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Thread: Abbot Xuanci

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Default Abbot Xuanci

    Do you think Xuanci was the abbot of Shaolin when the pre-30 years incident of attacking Xiao Yuanshan happened? I have trouble envisioning a 30 some year old person reaching the status of abbot of the most important monastery in the middle kingdom.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member Huang Rong's Avatar
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    I can't answer your question but I have another doubt:
    Is Sweeper Monk the *father* of Abbot Xuanci?!?
    Yang Guo & Zhou Botong said in Chapters 6, 11 & 25 of ROCH:
    - 这道姑也算得美了,只是还不及桃花岛郭伯母,更加不及我姑姑。
    - 原来郭伯母竟是这般美貌,小时候我却不觉得。
    - 龙姑娘,我瞧你品貌才智,和那小黄蓉不相上下,武功也跟她差不离。

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    Member Edmund Lau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    Do you think Xuanci was the abbot of Shaolin when the pre-30 years incident of attacking Xiao Yuanshan happened? I have trouble envisioning a 30 some year old person reaching the status of abbot of the most important monastery in the middle kingdom.
    He was, at least, a very high-ranking monk to be able to command so many renowned people - at least important enough for Murong Bo to consider manipulating. His scandalous relationship with Ye Er-Niang was so scandalous simply because this guy was seducing young girls even as a high-ranking monk! Even fathering a son in secret. Personally, I have a very low opinion of Xuanci. I always picture him as some lecherous Catholic priest - you know the kind who will touch altar boys in *uncomfortable spots* (no, not the back of a Volkswagen) when other people are not looking.

    ~ Edmund Lau
    Read my blogs at: Uncle Screwtape's Blogspot

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edmund Lau
    Personally, I have a very low opinion of Xuanci. I always picture him as some lecherous Catholic priest - you know the kind who will touch altar boys in *uncomfortable spots* (no, not the back of a Volkswagen) when other people are not looking.

    ~ Edmund Lau
    Ah, this seems to be the common sentiment from readers, but I personally think that Xuanci as we saw in the novel is a good man, and I hold the same opinion about Duan Zhengchun (whom many readers also perceive to be awful). Xuanci made a mistake in the past, but is that really worse than teenage Qiao Feng murdering a doctor? I think he was portrayed as someone who has risen above his past mistake. Xuanci was the most elite martial artist in Shaolin. Generally speaking one who lusts cannot attain a high level in martial arts (as stated about Duan Zhengchun). So I think that Xuanci most likely did not get involved in more lusty scenarios after the Xuzhu-making affair.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    I think he was portrayed as someone who has risen above his past mistake.
    It would have helped his image if he'd owned up to his past errors rather than perpetuate a cover up that completely destroyed Kiu Fung's life. In a roundabout way, the abbot was responsible for Ah Chu's death as well.

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    Member Edmund Lau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    It would have helped his image if he'd owned up to his past errors rather than perpetuate a cover up that completely destroyed Kiu Fung's life. In a roundabout way, the abbot was responsible for Ah Chu's death as well.
    That's why I have such low opinions of this guy. He was writing to Wang Jiantong and Asst Beggar-leader Ma Dayuan. But he never shows his face when people needed him to. Some freak like Zhao Qianshun at least had the guts to face Qiao Feng and own up to his own failure - even offering his life to QF. He allowed so many people to die defending his identity. This guy is a total failure.

    And his irresponsibility towards Ye Er-niang. Could he have known about Ye Er-niang's insanity but refuse to look her up? Ye Er-niang was willing to defend him to the very end but where was he when she needed him?

    You know the Biblical story where the Pharisees took this adulterous woman to be stoned and Jesus came along and pardoned her - challenging them with the line, "He who is without sin cast the first stone". It actually takes TWO people to commit adultery but in that scene, we only see the woman. Where is that guy? Probably hiding away somewhere while people were trying to stone his lover! This is the kind of guy that Abbot Xuanci was.

    ~ Edmund Lau
    Read my blogs at: Uncle Screwtape's Blogspot

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Abbot Yeun Chi is kind of like the Richard Nixon of wuxia; the cover up was almost worse than the crime itself.

    Hmmm...."Ah Mun Kwan" is a kind of gate...like Watergate.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    It would have helped his image if he'd owned up to his past errors rather than perpetuate a cover up that completely destroyed Kiu Fung's life. In a roundabout way, the abbot was responsible for Ah Chu's death as well.
    He didn't necessarily try to cover it up. More on that below.

    That's why I have such low opinions of this guy. He was writing to Wang Jiantong and Asst Beggar-leader Ma Dayuan. But he never shows his face when people needed him to.
    His name was on the letter to Wang Jiantong. It was Zhiguang the monk who concealed Xuanci's identity out of concern for Xuanci's safety. Xuanci did not do that.

