The LOCH adaptation debate

[Ian Liew]

Agree with you totally. Mainland series focus too much on sceneries and special effects. I personally prefer hand fight, storyline, and great artists because that is what entertain me in a series. Boring storyline with great sceneries and special effects doesn't work for me.....

You're describing ROCH, really.. you should give LCJ and XAJH a chance before criticising all mainland serials. Or was it 00 serials. It's sort of the same, because TVB pretty much doesn't even figure in people's minds when we mention 00... they've always been rather weak, but were carried entirely by some really top class actors.

The way I see it, if I took ROCH 84, and substituted Andy Lau and Idy Chan with some 00 TVB actor and actress, I'd likely die. On the other hand, if you took some 00 mainland serial and replace the main actor and actress with Felix Wong/Andy Lau/Tony Leung and, say, Maggie Cheung/Barbara Yung/Mimi Kung, it would suddenly become pretty good. Mainland actors lack charisma, and the companies lack PR. TVB could sell turds like DuguQiubai and Xiakexing simply by pasting Felix and Tony's faces on the poster. I dare not even watch anything from Mainland China unless it's a JY story which I know the plot for. It's all marketing (and because my Cantonese is very fluent while my Mandarin is half-baked, I guess). Things like scenery and fights can't lift a weak serial into a good one, but a charismatic lead can.

But really, watch LCJ - it's one of the most sad, depressing, moving and generally deep serials I've seen in a long long time. It does not rely on scenery, special effects and certainly does not have a boring storyline (and ironically, actually, doesn't have a very charismatic male lead, but it fit the role well). If anything, I was crying for it to be a bit lighter and not make me so angry with certain characters in the serial. XAJH was much better and lighter, I'd throughly recommend watching both. LOCH really isn't that bad either, you know, but DGSD starts becoming sloppy.

I also personally love HSDS 03 but if you hate CGI then you're going to hate it. Ironically, I loved it mainly because it came closest (in my opinion) to the TVB 80s kind of characterisation - lighter, less full of itself with scenery and the "China production" effect (probably due to the China/Taiwan/Singapore partnership), more character focused, and the lack of thought given to the fighting scenes did not affect me as much as I throughly enjoyed the characterisation by Alyssa Chia (mainly) and the other cast. It also emulated TVB's fondness for 'filler' scenes and story deviation to give more characterisation to certain characters - in my opinion, people who moan about it deviating from the novel and yet adore TVB's golden 80s bring to mind the word 'hypocrite'.

[redfirefly124]

Actually, i do like mainland productions. i especially prefer them due to the fact that i can't stand taiwanese accents. ROCH is really the ONLY mainland adaptation that was not decent. LOCH was tolerable, if not great, and i was certainly a fan of XAJH, found DGSD alright and think BXJ is thus far very good. Linked Cities was also overall well done.

to you then.
I watched the first episode of Dou Yu and the Taiwanese accent was REALLY obvious, lol.

So, I know this is kinda off topic, but which of these mainland JY productions should I watch first?
HSDS 03
Lian Cheng Jue
Xia Ke Xing
Book and Sword
DGSD/TLBB 03
Bi Xue Jian

I just finished XAJH...its so good, except I hate the fact that they changed the plot so much. Xu Qing, LYP, Miao Yi Yi, and Li Jie were all really good. Can't wait to see Li Jie's Ou Yang Ke in LOCH 07...

[Ian Liew]

So, I know this is kinda off topic, but which of these mainland JY productions should I watch first?
HSDS 03
Lian Cheng Jue
Xia Ke Xing
Book and Sword
DGSD/TLBB 03
Bi Xue Jian

I just finished XAJH...its so good, except I hate the fact that they changed the plot so much. Xu Qing, LYP, Miao Yi Yi, and Li Jie were all really good. Can't wait to see Li Jie's Ou Yang Ke in LOCH 07...

Oooh, decisions...

HSDS 03 - more character-driven rather than plot-driven, and if you don't like Taiwanese accents you might want to skip this. I'm not sure if it's a Taiwanese accent, but Alyssia Chia speaks differently from many other Mandarin speakers I know. For example..
"Zhao Min!!!" "Kan Maaaa?" (instead of "Zhuo Shen Me?").
"Ni Yi Wei Shi Wo Kan De?" "Kan" obviously means the same as "Zhuo" but I have never seen that word used before.
A very adorable performance, though, and the accent actually makes her more fiery.


