Did Tse Tsun reach the level of an LOCH-era Great?

[Ken Cheng]

When Golden-Haired Lion King Tse Tsun first appeared in HEAVEN SWORD & DRAGON SABRE, he performed several feats at Mt. Wong Poon that were utterly amazing. If Tse Tsun had lived during the time of LOCH, I don't think that anyone short of the Greats could have emulated some of the feats he performed.

Tse Tsun was not a Greats-level fighter in HSDS. The Greats-level fighters of HSDS (of which there are only Cheung 3 Fung and Cheung Mo Gei) are no worse than comparable to the Greats from the end of ROCH. Nevertheless, based on feats alone, could we say that Tse Tsun (and by extension, the other Guardian Lords of the Ming Cult) had already achieved a level of martial arts equivalent to the Greats of LOCH?

[Whsie]

I still doubt it. Xie Xun at best is still inferior to the Du generation who are still weaker than the LOCH Greats.

[PJ]

could we say that Tse Tsun (and by extension, the other Guardian Lords of the Ming Cult) had already achieved a level of martial arts equivalent to the Greats of LOCH?

It is almost indisputable that one Du generation monk = at least 2 guardian lords, while Zhang Wuji = 3 Du monks. Therefore, Zhang Wuji =~ 6 guardian lords. If one guardian lord = one LOCH Great, then Zhang Wuji would =~ 4 ROCH Greats, making him on par with the Sweeper Monk.

Nevertheless, based on feats alone,

Which feats?

By the way, for the sake of everyone reading this, I would like to let it be known that based on selected feats, we can deduct that Taoist Buping and SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan have indeed reached the level of Tianshan Tonglao, surpassing Great Wheel Monk Jiumozhi, and trailing only behind the Sweeper Monk.

[Ken Cheng]

Which feats?

Swallowing the Sea Sand Sect's poison without any harm to himself, the use of 7 Seung Fists (which was no less impressive than Kiu Fung, Hung 7 Gung, or Gwok Jing's displays of Hong Lung 18 Palms), and of course, the Lion's Roar. Nobody outside of a Great in LOCH could do things like that.

[resident:alien]

How about XIE XUN vs ZBF?

[PJ]

the use of 7 Seung Fists (which was no less impressive than Kiu Fung, Hung 7 Gung, or Gwok Jing's displays of Hong Lung 18 Palms)

Not sure about that. While 7 Damages Fist did seem quite impressive judging from its deadly impact on the tree, it was proven useless against Reverend Kongjian's Diamond Body Invulnerability art.

and of course, the Lion's Roar. Nobody outside of a Great in LOCH could do things like that.

This might be a type-specific skill which doesn't reveal the character's overall martial arts. Consider that Yang Xiao's mastery of all weapons under heaven is also second to none, and yet his fancy display of versatility was not at all effective against one of the Du monks. I doubt that even the Sweeper Monk can display Yang Xiao's exquisite mastery of weapons, and yet, all that exquisite mastery doesn't mean a thing when facing a much stronger opponent, as proven by Yang Xiao's failure to perform effectively against the weakest of Du monks.

King of Green Bat Wei Yixiao's lightness kung fu may be another example. Maybe his lightness kung fu (short distance) is better than the Greats', but he's much weaker overall.

[Ken Cheng]

Not sure about that. While 7 Damages Fist did seem quite impressive judging from its deadly impact on the tree, it was proven useless against Reverend Kongjian's Diamond Body Invulnerability art.

How would you reckon the Hong Lung 18 Palms as used by its three greatest masters (Kiu Fung, Hung 7 Gung, Gwok Jing) would do against the good reverend's Diamond Body Invulnerability Art?

[Exodus]

How would you reckon the Hong Lung 18 Palms as used by its three greatest masters (Kiu Fung, Hung 7 Gung, Gwok Jing) would do against the good reverend's Diamond Body Invulnerability Art?

i think that Kiu Fung's hong long 18 palms would prove too much for the good reverend's DBIA...

[dracnom]

How would you reckon the Hong Lung 18 Palms as used by its three greatest masters (Kiu Fung, Hung 7 Gung, Gwok Jing) would do against the good reverend's Diamond Body Invulnerability Art?

To me, I think XL18Z would be more useless than 7SQ, 7SQ is affecting the interior ie, nerves, arteries, etc... of the body, doing no harm on the outside, therefore if DBIA is able to block that power, than XL18Z, which is affecting the exterior which in turns affects the interior, to my quess would be inferior to 7SQ.

[PJ]

To me, I think XL18Z would be more useless than 7SQ, 7SQ is affecting the interior ie, nerves, arteries, etc... of the body, doing no harm on the outside, therefore if DBIA is able to block that power, than XL18Z, which is affecting the exterior which in turns affects the interior, to my quess would be inferior to 7SQ.

Yes, but if Xiao Feng's XL18Z contains 10 times more power than Xie Xun's 7 Damages Fist, then its usefulness will be plain to see.

7 Damages Fist as practiced by Xie Xun seems to be a kung fu that sounds really sophisticated on the surface, but not all that useful in real combat. If I were to pick between an art that destroys a tree right away, versus an art that lets the tree die slowly in a couple of weeks, I would probably pick the first one with immediate impact.

[CC]

I don't think there is an art out there that can let a user withstand XF/GJ's full strength XL18Z. Unless Xu Zhu learns Diamond Body Art.

[Loke-Gao-Zhu]

i rate Xie Xun higher than all of the ming cult besides ZWJ and Yang Din Tian, his fighting spirit is as fierce as Kiu Feng