Further proof that Smiling Proud Wanderer era kung fu beats DGSD/Trilogy era kung fu

[Linghu]

I was referring to internal energy too. GJ improved drastically in both energy and techniques.

Even RWX can't absorb Fang Zheng's internal energy and I doubt it's as strong as GJ's 9 Yin internal. GJ wouldn't need to fight LHC using a sword, he could fight bare-handed and still win.

Firstly RWX couldn't absorb FZ's internal energy, because FZ with the unique character of YJJ could hide his internal energy from RWX, not because his internal energy was more powerful than RWX, although really was more powerful. XXDF had not this principle that you can't absorb internal energy of more powerful opponants. For example most of the people that DY absorbed their internal energy in DGSD had more powerful internal energy than him.

Secondly I think YJJ was the best internal energy in history of wulin since it was said in SPW, Ch. 18 that YJJ was written by the founder of Buddhism and the founder of martial arts, Bodhidharma who Buddhists regard him like an god.

9 Yin manual was written in accordance of taoism principles and was summarized of taoism teachings and included ways for defeating some different martial arts.

Since taoism martial arts also originates from shaolin and since the writer of YJJ was the founder of martial arts, I dout 9 Yin was better than YJJ in regard of internal energy.

But it is right that GJ lived many years in The Condor Tiology and practised 9 yin manual for dacades but LCH just learned YJJ in the end of SPW and the novel ended just when LCH reach his pinnacle of martial arts.

[Linghu]

Again please campare this two parts:
LOCH, Volume 3, Chapter 21:

Though his strength was tremendous, how could he move a thousand-pound rock?
…
They went over and stood beside him and the three pairs of hands pressed the rock together. Ouyang Feng said, "Up!" and they pushed at the same time. The rock moved an inch before slamming down again. Ouyang Ke screamed and his eyes rolled up.

SPW, Volume 2, Chapter 18:

Linghu Chong gasped with astonishment. The horse, a large beast, weighed at least five hundred pounds. He almost couldn’t believe his eyes when he watched Xiang Wentian booting it into the ravine with such a casual kick.

As you can see, the rock that OYF, GJ and HR couldn't move up more than an inch was one thousand pounds and the horse that XWT booted it into the ravine with a casual kick was at least five hundred pounds. Although the rock was double in weight than the horse,

Firstly, OYF, GJ and HR were three people but XWT was only one person;

Secondly OYF was one of the first class fighters in LOCH but XWT was 2nd or 3rd class fighter in SPW;

Thirdly XWT THREW the horse with a kick but the three couldn't move the rock slightly;

And fourthly XWT threw the horse with an CASUAL kick that indicate he didn't use his full power but the three since wanted to rescue OK, used their full power.

Therefore from this comparison, it may not be wrong that we conclude the internal energy of XWT was more powerful than the internal energy of GJ or OYF. Since in regard of internal power, XWT was 2nd or 3rd class in SPW and OYF was 1st class in LOCH, we can conclude that in regard of internal energy, the 2nd or 3rd class fighters in SPW were more powerful of 1st class fighters in LOCH.

[tape]

The rock was more than a thousand pounds. That might have just been an oversight in translation or on JY's part.

Even strong men of today shouldn't have too much trouble at least budging a thousand pounds.

[flamer]

Again please campare this two parts:
LOCH, Volume 3, Chapter 21:


SPW, Volume 2, Chapter 18:


As you can see, the rock that OYF, GJ and HR couldn't move up more than an inch was one thousand pounds and the horse that XWT booted it into the ravine with a casual kick was at least five hundred pounds. Although the rock was double in weight than the horse,

Firstly, OYF, GJ and HR were three people but XWT was only one person;

Secondly OYF was one of the first class fighters in LOCH but XWT was 2nd or 3rd class fighter in SPW;

Thirdly XWT THREW the horse with a kick but the three couldn't move the rock slightly;

And fourthly XWT threw the horse with an CASUAL kick that indicate he didn't use his full power but the three since wanted to rescue OK, used their full power.

Therefore from this comparison, it may not be wrong that we conclude the internal energy of XWT was more powerful than the internal energy of GJ or OYF. Since in regard of internal power, XWT was 2nd or 3rd class in SPW and OYF was 1st class in LOCH, we can conclude that in regard of internal energy, the 2nd or 3rd class fighters in SPW were more powerful of 1st class fighters in LOCH.

I've only read FZ vs RWX once and I remember that FZ's internal energy was extremely profound hence unable to absorb. Otherwise why would he be albe to 'hide' his internal?