Lian Cheng Jue is very depressing and sad, but if you're looking for a plot-driven, deep setting in which the good guys don't always win, and a real world in which virtually everybody is out for himself, then it's a good bet. It does have a good ending, which saves it from being a complete misery, but it's done really well. Fighting choreography is pretty good, although they do use that Matrix effect a few times.

I only watched bits of Xiakexing, and while I didn't quite enjoy the superhero feel and the odd costumes (brings back memories of TVB's Holy Fire Tablets in the mid 80s starring Austin Wai and Teresa Chow) the actor who played both Shi brothers was REALLY good, and portrayed the two facets of the characters wonderfully and convincingly. From slow-witted, innocent naive hero to shrewd, cunning and evil villain, the characterisation is just top-class. The costumes and CGI kind of put me off, though.

Book and Sword actually does fairly well, although the ending was rather brutal (if a bit more realistic). Didn't really like the changes they made to the plot either, which kind of ensures you can't watch Flying Fox as a sequel to this. The music was beautiful, and the cast was solid, though, and there are far worse serials out there if you've nothing else to watch.

DGSD is entertaining and spectacular, but suffers from some rather bad editing. I've written a whole review on it so you can take a look, but the performances of the leads make it a worthwhile watch.

I've been searching all over KL for Bixuejian, but haven't found it yet, but I've heard almost nothing but praise for it, and how Zhang has moved back to his roots of XAJH. That can only be a good thing, though.


Hope that helps. If you don't mind CGI and Taiwanese accents and changed stories, then HSDS 03 is arguably the best bet. If you want something deeper and more serious, then go for LCJ. For Taiwanese lovey-dovey kind of relationships thingies go for HSDS or B&S. For the epic "China" feel go for LCJ or DGSD. Or just watch them all!!!

[0-0-0]

So, I know this is kinda off topic, but which of these mainland JY productions should I watch first?
HSDS 03
Lian Cheng Jue
Xia Ke Xing
Book and Sword
DGSD/TLBB 03
Bi Xue Jian

My pick, since i'm yet to finish BXJ, is probably Lian Cheng Jue. It's got a great wuxia feel and some very very solid acting. I think the fighting scenes and special effects are very good in this one.

HSDS is rather more like a soap-opera, but it has a great female cast. The characterisation is generally good, but it lacks the "wuxia" effect LCJ has. CGI is almost the worst i've seen.
DGSD is not bad, but i find it overall slightly superficial and therefore quite dissimilar to XAJH and LCJ.

[redfirefly124]

Thanks to Ian Liew and 0-0-0 for your help!

[Sparky]

to you then.
I watched the first episode of Dou Yu and the Taiwanese accent was REALLY obvious, lol.

I don't know if it's because I listen to my Taiwanese friends 24/7 and their Taiwanese "mama," but I'm used to it. I still like to take some pride in the fact that I don't have an accent, so I guess it annoys me too. That's what dubbing artists are for - unless they find an annoying one.

I just finished XAJH...its so good, except I hate the fact that they changed the plot so much. Xu Qing, LYP, Miao Yi Yi, and Li Jie were all really good. Can't wait to see Li Jie's Ou Yang Ke in LOCH 07...

The plot kind of changed, but I think Xiao Ao Jiang Hu is ZJZ's best work after watching it. Xu Qing's almost perfect. LOCH '03 was kind of controversial in casting. I liked TLBB '03 though, except for maybe some miscasts here and there. It kind of fell flat after A Zhu died though.

Back on topic - by the way, I was reading the reviews on SPCNET and the generally positive reviews of Zhou Jie, I feel like I am judging Zhou Jie too harshly or whatever...maybe I just can't sense his charm?

[redfirefly124]

Back on topic - by the way, I was reading the reviews on SPCNET and the generally positive reviews of Zhou Jie, I feel like I am judging Zhou Jie too harshly or whatever...maybe I just can't sense his charm?

LOL...don't think so....even I, the LOCH 03 supporter, hate...er, dislike him....and all I can say is that he probably tried his best.

[ghostdarTeal'c]

maybe I just can't sense his charm?

dont worry, you're not the only one.....when i was reading LOCH, i cant picture the charismatic Yang Kang played by Zhou Jie....Yang Kang seems like a crybaby in the drama while in the novel i see him more like a hard-headed prince....ZHou Jie was certainly a horrible pick for Yang Kang....

