Why did Cheung Mo Gei single out Hung 7 Gung as the greatest Beggar's Union Chief?

[Ken Cheng]

When Cheung Mo Gei confronted Chan Yau Leung and other treacherous beggars in HSDS, Cheung criticized Chan, etc.'s actions by saying, "Aren't you concerned that your actions would sully the honor of Hung 7 Gung's name?"

North Beggar Hung 7 Gung was indeed one of the greatest Chiefs the Beggar's Union ever had. He was a great martial artist and a benign and wise leader, but there were other great Chiefs in the Beggar's Union's history. What about Kiu Fung? What about that legendary 11th generation Chief (who possibly was Kiu Fung)? What about Wong Yung? Why was Hung 7 Gung singled out by Cheung Mo Gei as the previous Beggar's Union Chief whose name Chan Yau Leung and his cohorts would not want to dishonor?

In the first editions of Jin Yong's novels, this comment is somewhat more understandable because according to the first edition of LOCH, Hung 7 Gung was the founder of the Beggar's Union and the creator of the Hong Lung 18 Palms and Dog Beating Stick Technique (he would be the Beggar's Union equivalent of Damo, Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung, or Cheung 3 Fung). From the second editions onward, however, Hung 7 Gung was the eighteenth generation Beggar's Union Chief...and he inherited rather than created the Hong Lung 18 Palms and Dog Beating Stick Technique. He was still a very special and honored Beggar's Union Chief in the union's history, but he was not the only one.

Moreover, although Hung 7 Gung was among the finest Beggar's Union Chiefs, the Union did endure some problems under his leadership. After all, it was during his tenure that the conflict between the Clean-Clothed and Dirty-Clothed Beggars grew to the point where it finally exploded into violence when Wong Yung took over as Chief. This, in turn, made the Union vulnerable to near usurpation by Yeung Hong.

Given all that, is there any reason why Cheung Mo Gei should have singled out Hung 7 Gung as *the* ultimate patriarch of the Beggar's Union?

[Yeung Gor]

JY when he wrote that part had the first edition H7G in mind, even though H7G is strip of his accomplishments, he is the most beloved by all the members of Beggar Clan. It's kinda sad that JY had to ruin some of the greatness H7G had esp in being the creator of Dragon Palms just to accomidate TLBB.

[CC]

Probably because if he used Qiao Feng, he would get blank stares from some people who would go 'Who?'

[CFT]

I think ZWJs martial history education was from his godfather Xie Xun. Maybe XX just didn't know much beyond 2/3 generations.

[Aventinus]

Same reason why we revere Abraham Lincoln I guess.

[PJ]

Given all that, is there any reason why Cheung Mo Gei should have singled out Hung 7 Gung as *the* ultimate patriarch of the Beggar's Union?

I reckon it's the same reason that when people in HSDS allude to Wu Lie or Zhu Changling, they have to add a line describing them as "the descendant of Wu Santong/Zhu Ziliu, who by the way was also the disciple of Reverend Yideng".

i.e. because ROCH would have been fresh on many readers' mind when Jin Yong wrote HSDS, so it's sensible to reference it AMAP (As Much As Possible).

[S Beaver]

H7G was more well known for his "xia-ness" or and dedication to Beggar's Clan.

on top of having world class martial arts, he had absolutely no scandals involved (ie. Xiao Feng) and he bothered to take care of matters within the Beggar's Clan (ie. not Huang Rong handing off all bussiness to Lu Youjiao to take care of).

also, H7G is more in association with "Beggar" than Xiao Feng. ie. his title is "Northern Beggar" whereas "North Xiao Feng, South Murong" doesn't really claim association with beggars.

[Dennis Chen]

Because DGSD hadn't been written yet. Besides, Xiao Feng wasn't Chief for very long and didn't really do much for the Beggar Clan as Chief. Plus, Xiao Feng was a dirty Khitan.

