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Thread: If Yeung Gor replace Yeung Hong...

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    Senior Member Yeung Gor's Avatar
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    Default If Yeung Gor replace Yeung Hong...

    If Yeung Gor replace Yeung Hong and becomes Gwok Jing brother, how would the story change? How would YG's life develop in this scenerio? Do you think Wong Yung would follow the same path as other girls and fall in love with YG? Would we mostlikely see YG vs GJ finally?

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    Actually it could be possible that we see GJ vs YG because if YG was brought up by YK's foster father, he would be loyal to the jins. YG is always loyal to those who love him and YK's foster father loved him very very much. Except YG probably would not be all that powerful and then GJ would have crushed him because there would be no GF to chop off his arm for him to be found by Brother Condor etc etc.

    As for HR falling in love with him. No fricken way.

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    Senior Member Snafu3721's Avatar
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    It depends...

    One scenario is just that YG dies in the hands of GJ and HR just like his father.

    However, since YG does seem to be less greedy and materialistic than YK, he might actually join GJ on his quest to vanquish the Jin's. But without XLN in the story, I think YG wouldn't be quite the same...

    Unless we assume YG will fall in love with Mu Nan Ci... which is kind of weird cuz he'd be his own father?!?!?

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    Here is my theory:

    YG who doesn't care too much about money and power will follow his teacher (one of the QZ seven) to the QZ temple. There he would also rebel at their strict rules and hypocriteness and ran away to the tomb of living dead. Where he would learn the jade maiden manual and fall in love with.................LMC who I think based on her age would be at about the same age in LOCH as XLN in ROCH.

    Then LMC wouldn't be such a bitter person.

    YG would then befriended GJ and treat him the same way he treat Yelu Qi in ROCH.

    If HR had met GJ first, then I don't think she would care for YG at all.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    I believe that people's personalities are more a product of nurture than nature (nobody is born good or evil, although something in one's brain chemistry might cause a greater disposition towards one or the other). Had Yeung Gor grown up under the same conditions that his father had, Yeung Gor likely would have turned out very similar to Yeung Hong...not because of biology, but because of his experiences.




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    Senior Member SkyWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    I believe that people's personalities are more a product of nurture than nature (nobody is born good or evil, although something in their brain chemistry might cause a greater disposition towards one or the other). Had Yeung Gor grown up under the same conditions that his father had, Yeung Gor likely would have turned out very similar to Yeung Hong...not because of biology, but because of his experiences.
    I totally agree w/ you Ken. I think if YG were in YH's place and nothing changes, meaning he was raised and loved by the Jin Prince, then his fate would mirror that of YH. I don't think he would be a better sworn brother to GJ than YH had. YG would eventually walk down the same path YH did. As for HR falling for him...YH was a handsome bright young man and yet HR didn't notice him at all..I"m sure she wouldn't care much for YG either. She wants someone who's genuine and honest, not someone is cunning and deceiving like her and her father.

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    Senior Member Yeung Gor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    I believe that people's personalities are more a product of nurture than nature (nobody is born good or evil, although something in one's brain chemistry might cause a greater disposition towards one or the other). Had Yeung Gor grown up under the same conditions that his father had, Yeung Gor likely would have turned out very similar to Yeung Hong...not because of biology, but because of his experiences.




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    Of course in this hypethical situation, we would allow YG to retain most of his character traits so that he is still YG but placed in YH shoes.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yeung Gor
    Of course in this hypethical situation, we would allow YG to retain most of his character traits so that he is still YG but placed in YH shoes.
    Then what would be the point? A Yeung Gor raised as Yeung Hong was raised would necessarily be a different person from the Yeung Gor of ROCH. Just dropping ROCH Yeung Gor into Yeung Hong's situation wouldn't make any sense.

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    Senior Member Yeung Gor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Then what would be the point? A Yeung Gor raised as Yeung Hong was raised would necessarily be a different person from the Yeung Gor of ROCH. Just dropping ROCH Yeung Gor into Yeung Hong's situation wouldn't make any sense.

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    I don't mean starting with a fully develop YG nor a clean slack YG, but more like a young YG with some of his character traits so he is still him in some form but can be also molded through experience. Just to see how the story would have change.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    That's more like it. Now there can be an actual discussion.

    The early teenage years are the most impressionable for most people. One might even say that the attitudes that carry on into adulthood until the end of life are first established during the adolescent years.

    Let's take Yeung Gor at age thirteen, the age at which he was adopted by both the Gwoks and West Poison Au Yeung Fung, and his life in wulin began. Have him adopted by the Jin prince Yeun Nan Hung Lit and raised as a prince in the Jin palace.

    Up to this point, Yeung Gor had had to deal with living in utter poverty. His mother was never rich, and after her death, he was out on the streets, scrounging whatever scraps of food he could get his hands on and taking shelter in crude hut.

