 already ).

[kdonggyu94]

What RWX said, YG never reached Wooden Stage. If you want to say otherwise, please pull it from the book. YG did not even master HIS completely so where did you pull out that he mastered Wooden? And where was it stated that if DGQB came back he could not have done better?



50 years? How did you get that? YD is DYQ's great grandson if I recall, with DY being his grandfather. You will have to show me the maths on where you get 50.

This IS Spartaaaaaaa, dudes.
so, Xiao Feng >>>>>>> Yang Gay, I mean Yang Guo.

er......... this is the 21'st century, brother.........

[kdonggyu94]

First of all, YG is also a cripple

Second, you have not addressed PJ's argument on HIS theory. You cling to the argument that DYQ and the monks did not achieve top stage for YYZ, but ignore the issue raised on the Wooden sword stage that PJ has laid out.



DYQ, who has achieved the Wooden Sword stage, is far stronger than YG, that is without doubt.



But, DYQ himself could never hope to match XF. Put it simply, XF or DYQ would slaughter YG, without a doubt.

The fact that Yang Guo only has one arm supports my theory further. Even with ONE arm he could match the other Greats in fights.

So it is reasonable to assume that he must have greater internal energy.

Er, also, all DYQ did was weild a heavy weapon as if it were light, he never reached the wooden stage like Yang Guo did.

Wielding a heavy weapon as if it were light has been done by many people who are far weaker than Yang Guo before, like I have already proven. BUt just so you won't forget it, I will prove it to you again.

点苍渔隐柄铁桨每一柄总有五十来斤重，却举重若轻，与常人挥舞几斤重的刀剑一般灵便。
It is only your ignorant assumption that DYQ reached the wooden stage. Please don't confuse the two things together.

Reaching the wooden stage is NOT the same as weilding a heavy weapon as if it were light.

[jackattack]

First of all, YG is also a cripple

Second, you have not addressed PJ's argument on HIS theory. You cling to the argument that DYQ and the monks did not achieve top stage for YYZ, but ignore the issue raised on the Wooden sword stage that PJ has laid out.



DYQ, who has achieved the Wooden Sword stage, is far stronger than YG, that is without doubt.



But, DYQ himself could never hope to match XF. Put it simply, XF or DYQ would slaughter YG, without a doubt.

1). dyq did NOT reach the wooden stage. he just wielded a heavy weapon as if it were light. ( which is quite easy ) Don't lie.... or maybe u thought we were too stupid to notice?

2). Yang guo HAS reached the wooden stage

3). Prove to me again how dyq is stronger than Yang Guo without a doubt. In fact, its been proven now that Yang Guo is stronger than Duan Yan Qin without a doubt.

4). This thread is about internal energy only. Xiao Feng does not specialize in internal energy. Rather, he uses his superior fighter instincts.

[kdonggyu94]

Yang Guo did not master the wooden sword stage. His performance with a regular metal sword was inferior to that of the HIS, much less with a wood sword.

ah hem...... hint : read the below passage!!!!!

杨过瞧着山洪奔腾而下，心通其理，手精其术，知道重剑的剑法已尽于此，不必再练，便是剑魔复生 ，所能传授的 剑术也不过如此而已。将来内力日长，所用之剑便可日轻，终于使木剑如使重剑，那只是功力自浅而深，全仗自己修为，至于剑术，却至此而达止境。

my point is, yang guo did reach the wooden stage indeed. and no, thats not the same as just wielding a heavy weapon as if it were light.

[jackattack]

What RWX said, YG never reached Wooden Stage. If you want to say otherwise, please pull it from the book. YG did not even master HIS completely so where did you pull out that he mastered Wooden? And where was it stated that if DGQB came back he could not have done better?



50 years? How did you get that? YD is DYQ's great grandson if I recall, with DY being his grandfather. You will have to show me the maths on where you get 50.

can you read? have you even read the book? Do you base your arguments on anything at all? My passage below basically is like a slap in the face for you I guess.

杨过瞧着山洪奔腾而下，心通其理，手精其术，知道重剑的剑法已尽于此，不必再练，便是剑魔复生 ，所能传授的 剑术也不过如此而已。将来内力日长，所用之剑便可日轻，终于使木剑如使重剑，那只是功力自浅而深，全仗自己修为，至于剑术，却至此而达止境。

ouch..... that musta hurt....

regarding your second paragraph, people back then were having kids when they were 18, 19, and 20...... so I don't see anything wrong with what I said.