LHC better than YG in sword art?

[Allen D]

I was readin some info on wikipedia and came across this this little passage.

"It was argued among fans that whether the Dugu Nine Swords or the Heavy Sword Technique is more advanced. While there is not a definite answer (from the writer or the book) to this question, there is a reference in the JinYong 100 Questions session during an interview:

Question: Did Yang Guo manage to learn Dugu Qiubai's swordsmanship? How advanced he was in the area of martial arts?

Answer (Jinyong): Partly because Dugu Qiubai had not passed on a complete record/script, his (Yang Guo) swordsmanship was not very strong. Yet his qi energy was stronger than Linghu Chong, as he had been training in the waterfall for sixteen years."

Now it doesn't say that LHC is superior in sword art, but can it be implied?

[sandy32]

Of course LHC is better then YG in sword art. Maybe YG has more inner power, but LHC is in a higher level in sword art. Because LHC knows the principle of Wugong movements: 无招胜有招 (Irregular movements are better than regular movements-- I dont know the exact expression in english)

[batmankiller]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that althoguh LHC learned all eight version of the sword stances, he wasn't able to use anything but the first three stances. Also the Dugu Nine stances.. are they for the wooden, or the heavy iron sword, or does it change after each stance.

I'd like this clarified before I make my assumption on who's sword arts was better

[MysteriouX]

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe that althoguh LHC learned all eight version of the sword stances, he wasn't able to use anything but the first three stances. Also the Dugu Nine stances.. are they for the wooden, or the heavy iron sword, or does it change after each stance.

I'd like this clarified before I make my assumption on who's sword arts was better

Actually the Dugu 9 Swords, each of the stances were designed for different types of weapons and opponents. So depending on the type of opponent and weapon he would face LHC would use a different stance out of the 9, the only stance that FQY didnt thoroughly teach was the last stance, Energy Breaking stance. FQY told LHC that it would develop as LHC gained more experience and understanding of martial arts.

[MysteriouX]

Now in comparison of YG and LHC, I still believe that IN OVERALL Yang Guo is much more powerful than LHC. Note that I did clearly say IN OVERALL.

However if we just look at sword skills and qi, then LHC would most likely have better skills, but I would have to doubt it would be enough to defeat YG if they ever dueled.

Also in the same Wiki page, I think it also mentioned that the Heavy Iron Sword YG practiced was described as
[quote take from Wikipedia]
"The Heavy Sword Technique requires the Heavy Sword (see below) to perform. It is stated in the book when Yang Guo was learning this technique, he commented that average swords would be broken right away once he exerted/ channelled his qi energy into the sword. The weight of the Heavy Sword would also boost the power of his thrusts and swings.

It should also be noted that Yang Guo managed to meet the qi energy requirement to attain Heavy Sword Technique by following the qi training process Dugu Qiubai undertook (guided by the Giant Condor). Later on,Yang Guo became one of the most powerful qi practitioners in his time. This can be used as the basis to evaluate the qi energy power of Dugu Qiubai."

So even if LHC and YG fought, I think that YG's strong qi would actually break LHC's sword if it ever came in contact. And (correct me if I am wrong) but I dont seem to recall FQY informing LHC about defeating a sword without a sword (and I think by the end of ROCH YG had reached Sword Without Sword level of skill, that he can use anything as a sword).

[batmankiller]

Oh right I forgot.
I think LHC's sword art was quite horrible, as his own martial art knowledge was very sloppy, he didn't really understand the art of dodge much due to the D9Swords saying only offensive is necessay, but YG knew background martial arts before this and he knows that he combines offense and defense, or at least his fights incoroporated from. This is also due to the fact that YG was used to defending and offensive and because his MA and internal energy wasn't enough to just be able to go all out.

LHC's only background in MA was D9Swords, while YG had partially that and Ancient Tomb and QuanZhen. Plus if we think about it, LHC's sword art isn't very good considering he almost got owned by a few "newbies" (compared to a great) while it was dark and he couldn't see the stances. A real martial artists should have good reflexes and "know" something without being able to thoroughly see the whole thing.

Hope you guys understand my point.

[MysteriouX]

Of all JY characters, LHC and YG are the only 2 I like in terms of how they progress in martial arts.

for them, 99% of the time they dont suddenly become powerful after just finishing reading a martial arts manual, they build upon their experiences, victories and defeats and many life/death battles they encounter.

While in HSDS for ZWJ, just by studying 9 Yang for 5 years in solitude, the instant he comes out of seclusion he is suddenly a powerful fighter and is capable of defeating many skilled people who has had many more years of battle experience than him.

Studying martial arts teach you the moves, but it is through experience that you learn how to correctly apply them and when to apply them.


And LHC isnt weak, he needs time and experience to comprehand the profound meanings of the DG9J. In fact his sword skills are one of the best I have read about so far.

[Ren Wo Xing]

LHC. He just randomly points his sword anywhere, and his enemies fall on it.

DG9J isn't a sword art, it's hacking into the Matrix.

[S Beaver]

So even if LHC and YG fought, I think that YG's strong qi would actually break LHC's sword if it ever came in contact. And (correct me if I am wrong) but I dont seem to recall FQY informing LHC about defeating a sword without a sword (and I think by the end of ROCH YG had reached Sword Without Sword level of skill, that he can use anything as a sword).

LHC has fought many a battles against opponents who have stronger internal energy and without needing to touch the opponent's weapons.

i also don't believe YG has reached Sword w/o Sword--at least not "true" form of sword w/o sword...afterall, YG didn't get the complete info on Dugu Qiubai's sword arts.

