Further proof that Smiling Proud Wanderer era kung fu beats DGSD/Trilogy era kung fu

[ChanceEncounter]

Yeah, LMC leapt further than XF in a single leap, while holding a baby and a sack.

[ChronoReverse]

While not a standing jump much less something as difficult as standing jumping backwards, it's interesting to note that the current World Record for the Long Jump is just a tad under 30 feet.

This is just slightly below 3 zhang.

[sniffles]

Incidentally, about the wood carving incident in XAJH, the most interesting thing was not that this feat was performed but that LHC was more concerned about being impressed that FZ was able to detect LHC's breathing and immediately discern the origin of his internal energy rather than that they wrote on a wooden support pillar with their fingers. That's right, in XAJH, writing on wood isn't so impressive that someone would be in shock about it.

Well, honestly, I think the breathing/internal energy identification feat is much more impressive than carving the pillar with their fingers. How high up was LHC when FZ and the Beggar Clan guy heard him breathing? And they were outside the room with other people around them talking, if I remember correctly.

Under the right circumstances any of us could carve something into wood with our fingernails. Maybe the pillar has dry rot.

[ChronoReverse]

How about the fact that LHC was able to discern the breathing of the 10 masters in the room but did not hear the carving of the words on the pillars?

The carvings were deep and yet they did it soundlessly.

[Ghaleon]

so we went from people underestimating SOD to SOD > all??

[Ren Ying Ying]

LMC also leapt a zhang backwards when fighting HR.

In that case, LMC is just as capable as XF in the field of leaping!

all other arguments aside, just to point out, the Ancient Tomb qing gong is supposedly the "best in the world" (at the time). Little Dragon Girl was able to keep up with QQR despite being a much weaker fighter (though oddly...YG couldn't).

Well, honestly, I think the breathing/internal energy identification feat is much more impressive than carving the pillar with their fingers. How high up was LHC when FZ and the Beggar Clan guy heard him breathing? And they were outside the room with other people around them talking, if I remember correctly.

Under the right circumstances any of us could carve something into wood with our fingernails. Maybe the pillar has dry rot.

Some people like to use carving wood with finger as a benchmark in comparison of SOD folks to the LOCH/ROCH folks since Qiu Chuji estimated that Reverend Yi Deng (most powerful finger) couldn't carve words into wood.

[ChanceEncounter]

all other arguments aside, just to point out, the Ancient Tomb qing gong is supposedly the "best in the world" (at the time). Little Dragon Girl was able to keep up with QQR despite being a much weaker fighter (though oddly...YG couldn't).

That could be because YG was carrying a 70 pound sword on his back. And either way, they weren't that far behind.

[Ren Ying Ying]

That could be because YG was carrying a 70 pound sword on his back. And either way, they weren't that far behind.

either way, the point being that LMC being able to perform a leap that is "Great" level is not necessarily that far off a stretch.

[Candide]

Why would XF need to leap backwards more? He isn't some pussy trying to run away from a fight.

[CancerLuna]

[QUOTE=PJ;618627]For years, wuxia fans have been debating the placement of SPW era in the martial arts ranking hierarchy. Are people like Ren Woxing on par with the Greats, or are they below? Not very often do we think of Ren Woxing, Chongxu, Linghu Chong, Fangzheng etc as Sweeper Monk level, but now there are indeed some evidence that Ren Woxing is actually REALLY near Dugu Qiubai's level or even better. I present to you 3 such evidences.


