The Official Kiu Fung vs. Gwok Jing Thread

[CC]

But Xuzhu was even cautious about Ding Chunqiu's stupid hits. I think he may have reached the peak of extremity in CAUTION.

CAUTION GOD Xuzhu

I did put the caveat about his caution in the first line.

Theoretically, when fighting unarmed opponents, he should be able to put his right hand over his eyes,left covering his nuts and just stand there all day.

I wonder if JY, after writing near to the end suddenly realised, "WTF?? I just gave this idiot 10x the power of my ROCH Martial Sages and if I don't make him cautious, its going to look stupid when he fights'.

[Yeung Gor]

I did put the caveat about his caution in the first line.

Theoretically, when fighting unarmed opponents, he should be able to put his right hand over his eyes,left covering his nuts and just stand there all day.

I wonder if JY, after writing near to the end suddenly realised, "WTF?? I just gave this idiot 10x the power of my ROCH Martial Sages and if I don't make him cautious, its going to look stupid when he fights'.

I think JY was on a testosterone high when he wrote DGSD.

[duguxiaojing]

2. Xiao Feng can launch deadly LDAs; Greats can't launch deadly LDAs (evidenced by performances).

Just read the latest installment of the LOCH translation, and im pretty convinved thay OYF can launch a LDA...or at least a SDA . His palm attacks can injure others without him actually making contact is what im trying to get at.

[Huang Rong]

Just read the latest installment of the LOCH translation, and im pretty convinved thay OYF can launch a LDA . His palm attacks can injure others without him actually making contact is what im trying to get at.

Yeah, I've just read the new instalment of Foxs' too. The pre-fire-deviated Ouyang Feng DID launch a LDA towards my Dad, Huang Yaoshi! Luckily, Mei Chaofeng zizi sacrificed herself to save him
Well, but I don't think that LDA of Ouyang Feng's was able to reach Xiao Feng's level since the house where they were fighting was rather small. IMO, Ouyang Feng was at most 1 zhang far away from my Dad at that time.

[Ken Cheng]

I must say that this turned out to not be as one-sided as I thought it'd be. So far, as of this post, at least ten people have given Gwok Jing the chance to either tie with or possibly even defeat Kiu Fung.

I'll confess my secret shame: I voted for Kiu Fung, even though I'm more of a Gwok Jing fan.

[Dennis Chen]

Can a 20 year old GJ defeat a 30 year old Xiao Feng? Not a chance. Can a 30 year old Guo Jing defeat a 30 year old Xiao Feng? A draw wouldn't be out of the question. Can a 36 year old Guo Jing defeat a 30 year old Xiao Feng? It's looking better. Can a 56 year old Guo Jing defeat a 32 year old Xiao Feng? Probably.

[PJ]

Recently I am really beginning to favor the notion that the Greats are just 3rd tier SPW level fighters. That would make a lot of things easy to explain.

[Huang Rong]

I'll confess my secret shame: I voted for Kiu Fung, even though I'm more of a Gwok Jing fan.

LOL , that was not a shame Senior Master, I'd call that objective and honest.

Recently I am really beginning to favor the notion that the Greats are just 3rd tier SPW level fighters. That would make a lot of things easy to explain.

There's a problem, that is LDA seems not to be able to be used for classifying the fighters in Xiao Ao Jiang Hu since the 1st and 2nd tier masters: Fang Zheng and Fang Sheng, could only seem to lauch their LDAs over the distance of 1 zhang at most.
And I don't think that would make things easier to explain since if that was the case then Dongfang Bubai would be as powerful as Xu Zhu.

[ChronoReverse]

There's a problem, that is LDA seems not to be able to be used for classifying the fighters in Xiao Ao Jiang Hu since the 1st and 2nd tier masters: Fang Zheng and Fang Sheng, could only seem to lauch their LDAs over the distance of 1 zhang at most.

Wait what?

[Huang Rong]

Here are the quotes from which I deduce that Fang Zheng executed a 1 zhang LDA.

