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Thread: Did the Mo Dong Heroes believe too easily that CMG murdered MSG?

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default Did the Mo Dong Heroes believe too easily that CMG murdered MSG?

    When the Mo Dong 4 Heroes (Sung Yeun Kiu, Yu Lin Chou, Cheung Chung Kai, and Yan Lei Ting) saw Cheung Mo Gei carrying the corpse of their murdered youngest martial brother, Mok Sing Guk, they immediately believed that Cheung Mo Gei had murdered his martial uncle...just because Cheung Mo Gei happened to be in the company of Chiu Mun, who had given the Mo Dong Heroes and other Chinese wulin warriors trouble before.

    I really thought the Mo Dong Heroes should have been smarter than that. They'd known Cheung Mo Gei since he was a child. They knew what kind of person he was (honest, kind, and filial), and he had only recently done so much good for all of them (cured Yan Lei Ting and Yu Doi Nam of their crippling injuries, defended the Mo Dong Sect from Chiu Mun's warriors, set up the marriage of Yan Lei Ting and Yeung But Fui, rescued the Mo Dong Heroes and other wulin leaders from Man On Pagoda, etc.). How could the Mo Dong Heroes let themselves be so easily convinced that Cheung Mo Gei could have killed Mok Sing Guk? Just carrying Mok's corpse doesn't indicate guilt, and even Chiu Mun's presence doesn't prove anything. The Mo Dong Heroes didn't usually show such dubious judgment.

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    Senior Member Huang Rong's Avatar
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    Zhao Min was extremely beautiful and mischievous while Zhang Wuji was an inexperienced amorous young man so there's nothing strange that his martial uncles had doubts about him.
    They all knew very well that: 英雄難過美人關 - (Ying xiong nan guo mei ren guan) - Even a hero finds it hard going against a beauty. ^.^
    Yang Guo & Zhou Botong said in Chapters 6, 11 & 25 of ROCH:
    - 这道姑也算得美了,只是还不及桃花岛郭伯母,更加不及我姑姑。
    - 原来郭伯母竟是这般美貌,小时候我却不觉得。
    - 龙姑娘,我瞧你品貌才智,和那小黄蓉不相上下,武功也跟她差不离。

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    I still feel that the Mo Dong Heroes jumped to a conclusion here that is out-of-character for them. They aren't rash people with poor judgment. What they saw and heard did not add up to Cheung Mo Gei murdering Mok Sing Guk, especially considering what they knew about his character.

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Z3F summed it up best when he asked ZWJ not to be angry at his uncles if they do anything to offend him

    "They are like brothers, and emotions can cloud a person's judgement"

    The heroes saw red when they saw ZWJ carrying the corpse and could not think rationally. Even Z3F had his doubts.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    Z3F summed it up best when he asked ZWJ not to be angry at his uncles if they do anything to offend him

    "They are like brothers, and emotions can cloud a person's judgement"

    The heroes saw red when they saw ZWJ carrying the corpse and could not think rationally. Even Z3F had his doubts.
    I thought it was a HUGE leap from "he's carrying Mok's body" to "he must have murdered Mok."

    It's a leap I've never been able to make with them. Sure, Chiu Mun was there, which would have looked weird to them, but all he was "guilty" of was being in the same room with her.

    I think the whole scenario was pretty contrived myself.

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I thought it was a HUGE leap from "he's carrying Mok's body" to "he must have murdered Mok."

    It's a leap I've never been able to make with them. Sure, Chiu Mun was there, which would have looked weird to them, but all he was "guilty" of was being in the same room with her.

    I think the whole scenario was pretty contrived myself.
    But you are seeing events from a detached third person perspective, sure if we calmly analyse the situation we can see the flaws in the set up.

    However the heroes had just discovered the corpse of their brother in the hands of someone they loved as a son. Emotions were running high and rational went out the window.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    But you are seeing events from a detached third person perspective, sure if we calmly analyse the situation we can see the flaws in the set up.