1) In SPW during Zuo Lengchan's fight with Ren Woxing, it is mentioned that the Sealing of Acupoints (SOA) is considered a low level skill, and that ANY good martial artist ( 高手 ) would not resort to this kind of cheap act. In DGSD, the Elite Jiumozhi used SOA in combat against Murong Fu, and another time he confirmed that the essence of the Flower-Massaging Finger, considered by many to be a Great-level supreme art of Shaolin, is to perform SOA. So, we have ample evidence that DGSD Elites use SOA, and yet according to SPW, the DGSD Elites like Xiao Feng and Jiumozhi are only considered LOW LEVEL martial artists. This means that Zuo Lengchan > Xiao Feng by a long shot. Since Ren Woxing > Zuo Lengchan, The gap between Ren Woxing and the Sweeper Monk/Dugu Qiubai is thus finely reduced, if there is such a gap any more.[quote]
Just because in that era, they consider it a low level skill, doesn't mean it is a low level skill. Just like in games, people that are "scrubs" will consider certain tactics or moves cheap or low level and will not use it. How do you come to the conclusion that because SOA is "considered" low level in a certain era, the fighters who employ SOA is low level?

2) In SPW, Beggar Union Chief Jie Feng could carve words on wood with his finger, whereas a LOCH Great would not. This means that Jie Feng > The Greats. Since Ren Woxing > Jie Feng (presumably), the gap between Ren Woxing and the Sweeper Monk/Dugu Qiubai is thus finely reduced, if there is such a gap any more.

Would not, or could not? Big difference.

3) In DGSD, no one could leap 5 zhang forward. In SPW, 2 ordinary fighters (by Linghu Chong standards) could effortlessly leap several zhang backward. Now, one can argue that leaping backwards is somehow easier than leaping forward, but they would both seem to require the same amount of effort due to the comparability of the feats. This means that the best leaper in DGSD might only be as good as some 4th level fighter in SPW. Since Ren Woxing > 4th rate fighters, the gap between Ren Woxing and the Sweeper Monk/Dugu Qiubai is again finely reduced, if there is such a gap any more.

Could not or did not?

If Yang Guo has better internal than Linghu Chong, than he should also consider the same 2 ordinary fighters ordinary. Since Yang Guo>Linghu Chong in internal, he should >"the best leaper" in DGSD.

[PJ]

CancerLuna: welcome to SPCNET wuxia forum.

In case you didn't pick up, this is a joke thread. Don't take anything seriously.

[CancerLuna]

CancerLuna: welcome to SPCNET wuxia forum.

In case you didn't pick up, this is a joke thread. Don't take anything seriously.

I did not kind sir. =O

[Ren Ying Ying]

Just because in that era, they consider it a low level skill, doesn't mean it is a low level skill. Just like in games, people that are "scrubs" will consider certain tactics or moves cheap or low level and will not use it. How do you come to the conclusion that because SOA is "considered" low level in a certain era, the fighters who employ SOA is low level?

by the very meaning of "cheap", of course

[Linghu]

SPW, Volume 4, Chapter 38:

Six to seven people leapt up at the same time slashing and thrusting their swords. Even though Linghu Chong and Yingying couldn't see those blind men, the distance between the jutting rock and the ground was around twenty feet. The people jumping up produced a lot of wind noise so they were easy to distinguish.

From this part of novel we can notice that in SPW, even the 4th or 3rd class fighters such as RYY, LPZ, and those blind men could jump up twenty feet (= approximatly 7 metres) easily! In which novel, you can remember that even the 4th or 3rd class fighters jump up 7 metres easily?

[Linghu]

Please campare these two parts of the SPW and LOCH:

SPW, Volume 3, Chapter 24:

Linghu Chong felt heartbroken and bitter. He couldn't check his anger as he pulled his long sword out, gathered his qi, pulled his arm back, drew a breath and threw the sword out. The sword flew out towards a tall tallow tree with a trunk of a few feet diameter wide. It went through the middle of the tree and severed it. Half of the tree started to shake before it crashed thunderously, throwing up stones and dust off the ground.