“I don’t want to see him. You muddle with him,” the granny declared.
“All right,” Linghu Chong answered as the scrubs by his side rustled. The granny had hidden herself among the bushes.
“Uncle-Master, that Linghu Chong is wounded. He can’t walk very fast,” Xin Guoliang’s voice rose again.
There was actually still quite a distance between them, but because Xin Guoliang’s voice was simply too loud, even just a casual remark from him would make its way into Linghu Chong’s ears clearly.
“So he came with his Uncle-Master,” Linghu Chong thought. Since they’ve already seen him, he decided to just sit by the side of the path and wait for them.

Linghu Chong stepped closer.

With a loud whoosh, Yi Guozi had flown back out from the bush and after gliding tens of feet in the air.

“Friend, if you insist on not showing yourself, please excuse the old monk’s discourtesy then!” Fang-Sheng exclaimed as he retracted his arms slightly, and immediately, energy soared inside his two sleeves, inflating them like two large balloons. He pushed his arms forward and the powerful force shot out from his palms. A loud crack exploded in the air as the dozens of scrubs all broke from the middle and small branches and leaves swirled in the midair. Right at that moment, a shadow leapt out from the remains of the bushes.

[ChronoReverse]

What I mean, is that doesn't preclude in any sense the possibility of them launching LDA that's even further. Especially since FS is below FZ.

[Huang Rong]

As for Abbot Fang Zheng's LDA:

He watched for a while longer and suddenly saw Ren Woxing pushing out with both hands forcing Great Master Fangzheng to retreat three steps. Linghu Chong was alarmed. "Ayo, this is bad, Great Master Fangzheng is going to lose."
After that he saw Great Master Fangzheng's left palm drew a few circles while his right palm struck out. It struck out to the top, bottom, left, and right. After striking out a few times, Ren Woxing retreated a step. After a few more strikes, Ren Woxing retreated a step again.

The two palms clashed and they both retreated a step. Ren Woxing felt that even though his opponent's internal energy was soft, it was abundant and matchless. He also used his "Art of Essence Absorbing" but unexpectedly he could not absorb Great Master Fangzheng's internal energy at all. He was confounded.
Great Master Fangzheng said, "Well done! Well done!" and followed with his right palm striking out. Ren Woxing again struck his right palm out to meet it. Both people faltered from the impact. Ren Woxing felt his whole body shaken and immediately took two steps backwards. When his second step landed, he turned his body around and his right hand shot out and grabbed Yu Canghai's chest. Then, he raised his left hand to smash it down on Yu Canghai's head.

Everyone gasped in surprise while Great Master Fangzheng leapt and struck his two palms out. It was as if he was flying as he rushed at Ren Woxing aiming at the back of his head. This move was known in martial study as 'attacking the enemy's rear in order to make him give up his own attack' and the enemy would have no choice but to rescue himself. The aim of this attack was to make Ren Woxing withdraw his own attack towards Yu Canghai's head and turn around to block the incoming attack.

When the Shaolin Abbot attacked him to free Yu Canghai, he did not try to block or parry Great Master Fangzheng's strike but seized his fatal acupoint instead. At that time, his plan reached its most dangerous point. The two palms of Great Master Fangzheng that were aiming at the back of his head did not need to actually reach his head to kill him. The wind from the palms was fully capable of bursting his skull open.

[ChronoReverse]

Again, it doesn't show the limit of the range but merely he has range.

[Huang Rong]

It does.
Coz if Fang Zheng could lauch his LDA over a distance which was farther than ~ 1 zhang, why did he bother to *clash palms* with Ren Woxing?
And why could Ren Woxing grab Yu Canghai's chest after stepping backwards just 2 steps?
Because the bystanders were standing close to the fighters.
And why were they standing close to the fighters?
Because they were all *aware* of the fact that Fang Zheng's and Ren Woxing's LDAs could *not* travel over the distance of more than 1 zhang.

[Ken Cheng]

Somehow, in a thread debating the prowess of the hero of DGSD and the hero of LOCH, we've gotten deeply into discussion about a novel that neither hero appeared or was even mentioned in.