I don't think we should compare the merits of YJJ vs 9 Yin. We won't get anywhere .

I believe the rock was 千斤, ie 500kg. Not sure about the horse in the SPW. 250kg and 500k+ is still a lot of difference. Again, you picked a scene where GJ was still unaccomplished in his martial arts. But yes, tape is probably right about the description, not surpising for Greats to unleash 千斤 attacks.

[PJ]

In my version of the text, it says:

那巨岩重达数万斤，岂是一人之力所能移动

The big rock weighed several tens of thousands of catties. No one man's strength can move it.

i.e. it weighed more than 20,000 catties.

There were 3 occasions in that chapter where it referenced the rock as 万斤 (weighing tens of thousands of catties), so I think that is what the author meant.

[ChronoReverse]

I've only read FZ vs RWX once and I remember that FZ's internal energy was extremely profound hence unable to absorb. Otherwise why would he be albe to 'hide' his internal?

Hiding it isn't a factor of strength but a unique property of YJJ. YJJ inherently features extreme control which is the reason why FZ is able to "hide" his internal energy. Yet another reason why YJJ is an ultimate internal energy art.


As for the stone thing, I have a feeling the boulder was massively heavy. The only problem with that is how the rock fell on OYK and OYK later still recovered. Frankly, such a heavy boulder should have practically severed OYK's legs from the pulping it would inflict.

[PJ]

Was it actually stated that Fangzheng did hide his internal energy from Ren Woxing? I do not recall this concealment being an inherent properly of Yijinjing, but as always I am happy to be enlightened.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Yes, it was explained during RWX's fight with ZLC that the reason he could not drain Fang Zheng's energy was because the latter was able to hide it, presumably using YJJ:

At the current fight, when Ren Woxing had not won after a while, he used the 'Art of Essence Absorbing' when their two palms clashed. But unexpectedly, he found that Zuo Lengchan's internal energy was completely empty and he did not know where it went to. Ren Woxing was greatly startled that he couldn’t absorb his opponent's inner energy. It was incredibly strange. Just before then he was also not able to absorb Fangzheng's inner energy, but it was because in a blink of an eye Fangzheng was able to hide his internal energy without a trace and made his 'Art of Essence Absorbing' powerless. Not only had he not experienced this before, even in his dream, he would never have thought that this kind of strange matter could happen.

[Banh Mi]

"Just before then he was also not able to absorb Fangzheng's inner energy, but it was because in a blink of an eye Fangzheng was able to hide his internal energy without a trace and made his 'Art of Essence Absorbing' powerless. Not only had he not experienced this before, even in his dream, he would never have thought that this kind of strange matter could happen."

Woops, RWX got there before me.

[tape]

So how did Zuo match palms with Ren while making it not absorbable ? It was implied his techniques/inner strength methods were not of the highest notch, but he attained great mastery over it and reached a pretty high level.


What does it mean for it to be completely empty? If it were empty, shouldn't he win his palm clash if he powered through? If he doesn't win, how is it empty?

[PJ]

Part of the translation is at odds with my version of the text.

此番和左冷禅再度相逢，一时未能取胜，当即运出“吸星大法”，与对
方手掌相交，岂知一吸之下，竟然发现对方内力空空如也，不知去向。任我
行这一惊非同小可。

At the current fight, when Ren Woxing had not won after a while, he used the 'Art of Essence Absorbing' when their two palms clashed. But unexpectedly, he found that Zuo Lengchan's internal energy was completely empty and he did not know where it went to. Ren Woxing was greatly startled...

The above translation (by Pokit) matches the original text. However, the next part of the translation does not.

对方内力凝聚，一吸不能吸到，那并不奇，适才便吸不
到方证的内力，但在瞬息间竟将内力藏得无影无踪，教他的“吸星大法”无
力可吸，别说生平从所未遇，连做梦也没想到过有这等奇事。

IMO, this part should be roughly translated as:

... When your opponent's internal energy is highly concentrated, failure to absorb it is not unusual, such as a moment ago with Ren Woxing failed to absorb Fangzheng's internal energy. However, that the opponent [Zuo Lengchan]'s internal energy suddenly disappears without a trace, and his 'Art of Essence Absorbing' detects no energy to absorb, is an unexpected twist that Ren Woxing has never encountered in his life, and could not have conceived in his dream.

Pokit's translation attributed the hiding of internal energy to Fangzheng, but in the original Chinese text, the hiding of energy is referring to Zuo Lengchan, not Fangzheng.