    When people who knew his identity started dying, I'm not sure if he knew about it. Did Xiao Feng spread the word to the entire wulin that he was out hunting for Leading Brother? Recall that when Xiao Feng finally did find out Xuanci's identity as Leading Brother, he did not blame Xuanci what so ever. He blamed Murong Bo 100%. If Xuanci would have told Xiao Feng the truth in say chapter 20, then Xiao Feng would have hunted down the Murongs. Due to the previous friendship between Xuanci and Murong Bo, perhaps Xuanci did not want them to be Xiao Feng's next victim.

    Moreover, in the third edition of DGSD, apparently there is an additional bit about Abbot Xuanci trying to clean up Xiao Feng's name, although I only heard about it and have not read the new text myself.

    Some freak like Zhao Qianshun at least had the guts to face Qiao Feng and own up to his own failure - even offering his life to QF. He allowed so many people to die defending his identity. This guy is a total failure.
    Again, maybe he didn't know the people were dying? Even if he did, he is supposed to be enlightened monk--Although you might not view him as such, but I think he can still be somewhat enlightened--As such, one is not supposed to intervene in worldly affairs. So even if he was aware of the deaths, it is not his role to do anything about it.

    Although, I do wonder, who sent those 2 Shaolin monks (Xuannan and ?) to Juxian Manor to intervene in worldly affairs.

    And his irresponsibility towards Ye Er-niang. Could he have known about Ye Er-niang's insanity but refuse to look her up? Ye Er-niang was willing to defend him to the very end but where was he when she needed him?
    Well, what if Xuanci made the mistake but realized that it was time to let go of the past and become a good monk? In Buddhism the important step is the realization, after that one should forget the past and focus on reaching enlightenment only. And He did provide financial assistance to Miss Ye. It is still unfair to Ye, but then, I mention again, is it really worse than Qiao Feng's intentional murder of a doctor or Chuangong Zhanglao's wrongful killing of a man?

    You know the Biblical story where the Pharisees took this adulterous woman to be stoned and Jesus came along and pardoned her - challenging them with the line, "He who is without sin cast the first stone". It actually takes TWO people to commit adultery but in that scene, we only see the woman. Where is that guy? Probably hiding away somewhere while people were trying to stone his lover! This is the kind of guy that Abbot Xuanci was.

    ~ Edmund Lau
    Honestly, how many Buddhists or religious practioners do you envision to have NEVER made a major mistake? Now, If the religion specifically binds them to stay away from worldly affairs, and they are trying to follow the religion, does it not make sense for them to let go of the past and try to live a new life as a new person?
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    He definitely was not blameless.

    However, the Ye Erniang affair is separate from the XF affair. He definitely wouldn't have known that his old letter was to be exposed at the Beggar Meet, by the time that he knew of XF's identity being exposed, the word going round wulin was that XF was going round butchering innocent people and had become a Khitan rouge. In the 3rd edition, he then did the right thing by going out to confront XF personally to see if he (XF) really was guilty.

    In the 3rd ed, he even put his life on the line in order to test XF's innocence. If XF really was the vicious killer, Xuanci would have died when he dropped his defence in front of the incoming palm.

    As for the Ye affair, who knows, maybe Ye made him promise not to reveal it? It certaintly seemed that she was more afraid of it being leaked then Xuanci himself.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    How did the Abbot (what was his secular, pre-Buddhist name, by the way?) and Yip 2 Leung first hook up anyway? If there were two people I would not have picked as likely to have ever met up (let alone have had a sexual relationship that resulted in the birth of Hui Juk), it would have been Yeun Chi and Yip 2 Leung.

    I mean, that just came out of the blue! It was a huge WTF?! moment in DGSD.

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    How did the Abbot (what was his secular, pre-Buddhist name, by the way?) and Yip 2 Leung first hook up anyway? If there were two people I would not have picked as likely to have ever met up (let alone have had a sexual relationship that resulted in the birth of Hui Juk), it would have been Yeun Chi and Yip 2 Leung.

    I mean, that just came out of the blue! It was a huge WTF?! moment in DGSD.
    Some monks do travel round jianghu quite a bit, not too fantastic for them to have bumped into each other. Besides, in the JY world, there are abandoned temples outside every city/town/village.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    It wasn't so much that Yeun Chi was a monk as it simply was...you know, him? And her? Really?!

    There are oddly mismatched couples, and then there's Yeun Chi and Yip 2 Leung.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    It wasn't so much that Yeun Chi was a monk as it simply was...you know, him? And her? Really?!

    There are oddly mismatched couples, and then there's Yeun Chi and Yip 2 Leung.
    'She' was actually a decent normal pretty looking damsel. It was the loss of her new born that drove her berserk.

    Yes, 24 years on it looks odd but that was 'back than'.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Senior Member Loke-Gao-Zhu's Avatar
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    Xuan Ci is Jin Yong's satire towards Jesse Jackson XD
    在下日月神教陸教主是也

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