[redfirefly124]

dont worry, you're not the only one.....when i was reading LOCH, i cant picture the charismatic Yang Kang played by Zhou Jie....Yang Kang seems like a crybaby in the drama while in the novel i see him more like a hard-headed prince....ZHou Jie was certainly a horrible pick for Yang Kang....

Did you hate him in Huan Zhu Ge Ge as well, ghost? I did.....esp. when he was about to hit XYZ Luckily Yong Qi came between them....

[ghostdarTeal'c]

well...talking about Er Kang....in one way, he's a very strong character, i mean, he's the one making decisions for the group, but at certain points he's much too driven by his passion to Zi Wei, and to me, a person as scholarly and intelligent and talented as Er kang should never take on a weaker one despite everything else....

plus, Zhou Jie can get carried away at times...reminds me of Ma Jing Tao; how they both excel in overacting their characters....

so yeah, i feel like squishing him to droplets of unknown substance when he's raising his hand on Xiao Yanzi....and i feel like slapping him senseless when he's crying with Zi Wei...he's supposed to be the strong one and there he was being all manly by crying...

[redfirefly124]

No kidding....agree with you 100% Remember in LOCH when Zhou Jie was mourning for his mother? His eyes went all big, etc....totally horrible scenes....I was tempted to laugh rather than cry.

[ghostdarTeal'c]

something that bothered me about Zhou Jie's Yang Kang is that he always looks lustful when he's around Mu Nianci...where's the love, man? i cant see it.....

[0-0-0]

No kidding....agree with you 100% Remember in LOCH when Zhou Jie was mourning for his mother? His eyes went all big, etc....totally horrible scenes....I was tempted to laugh rather than cry.

yeah! when BXR died, his expressions were SO SHOCKINGLY BAD!

He has no charisma, end of story. I can't see how anyone can rate is performance more than 2/5

[ghostdarTeal'c]

so, we've agreed that Zhou Jie sucked at portraying Yang Kang. i wonder who is the best Yang Kang to date? i havent seen the other version of LOCH other than LOCH03, but from the pictures, i think the Yang Kang in LOCH07 has the looks, dont know about the performance tho...is it out yet?

[0-0-0]

so, we've agreed that Zhou Jie sucked at portraying Yang Kang. i wonder who is the best Yang Kang to date? i havent seen the other version of LOCH other than LOCH03, but from the pictures, i think the Yang Kang in LOCH07 has the looks, dont know about the performance tho...is it out yet?

watch Miu Kui Wai

Gallen's was horrid too

[LuNaR]

i liked gallen, but he juss seemed a bit old

[redfirefly124]

watch Miu Kui Wai

Okay, I'll admit it.....
LOCH 83 Yang Kang WAS pretty good.

[Sparky]

watch Miu Kui Wai

Gallen's was horrid too

Gallen's wasn't that bad...a bit cocky. I think it was still better than Zhou Jie's *shudder*

Miu Kiu Wai is the best - hands down. That's much less up for debate than who was the best Huang Rong. He has the charisma 0-0-0 looks for, had that childish attitude but didn't overdo it like Zhou Jie, was actually appealing enough (physically and through his actions, speech, etc.) to make you believe Mu Nianci would fall head over heels for him...

He was also the best-looking so far. Zhou Jie just scared me from when I saw him at the "Fighting for a Spouse" scene and makes me wonder why Shui Ling would bother.

[Trinie]

Hm.... I can't really say since they all had their strengths and weaknesses. I am a big 80s fan, but I am not going to say that it is the best in every aspect. If you base it on loyalty to the novel, than the 2003 version the best. In terms of cast and acting, I think the 80s version is the best. I didn't really like the 90s version that much... I guess I like the 80s and the 03 version...

I wouldn't say that ALL of the China series use a lot of CGI. XAJH didn't use that many and had a lot of good fighting sequences. BXJ didn't use a lot of CGI either. I actually enjoyed their fighting sequences and think they are more beautifully done than the 80s series were. I love the 80s, but am not going to be bias about them and think they are superior in every way compared to China series or any series of today. NOT everything made in the 80s was "golden".

[tibbs101]

i like ZX huang rong the best. and LOCH 2003. she has that wise but pretty look. her voice was annoying at first, but it grows on you. i'm also tired of all those really high pitched voices that some of the girls have. the new huang rong (ariel lin) looks pretty, but not intelligent. her voice also sounds dumb!!!