LOCH, Volume 3, Chapter 22:

He [Guo Jing] launched the 18-Dragon Subduing Palms, hacking down trees as big as a rice bowl cup in diameter.
…
But launching the 18-Dragon Subduing Palms took a lot of his energy. After a while he started to feel strained and numb. In less than an hour Guo Jing managed to knock down twenty one pine trees. While knocking down the twenty-second tree, Guo Jing's arm was already sore and tired. When he launched the Seeing Dragon in the Field, his palms were uneven; the branches and leaves were shaken, the trunk swayed but did not break; while he felt his chest tightened.

LCH just with threwing his sword out from distant, severed a tall tallow tree with a trunk of a few feet diameter wide. The area of this tree that he severed from distant in just a moment was probably bigger than the total area of the 21 trees that GJ knocked down and couldn't knock down 22st one;

If we suppose "a few feet diameter" equaled at least 100 cm and "a rice bowl cup in diameter" equaled at most 20 cm, than the radius of the three that LCH severed would be 50 cm and the eara of the that tree would be 7850 square cm:
50 * 50 * 3.14 = 7850 cm^2

and the radius of the trees that GJ hacked down would be 10 cm and the total area of those trees would be 6594 square cm:
10 * 10 * 3.14 = 314 cm^2
314 * 21 = 6594 cm^2

Even though it is right that GJ knocked down the trees with his palms, nevertheless we can imagine the tremendous internal energy of LHC campared to GJ.

Although GJ's internal energy later increased tremendously with the help of Nine Yin Manual, LCH's internal energy also increased tremendously through three agents: 1. sucking the internal energy of sevral masters aftewards, especially the remarkable enternal energy of YBQ; 2. practicing one of the best internal energy methods in the history of the wulin world, YJJ, the top shaolin internal enegy; 3. merging the different internal energies that he had sucked into his own internal enargy with the YJJ method.

[flamer]

The scope of improvement by LHC is uncomparable to GJ. GJ improved by A LOT. LHC admited he would have no chance even against a few relative scrubs without a sword.

[Ken Cheng]

Jin Yong's Art of BS had improved drastically by the time he wrote SPW compared to the CONDOR HEROES TRILOGY novels.

[ChronoReverse]

The scope of improvement by LHC is uncomparable to GJ. GJ improved by A LOT. LHC admited he would have no chance even against a few relative scrubs without a sword.

You could say that's a property of XAJH characters being able to use things like redirection of force and turning the opponents strength against themselves even with relatively low level skills (two things expounded to be amazingly profound in other novels).

Someone like LHC might have good strength because of his high internal energy, but that strength can be rendered void since he has no real bare handed skills at all.



The real BS is when you get so much internal energy that you can effectively ignore the opponent's strikes even against "vulnerable" spots. Even more BS is an entire novel conspiring to make such a character lose over and over anyway.

[Linghu]

The scope of improvement by LHC is uncomparable to GJ. GJ improved by A LOT. LHC admited he would have no chance even against a few relative scrubs without a sword.

But I said LCH improved later in regard of internal energy, not barehand fighting.

In regard of barehand fighting, even though it is right that LCH didn't improve much, others also couldn't hurt him because of his XXDF. If you can remember, the mother of Yilin, had better barehand martial arts of LCH, but couldn't touch any part of his body and at the end, only could grasp his head hair, the only part of his body that hadn't transformed internal energy, but she shaved his hair later and removed the only disadvantaged spot of LCH barehand kungfu.

If we suppose LCH had to fight against GJ with sword, GJ was not his match in swordmenship and if LCH had to fight against GJ with barehand kungfu, GJ couldn't touch any part of his body and because of tremendous internal energy of LCH, shooting internal energy from distant also couldn't probably hurt him. Even maybe LCH could absorb the shooting energy with his XXDF since the body of the ones who practised XXDF was like an empty valley that could absorb any internal energy that would reach their body.

[flamer]

I was referring to internal energy too. GJ improved drastically in both energy and techniques.

Even RWX can't absorb Fang Zheng's internal energy and I doubt it's as strong as GJ's 9 Yin internal. GJ wouldn't need to fight LHC using a sword, he could fight bare-handed and still win.