    However the heroes had just discovered the corpse of their brother in the hands of someone they loved as a son. Emotions were running high and rational went out the window.
    I just can't get into the Heroes' boots on this one. If I had a nephew who was always known to be a good guy who never got into trouble, and he came in carrying the dead body of my younger brother, I'd be shocked and dismayed that my brother is dead, but I doubt that I'd start thinking that it was my nephew who killed him. If the nephew was a violent jerk who had a long history of erratic, violent behavior, things would be different, but if the nephew's entire history was one of respect, kindness, and helpfulness, I couldn't make that leap of logic unless there was an obvious and irrefutable smoking gun right then and there.

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    Senior Member Mandred Skavenslayer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    I just can't get into the Heroes' boots on this one. If I had a nephew who was always known to be a good guy who never got into trouble, and he came in carrying the dead body of my younger brother, I'd be shocked and dismayed that my brother is dead, but I doubt that I'd start thinking that it was my nephew who killed him. If the nephew was a violent jerk who had a long history of erratic, violent behavior, things would be different, but if the nephew's entire history was one of respect, kindness, and helpfulness, I couldn't make that leap of logic unless there was an obvious and irrefutable smoking gun right then and there.
    Don't forget the actual murderer was just that, a nephew/son who never got into trouble before, was always polite and respectful to his elders.

    Yes the original conclusion of the heroes was wrong, but could so easily have been right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandred Skavenslayer View Post
    Don't forget the actual murderer was just that, a nephew/son who never got into trouble before, was always polite and respectful to his elders.
    Which just made the Heroes' reaction even more inexplicable. Considering everything that they knew about Mo Gei, they should have given him the benefit of the doubt. Besides, there was no smoking gun. He carried the corpse of a man who had already been dead for weeks, if not months (makes you wonder how Mok Sing Guk hadn't rotted down to a skeleton in the interim).

    Yes the original conclusion of the heroes was wrong, but could so easily have been right.
    I don't know...the "evidence" they had against Cheung Mo Gei seemed as flimsy a Dixie cup against a tsunami.

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    There wasn't much time between the Wudang brothers thinking that Zhang Wuji might be connected in some way with Mo Shenggu's death and being disabused of that idea. When the four brothers fought against ZWJ, Zhang Songxi tricked him into allowing him to remove the veil/mask he was wearing. When ZWJ finally subdued all of them, there was some abuse between the Wudang brothers (aimed at ZWJ) and Zhao Min (aimed at the Wudang brothers), but it wasn't long before they overheard Song Qingshu and Chen Youliang arriving. In the usual HSDS manner, the characters then got to eavesdrop on a plot-explaining conversation between them. I'd say that, even stretching things out abit, the Wudang brothers' mistaken idea that ZWJ was responsible for MSG's death lasted less than 2 hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pannonian View Post
    There wasn't much time between the Wudang brothers thinking that Zhang Wuji might be connected in some way with Mo Shenggu's death and being disabused of that idea. When the four brothers fought against ZWJ, Zhang Songxi tricked him into allowing him to remove the veil/mask he was wearing. When ZWJ finally subdued all of them, there was some abuse between the Wudang brothers (aimed at ZWJ) and Zhao Min (aimed at the Wudang brothers), but it wasn't long before they overheard Song Qingshu and Chen Youliang arriving. In the usual HSDS manner, the characters then got to eavesdrop on a plot-explaining conversation between them. I'd say that, even stretching things out abit, the Wudang brothers' mistaken idea that ZWJ was responsible for MSG's death lasted less than 2 hours.
    That's better. In HSDS '86, these events spanned two episodes, but created the impression that the Mo Dong Heroes mistakenly thought Cheung Mo Gei was a murderer for several weeks or even months.

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    When the 4 Wudang brothers entered the cave with the corpse, ZM immediately attacked them then fled on horseback. While the four pursued her, ZWJ carried the corpse out and ran in the opposite direction, then doubled back to look for ZM. She had been knocked down a ravine, so ZWJ started healing her when the four brothers came back after discovering the corpse, and threatened to crush them with a boulder unless they came up. ZWJ covered his face so that they wouldn't recognise him, came up, then subdued his uncles with his newly learnt Persian martial arts, only to have his identity discovered when Zhang Songxi faked a seizure after all the brothers were subdued and pulled off ZWJ's disguise when he came close.

    While it still does not logically follow that ZWJ killed Mo Shenggu, it sure looks very suspicious!

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