[ChronoReverse]

It does.
Coz if Fang Zheng could lauch his LDA over a distance which was farther than ~ 1 zhang, why did he bother to *clash palms* with Ren Woxing?
And why could Ren Woxing grab Yu Canghai's chest after stepping backwards just 2 steps?
Because the bystanders were standing close to the fighters.
And why were they standing close to the fighters?
Because they were all *aware* of the fact that Fang Zheng's and Ren Woxing's LDAs could *not* travel over the distance of more than 1 zhang.

No. Because there's no way RWX or the crowd could know the limit of FZ's range. How would they know? They only know that FZ and RWX are very powerful. 2 steps is very ambiguous in wuxia, especially for strong fighters who could hop backwards 10 zhang easily (as evidenced by LHC).

Besides, except in special cases (e.g. XF's patented triple merged LDA), a LDA is wasteful and a direct palm would be more powerful. Furthermore, they started the battle in close range; it wouldn't make any sense to concentrate energy to launch an LDA. They were competing martial arts, not sheer blasting power. Hence a fight of stances, although their internal energy was rising all throughout that battle.

In the same way, XF vs MRF & YTZ wasn't a battle of LDAs; it doesn't make sense when you started out close. XF only launched his LDA when he's out of palm range.

[Huang Rong]

2 steps is very ambiguous in wuxia, especially for strong fighters who could hop backwards 10 zhang easily (as evidenced by LHC).

Jin Yong used the words *step backwards* 退步 not the words *hop/jump backwards* 跃退.

No. Because there's no way RWX or the crowd could know the limit of FZ's range. How would they know? They only know that FZ and RWX are very powerful. 2 steps is very ambiguous in wuxia, especially for strong fighters who could hop backwards 10 zhang easily (as evidenced by LHC).

They knew, because Jin Yong seemingly limited the max range of LDA in XAJH era to be ~= 1 zhang, just like the way he limited the max range of a LDA in DGSD era to be about 5 zhangs. It would be very desperate for the bystanders to stand within the effect radius of the palm energy of the fight.

[duguxiaojing]

Didnt FZ have to jump forward to kill some distance before launching his LDA vs RWX? It explicty stated that his palm power could split RWX's head open before his attack reached him...but not sure how far away he was from RWX. IIRC anyways...been a while since i first read that part.

[ChronoReverse]

Jin Yong used the words *step backwards* 退步 not the words *hop/jump backwards* 跃退.

So the fight moved closer to one side.

Do you honestly think that they were crowded in a circle 1 zhang in radius? That's not enough room for a street fight, much less a moving wuxia fight.

They knew, because Jin Yong seemingly limited the max range of LDA in XAJH era to be ~= 1 zhang, just like the way he limited the max range of a LDA in DGSD era to be about 5 zhangs. It would be very desperate for the bystanders to stand within the effect radius of the palm energy of the fight.

That's completely your conjecture. The narrator didn't state such a thing. Furthermore, we already have the examples of the lower tiered characters being able to get that kind of distance easily.

[Huang Rong]

Didnt FZ have to jump forward to kill some distance before launching his LDA vs RWX? It explicty stated that his palm power could split RWX's head open before his attack reached him...but not sure how far away he was from RWX. IIRC anyways...been a while since i first read that part.

"some distance" in that scene was as long as 2 - 3 steps of Ren Woxing, that is it was ~ 1 zhang.

Do you honestly think that they were crowded in a circle 1 zhang in radius? That's not enough room for a street fight, much less a moving wuxia fight.

I think the radius of the crowd at that time was 1 zhang long.
But I think the fighters decided the radius of the crowd, not the radius of the crowd decided the way the fighters executed their MAs.

That's completely your conjecture. The narrator didn't state such a thing. Furthermore, we already have the examples of the lower tiered characters being able to get that kind of distance easily.

Yes, my conjecture. But my conjecture was based on the novel.
In DGSD, while fighting in the Shaolin temple, Ding Chunqiu and Murong Fu had to leap backward 3 zhangs to be on alert against Xiao Feng.
In Xiao Ao Jiang Hu, the 3 fights also occured in a ground of the Shaolin temple, there must have been a lot of room for the fighters to perform any move/stance which they wanted.
Why XAJH masters didn't do what Morong Fu and Ding Chunqiu did? Why did they stand close to Fang Zheng and Ren Woxing within only 1 zhang?