[ChronoReverse]

Your translation directly conflicts with what happens afterward when RWX was counting on ZLC to concentrate his internal energy into his finger attack in order to absorb it. This would not make any sense if it were not unusual for internal energy to be not absorbable when highly concentrated. Why would RWX want ZLC to concentrate his internal energy into the attack if that makes it more difficult to absorb it.

JY with another brainfart?

[Ren Wo Xing]

Hmm, judging from the original text, I agree, without a question it would seem that the 'hiding the energy' refers to Zuo Lengchan, not Fangzheng. My translation would be slightly different, but in essence the same:

对方内力凝聚，一吸不能吸到，那并不奇，适才便吸不到方证的内力，但在瞬息间竟将内力藏得无影无踪，教他的 “吸星大法”无力可吸，别说生平从所未遇，连做梦也没想到过有这等奇事。

When the opponent's internal energy is extremely condensed, failing to absorb it would not be too strange, as was the case earlier, when he was unable to absorb Fang Zheng's internal energy. But the ability to hide one's internal energy in the blink of an eye, causing it to vanish without a trace and thus leave no energy behind for his 'Art of Essence Absorbing' to absorb, was something he had never even dreamed of, much less encountered.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Your translation directly conflicts with what happens afterward when RWX was counting on ZLC to concentrate his internal energy into his finger attack in order to absorb it. This would not make any sense if it were not unusual for internal energy to be not absorbable when highly concentrated. Why would RWX want ZLC to concentrate his internal energy into the attack if that makes it more difficult to absorb it.

JY with another brainfart?

Different circumstances; in the first case, Fang Zheng's internal energy was evidently simply so dense and compact that there were no 'free floating' strands of internal energy he could latch onto and draw away. In the second case, ZLC would be actively pouring his internal energy into RWX with the acupoint strike, making the difficulty in absorption a moot point.

[PJ]

Ren Woxing wasn't counting on Zuo Lengchan to concentrate his energy. Zuo happened to do that on his own because he wanted to make sure Ren did absorb it. By then, Zuo had already exhausted much of his energy during his fight with Ren, so probably what he had left was safe to be absorbed.

I do think 'highly concentrated' implies 'highly abundant' as well. Meaning you must meet a certain quantity of concentration in order to resist being absorbed by Ren Woxing's Xixing Dafa.

In any case, the idea that Fangzheng hid his internal energy is not found in the original Chinese text of the referenced passage, and was most likely a translation error.

[Ren Wo Xing]

As an addendum, a perhaps better word is not 'concentrated', but 'condensed'. In this case, it would be like the difference between sucking up water in a glass via a tube, and trying to suck up water that had been condensed into ice.

[ChronoReverse]

Ren Woxing wasn't counting on Zuo Lengchan to concentrate his energy. Zuo happened to do that on his own because he wanted to make sure Ren did absorb it. By then, Zuo had already exhausted much of his energy during his fight with Ren, so probably what he had left was safe to be absorbed.

Perhaps I didn't word that well. The hidden part confused RWX as the quote above showed. Then ZLC launched a finger attack and RWX thought that if there's no internal energy in there then he'd just shrug it off whereas if his internal energy was there then RWX would be able to absorb it. That is, if ZLC was using his internal energy to attack, RWX expected to be able to absorb it.

It seems unusual that if it wasn't surprising that such a thing could make the internal energy not absorbable, that RWX would actually let ZLC hit him (since there's no guarantee he'd actually absorb the internal energy and negate the attack).

Of course ZLC had other plans but RWX didn't know that.



As for condensed and concentrated, what would the wording be for other forms of internal energy? If YJJ is the only one to be "condensed" then it's still an unique intrinsic property of it.

[Dirt]

How good was Zuo Lengchan? I remember reading here that he is perhaps the best amonst the 5 sword schools, but how was he in relation to the most powerful? Was he as good as Xiang Wentian?

[tape]

I think he was undoubtedly the best amongst the 5 schools, and Xiang was also better than all of the 5 schools. He should be in between Xiang and Ren.

[Linghu]

Thank PJ, flamer and tape for correcting my mistake about weight of Rock. But it was not my mistake and probably was the mistake of translator. It was exactly written a few times in IcyFox translation of chapter 21 of novel that the weight of rock was a thousand pound. Even the tittle of chapter was The Thousand-Pound Rock. You can read his translation here:
http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthread.php?t=20809
or:
http://wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin_yon..._shooting_hero

Anyway I apologize.