[PJ]

H7G was more well known for his "xia-ness" or and dedication to Beggar's Clan.

on top of having world class martial arts, he had absolutely no scandals involved (ie. Xiao Feng) and he bothered to take care of matters within the Beggar's Clan (ie. not Huang Rong handing off all bussiness to Lu Youjiao to take care of).

also, H7G is more in association with "Beggar" than Xiao Feng. ie. his title is "Northern Beggar" whereas "North Xiao Feng, South Murong" doesn't really claim association with beggars.

But don't forget in the third edition of LOCH, it is now mentioned that "Leader Qiao of the Northern Song Dynasty was the greatest hero in the history of the Beggar Brotherhood."

[S Beaver]

But don't forget in the third edition of LOCH, it is now mentioned that "Leader Qiao of the Northern Song Dynasty was the greatest hero in the history of the Beggar Brotherhood."

maybe "brotherhood" and "leader" are difference

[sarakoth]

When Cheung Mo Gei confronted Chan Yau Leung and other treacherous beggars in HSDS, Cheung criticized Chan, etc.'s actions by saying, "Aren't you concerned that your actions would sully the honor of Hung 7 Gung's name?"

North Beggar Hung 7 Gung was indeed one of the greatest Chiefs the Beggar's Union ever had. He was a great martial artist and a benign and wise leader, but there were other great Chiefs in the Beggar's Union's history. What about Kiu Fung? What about that legendary 11th generation Chief (who possibly was Kiu Fung)? What about Wong Yung? Why was Hung 7 Gung singled out by Cheung Mo Gei as the previous Beggar's Union Chief whose name Chan Yau Leung and his cohorts would not want to dishonor?

In the first editions of Jin Yong's novels, this comment is somewhat more understandable because according to the first edition of LOCH, Hung 7 Gung was the founder of the Beggar's Union and the creator of the Hong Lung 18 Palms and Dog Beating Stick Technique (he would be the Beggar's Union equivalent of Damo, Central Divinity Wong Chung Yeung, or Cheung 3 Fung). From the second editions onward, however, Hung 7 Gung was the eighteenth generation Beggar's Union Chief...and he inherited rather than created the Hong Lung 18 Palms and Dog Beating Stick Technique. He was still a very special and honored Beggar's Union Chief in the union's history, but he was not the only one.

Moreover, although Hung 7 Gung was among the finest Beggar's Union Chiefs, the Union did endure some problems under his leadership. After all, it was during his tenure that the conflict between the Clean-Clothed and Dirty-Clothed Beggars grew to the point where it finally exploded into violence when Wong Yung took over as Chief. This, in turn, made the Union vulnerable to near usurpation by Yeung Hong.

Given all that, is there any reason why Cheung Mo Gei should have singled out Hung 7 Gung as *the* ultimate patriarch of the Beggar's Union?

When HSDS was written, Qiao Feng didn't exist.

[shortsight]

Supposedly, H7G should be one of the slackest beggar chief, in pursuit of good food and missing in action. For me, H7G is the most colourful and entertaining chief rather than the greatest.

[S Beaver]

Supposedly, H7G should be one of the slackest beggar chief, in pursuit of good food and missing in action. For me, H7G is the most colourful and entertaining chief rather than the greatest.

He didn't care for the "chicken feather fart" matters, but he was supposedly always presnt when needed for the important events--save when he got injured by OYF. He was also well known for being "heroic".

[Ken Cheng]

When HSDS was written, Qiao Feng didn't exist.

There have been two revisions since then, however. This was one of things that should have been earmarked to be fixed.

[KeongJai]

Probably because if he used Qiao Feng, he would get blank stares from some people who would go 'Who?'

yeah. H7G probably was the most well known previous beggar chiefs at the time of HDSD. Just like GJ and HR, GX, condor hero were well known.

[PJ]

There have been two revisions since then, however. This was one of things that should have been earmarked to be fixed.

Jin Yong usually doesn't fix little trivial details like that. He's too busy fixing f*ck ups and incorporating his great new ideas.