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Thread: Further proof that Smiling Proud Wanderer era kung fu beats DGSD/Trilogy era kung fu

  1. #1
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Default Further proof that Smiling Proud Wanderer era kung fu beats DGSD/Trilogy era kung fu

    For years, wuxia fans have been debating the placement of SPW era in the martial arts ranking hierarchy. Are people like Ren Woxing on par with the Greats, or are they below? Not very often do we think of Ren Woxing, Chongxu, Linghu Chong, Fangzheng etc as Sweeper Monk level, but now there are indeed some evidence that Ren Woxing is actually REALLY near Dugu Qiubai's level or even better. I present to you 3 such evidences.

    1) In SPW during Zuo Lengchan's fight with Ren Woxing, it is mentioned that the Sealing of Acupoints (SOA) is considered a low level skill, and that ANY good martial artist ( 高手 ) would not resort to this kind of cheap act. In DGSD, the Elite Jiumozhi used SOA in combat against Murong Fu, and another time he confirmed that the essence of the Flower-Massaging Finger, considered by many to be a Great-level supreme art of Shaolin, is to perform SOA. So, we have ample evidence that DGSD Elites use SOA, and yet according to SPW, the DGSD Elites like Xiao Feng and Jiumozhi are only considered LOW LEVEL martial artists. This means that Zuo Lengchan > Xiao Feng by a long shot. Since Ren Woxing > Zuo Lengchan, The gap between Ren Woxing and the Sweeper Monk/Dugu Qiubai is thus finely reduced, if there is such a gap any more.

    2) In SPW, Beggar Union Chief Jie Feng could carve words on wood with his finger, whereas a LOCH Great would not. This means that Jie Feng > The Greats. Since Ren Woxing > Jie Feng (presumably), the gap between Ren Woxing and the Sweeper Monk/Dugu Qiubai is thus finely reduced, if there is such a gap any more.

    3) In DGSD, no one could leap 5 zhang forward. In SPW, 2 ordinary fighters (by Linghu Chong standards) could effortlessly leap several zhang backward. Now, one can argue that leaping backwards is somehow easier than leaping forward, but they would both seem to require the same amount of effort due to the comparability of the feats. This means that the best leaper in DGSD might only be as good as some 4th level fighter in SPW. Since Ren Woxing > 4th rate fighters, the gap between Ren Woxing and the Sweeper Monk/Dugu Qiubai is again finely reduced, if there is such a gap any more.
    Last edited by PJ; 11-22-06 at 09:36 PM.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  2. #2
    Senior Member Loke-Gao-Zhu's Avatar
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    right...can they shoot air swords from their fingers? - no

    can they use force shield??

    alright.....end of the sarcasm

  3. #3
    TommyH
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loke-Gao-Zhu
    right...can they shoot air swords from their fingers? - no

    can they use force shield??

    alright.....end of the sarcasm
    how you know they can't? those arts were just lost along the way.

  4. #4
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    Can't we just give up and say that JY wrote whatever the hell he wanted XD

    (also half joking because I don't feel like discussion)

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    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    {Can't we just give up and say that JY wrote whatever the hell he wanted XD}

    I've fallen under that catagorey a long time ago =p...If the old memebers of the old forum went through 50 pages of debating and still could not come out with a solution....the logical conclusion is that there are no definitve answer to the question.

    Besides...Wuxia is only fiction and I think alot of people(my self included =( ) take this stuff a little too seriously sometimes. I honestly believe that JY's knowledge of his novels may be below some of the hardcore JY fans out there. =p
    wow..04-08....4 years just like that..time flies..

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    Senior Member Extremer88's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    it is mentioned that the Sealing of Acupoints (SOA) is considered a low level skill, and that ANY good martial artist ( 高手 ) would not resort to this kind of cheap act.
    Who said that in SPW? Erm.. Is it Jin Yong?

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    Not very often do we think of Ren Woxing, Chongxu, Linghu Chong, Fangzheng etc as Sweeper Monk level, but now there are indeed some evidence that Ren Woxing is actually REALLY near Dugu Qiubai's level or even better.
    Take for example, Feng Qingyang. He learn only a portion of DGQB's finest arts, but Ren Woxing is only around OR = Feng Qingyang. So how could RWX have any chance against DGQB?

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    In SPW, Beggar Union Chief Jie Feng could carve words on wood with his finger, whereas a LOCH Great would not.
    Did Lin Chaoying perform that also on a stone, I can't remember...

    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    This means that the best leaper in DGSD might only be as good as some 4th level fighter in SPW.
    Who's the best leaper in DGSD? Does qinggong count in the factor in choosing the best leaper. What about the 4th Evil Yun Zhonghe, who could possibly rival his qinggong in SPW? Possibly Dongfang Bubai only the only one who could surpass him. So it seems impossible SPW 4th level fighter = best leaper of DGSD. Considering the best leaper in DGSD isn't the lightning-quick 4th Evil.
    ..ext88

  7. #7
    Senior Member wang23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88
    Who said that in SPW? Erm.. Is it Jin Yong?



    Take for example, Feng Qingyang. He learn only a portion of DGQB's finest arts, but Ren Woxing is only around OR = Feng Qingyang. So how could RWX have any chance against DGQB?



    Did Lin Chaoying perform that also on a stone, I can't remember...
    I think Lin Chaoying only tricked WCY and was not really capable of writing on stone.

  8. #8
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Go PJ! Stir that pot of crap harder!
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  9. #9
    Senior Member batmankiller's Avatar
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    sometimes it's clear that JY INTENDED for a character to look suprior to others and taht it's WORKING AS INTENDED for it to be that their martial arts is higher. Yet you people who over anlyazed seemed to turn the tides.. i highly doubt JY did this while making the novel and tried to cover every single hole -.-"

  10. #10
    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    the whole debate is over who (we think) JY intended to be superior in martial arts (cross novels), and why so.