Oh right I forgot.
I think LHC's sword art was quite horrible, as his own martial art knowledge was very sloppy, he didn't really understand the art of dodge much due to the D9Swords saying only offensive is necessay, but YG knew background martial arts before this and he knows that he combines offense and defense, or at least his fights incoroporated from. This is also due to the fact that YG was used to defending and offensive and because his MA and internal energy wasn't enough to just be able to go all out.

Of cos LHC knows defense...his offensive is his defense...you can't get better than that. afterall, just defending wouldn't get you anywhere.
And whether LHC's previous sword art was good or not doesn't seem affect his great ability to improvise stunning stances, which RWX couldn't even beat and DFBB was amazed by.

LHC. He just randomly points his sword anywhere, and his enemies fall on it.

DG9J isn't a sword art, it's hacking into the Matrix.

lol, i just couldn't help but quote it...

[Ren Wo Xing]

It's the truth.

Also, YG even himself admits that he hasn't mastered the Wooden Sword stage, as can be shown by the fact that when he tried to use the regular sword the same way as he would use the Dark Iron Sword, the sword snapped and broke.

[duguxiaojing]

{lol, i just couldn't help but quote it...}


Its not quite as good as "LHC points out his sword and everybody and their grandma runs into it." LOL

[Ren Wo Xing]

That's also the truth!

[PJ]

Because LHC knows the principle of Wugong movements: 无招胜有招

It's the same principle that Yang Guo knows. Simply swing the sword and win.

[batmankiller]

i don't recall YG losing against two noobs in the night.. i mean sure he can be god.. but he's shit just because he can't see the opponent's moves.. then that's nothing. I do recall this topic being sword art and not just Dugu 9 Swords.. although it's reasonable considering it is probably the strongest sword art.

Although he could defend using offense, his martial sensibility was horrible considering he couldn't "sense" or "approximate" the position of a sword art in the dark.. that's really bad martial art coordination which might've suggested that although he knew how to weild a sword and pwn people, he couldn't adjust.. what kind of sword art is that? Dugu9Sword theory is where you can forget the stances and in any circumstance be able to use the "forgotten" stances.. but apparently LHC can't do that.. considering he gets owned just cuz he can't see the stances..

[ChronoReverse]

I let this go the first time but LHC didn't lose against "noobs" in the dark.

In the cave scene, he was fighting against fairly strong fighters who were trained to fight in the darkness. LHC was suddenly plunged into darkness and obviously would be at a great disadvantage.

Even if you use "no move" if you are detecting your opponent slightly slower than normal, it wouldn't be of much use when it misses. SoD may be filled with magical sword moves, but it's not so magical that even missing will hit.

[S Beaver]

i don't recall YG losing against two noobs in the night.. i mean sure he can be god.. but he's shit just because he can't see the opponent's moves.. then that's nothing. I do recall this topic being sword art and not just Dugu 9 Swords.. although it's reasonable considering it is probably the strongest sword art.

Although he could defend using offense, his martial sensibility was horrible considering he couldn't "sense" or "approximate" the position of a sword art in the dark.. that's really bad martial art coordination which might've suggested that although he knew how to weild a sword and pwn people, he couldn't adjust.. what kind of sword art is that? Dugu9Sword theory is where you can forget the stances and in any circumstance be able to use the "forgotten" stances.. but apparently LHC can't do that.. considering he gets owned just cuz he can't see the stances..

i don't recall this topic asking who is the better swordsman in the dark....
and how could there be forgotten stances if there is no stance in the first place?

[pokit]

I think batmankiller was referring to the scene when LHC was chasing these two people from Songshan in the night after they had stolen the PXJF. It was actually said that he got hit because he wasn't experienced enough. But it did say afterwards that he couldn't fight back because there was no light for him to see their moves.

BUT, in the following chapter, he fought three people, who I assumed to be on par with those two, with his back turned toward them. He was winning without even looking because he can sense the swords.

So I guess he's improved tremendously between those two events.

[batmankiller]

i don't recall this topic asking who is the better swordsman in the dark....
and how could there be forgotten stances if there is no stance in the first place?

there are stances.. you learn the basics and then you forget them.. much like the taichi sword art.. that Z3F made.. if they're are no stances.. then you'd just be swinging a sword.. uh no.. no unless you have the dragon sabre, even then an agil swordsman would get you. i hardly doubt the sword is god if you dunno how to use it. You still have to learn the basics from a normal sword.. (which YG skipped because the condor thought he was more advanced) to the heavy iron, and to the wooden. After you know sword stances, you then forget them and let them come out naturally.

True it's not aout who's the best swordsman in the dark, but if he can't win without light, what kind of a swordsman is that, you're refined to just one type of match and can't compromise with your surroundings? To me that's the exact opposite of the D9S, which is wat I said in my earlier post. You're supposed to know how to compromise the opponent's weapon to know basically "how to swing the sword (briefly and then 'make it up' along the way)" and then incorporate it along the way. The fact that there was no stances is varied and just means that you look at the way to swing it and then try to incoroporate it to your own swings, hence you don't start off with the dark iron sword unless your already advanced in swords, which YG was.

[sandy32]

It's the same principle that Yang Guo knows. Simply swing the sword and win.

Apparently, YG doesn't know the principle very well. Or why does he invent the Sad Palm and use it?

[PJ]

Apparently, YG doesn't know the principle very well. Or why does he invent the Sad Palm and use it?

I would think Because his sad personality did not suit the sword art very well. It required a sad technique