    ....though i doubt JY himself even bothered to compare his characters cross novels.

  11. #11
    Senior Member yittz's Avatar
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    Agreed, did JY even consider that fans would start comparing characters across novels? It's not even clear the rankings within a book, let along cross eras.

    To PJ: you only wrote evidence why SPW characters showed feets that > DGSD, but you didn't show all the feets that showed DGSD>SPW.
    Member of HYS fanclub -> click here to join group.

    Member of TC fanclub.

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    Quote Originally Posted by yittz
    ... To PJ: you only wrote evidence why SPW characters showed feets that > DGSD, but you didn't show all the feets that showed DGSD>SPW.
    The quote above sounds funny, because feet is used instead of feat! Now, if PJ is comparing SPW feet vs DGSD feet ...

  13. #13
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortsight
    The quote above sounds funny, because feet is used instead of feat! Now, if PJ is comparing SPW feet vs DGSD feet ...
    The irony of it all is that FEET is indeed the subject that is bandied around when we argue about DGSD vs SPW.

    Its always about XWT and his amazing imprint causing foot vs XF's mighty imprint erasing foot!
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

  14. #14
    Senior Member Ardor's Avatar
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    And lets not forget the Eagle Hero was not even a top class fighter in SPW, while he is a Great in ROCH.
    Burying his Dugu 9 Jian manual under an epitaph, Dugu Qiubai felt he has left his legacy for the next generation. He then moved to Shaolin to study Buddhism, sweep floors and tap elite fighters.

  15. #15
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Extremer88
    Who said that in SPW? Erm.. Is it Jin Yong?
    Yes, straight out of Jin Yong's mouth, he said that SOA is a mediocre act in SPW. And yet the Great-level fighters in DGSD are using it.

    Take for example, Feng Qingyang. He learn only a portion of DGQB's finest arts, but Ren Woxing is only around OR = Feng Qingyang. So how could RWX have any chance against DGQB?
    Hmm, Because the author implied so? The author also implied that Feng Qingyang isn't that far behind Dugu Qiubai with words straight out of Jin Yong's mouth.

    Did Lin Chaoying perform that also on a stone, I can't remember...
    Never.

    Who's the best leaper in DGSD? Does qinggong count in the factor in choosing the best leaper. What about the 4th Evil Yun Zhonghe, who could possibly rival his qinggong in SPW? Possibly Dongfang Bubai only the only one who could surpass him. So it seems impossible SPW 4th level fighter = best leaper of DGSD. Considering the best leaper in DGSD isn't the lightning-quick 4th Evil.
    The fact is, ordinary folks in SPW are possibly performing feats considered impossible in DGSD. Jin Yong said that no one in DGSD can leap 5 zhang.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    actually what the author meant was in the era of SPW, no one had advanced sealing techniques like yiyang finger or orchid whisking acupoints sealing in SPW. the best that was know by these experts fell into the third class category. however the sealing techniques from the condor triolgy era were first class techiques. even then in DGSD era, few experts had any technique even remotely close to yiyang finger technqiue. as for writing on wood, it was never said how deep the words were. they could have been scratches while in HSDS, weaker class fighters like the yuan bodyguards could make fingerprints in gold.
    THE KYSS OF THE SWORD IS DEADLY BUT EXQUSITE
    he's the strongest in history but he's the disciple.
    http://www.mangafox.com/manga/histor...ciple_kenichi/

  17. #17
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yittz
    but you didn't show all the feets that showed DGSD>SPW.
    Such as ___ ?
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    such as LQS blasting that ~ 50 feet palm energy while none in SPW could even strech 20 feet.
    法王正欲回掌相击,突听嗤嗤轻响一股柔和的气流涌向面门,正是一灯大师使出一阳指功夫,正面拦截。法王一直没将这白眉老僧放在眼内,那料到他这一指之功,竟是如此深厚
    此时一灯大师的一阳指功夫实已到了登峰造极、炉火纯青的地步,指上发出的那股罡气似是温淳平和,但沛然浑厚,无可与抗

  19. #19
    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whsie
    such as LQS blasting that ~ 50 feet palm energy while none in SPW could even strech 20 feet.
    Firstly, it is INCONCLUSIVE how far Li Qiushui's palm energy traveled. In my personal opinion, the description suggested that she was only able to hit Xuzhu due to Xuzhu slowing down and narrowing the distance gap, in other words the LDA is less than 50 feet. (actually, she could still hit him with multiple palms from 50 feet, but then again, Xiao Feng might be capable of the same thing)

    Secondly, even a 4th rate SPW fighter could do a 10 feet LDA. Dongfang Bubai being 10+ times better than Yue Hou, who knows what he is capable of. How many people in DGSD who are 10 times worse than Li Qiushui have shown LDA capabilities?
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    Yes, straight out of Jin Yong's mouth, he said that SOA is a mediocre act in SPW. And yet the Great-level fighters in DGSD are using it.
    Doesn't say anything. Simple acupoint-sealing techniques are mediocre in every era of martial arts, prehaps except those of today and of the past where martial arts are not worth mentioning.

    SPW consider SoA mediocre, and a form of cheat, therefore in order to show they were high-class, they refrained from using it and preferred to show off their pride skills. During the Trilogy and DGSD eras, however, SoA was an acceptable trick to employ. In fact, Greats like HYS even explored the various arts behind SoA, and if you are able to immobilise the opponent, you are very much the winner. You cannot say because the Great-level fighters are using it, it means they pale in comparison with the people from SPW.

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