    All of a sudden, here comes this wealthy man who lives in a huge palace and is willing to spend his great fortune just to make him happy.

    I think Yeung Gor could get used to living like that. Most people would.

    At that point, Yeung Gor has no obligations to anyone in the world. His mother is dead, and he doesn't know about the Gwok family. The only one who would be close to him would be Yeun Nan Hung Lit. Naturally, his loyalties would go to Yeun Nan Hung Lit.

    Would Yeung Gor go so far as to murder innocent people to preserve his wealth and power as Yeung Hong did? That's hard to say. Muk Lim Chi did succeed in inculcating him with a better moral foundation than Pau Sik Yerk had done for Yeung Hong, but wealth and privilege can corrupt people...especially young and impressionable people. ROCH Yeung Gor was never corrupted by wealth or power because he never really had any, and by the time he was in a position to acquire these things through his martial arts, they no longer interested him. The alternate Yeung Gor in question, however, would need to face the dilemma of whether or not he'd *really* be ready to return to a life of poverty after having enjoyed several years of wealth and privilege. It might not be any easier for him to give that up than it was for Yeung Hong, although Yeung Gor might (unlike Yeung Hong) actually bother to feel guilty about it. Whether that guilt would be enough to stop him is anybody's guess. ROCH Yeung Gor isn't a good gauge for comparison because ROCH Yeung Gor never had to face the corruptions of a life of wealth and power; those things were never offered to him when he was in a position to want them.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Kara
    Actually it could be possible that we see GJ vs YG because if YG was brought up by YK's foster father, he would be loyal to the jins. YG is always loyal to those who love him and YK's foster father loved him very very much. Except YG probably would not be all that powerful and then GJ would have crushed him because there would be no GF to chop off his arm for him to be found by Brother Condor etc etc.

    As for HR falling in love with him. No fricken way.
    I agree. The Jins are portrayed as evil bastards who rape and pillage the Hans in the story. While this portrayal is true for the most part, from the Jin perspective the Hans would do the same thing if its armies were stronger than the Jins. (In DGSD JY finally acknowledged that war crimes are committed by both sides. In wars there are no good guys or bad guys)

    Thus, although the Jins are portrayed as "evil," from YG's perspective, this would not be the case. I see no reason why he would betray the father who loved him to side with GJ. From the Han perspective, once again, had he sided with GJ, it would have been the noble thing to do, but we have to be objective.
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    Senior Member GuGu's Avatar
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    He would of had suicided like XF to end the war!

    And he still would of had gotten with XLN. He would of had traveled to the QZ mountain with his teacher, there he would be abused by the stupid priests. He would run away and meet granny. He would live in ancient tomb as XLN's martial brother. When XLN gets old enough they will fall in love and live happily together until the Jin and Han go to war again. He will then choose to kill himself in the middle of the battle field to stop the war. XLN would die there too, in each other's arms.

    Don't separate XLN and YG!

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    Senior Member Bangs's Avatar
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    Although most of the arguments here are probable and makes sense, I have a different view. From what I see and understand of YG's character, he has a natural noble heart. I don't believe wealth can turn him evil. YG was orphaned at an early age, there was no one to teach him right from wrong, he learned it all on his own. Put him in YK's shoes and he'd definitely turn against the Jins.

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    YG could have successfully became the beggar sect leader that YK failed to do, and in the process GJ and HR killed, learnt all of H7Q stuff, merged with AYF and became the biggest badass vs HYS and YD combined. Before ROCH time, he would have killed all the top martial arts exponents including JLFW.

    Quote Originally Posted by Single Whip
    Here is my theory:

    YG who doesn't care too much about money and power will follow his teacher (one of the QZ seven) to the QZ temple. There he would also rebel at their strict rules and hypocriteness and ran away to the tomb of living dead. Where he would learn the jade maiden manual and fall in love with.................LMC who I think based on her age would be at about the same age in LOCH as XLN in ROCH.

    Then LMC wouldn't be such a bitter person.

    YG would then befriended GJ and treat him the same way he treat Yelu Qi in ROCH.

    If HR had met GJ first, then I don't think she would care for YG at all.
    If this happens, LMC would still be the bitter person she was meant to be later on, when YG met LMC martial sister XLN. But I guess, this time, XLN would tried to run away from the freaking YG.
    Last edited by shortsight; 01-25-07 at 07:31 PM.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangs
    Although most of the arguments here are probable and makes sense, I have a different view. From what I see and understand of YG's character, he has a natural noble heart. I don't believe wealth can turn him evil. YG was orphaned at an early age, there was no one to teach him right from wrong, he learned it all on his own. Put him in YK's shoes and he'd definitely turn against the Jins.
    Why should he, though? If Yeung Gor were raised by the Jin and they treated him well, why would he turn against them? As flyingfox said, the Sung side didn't have any inherent moral superiority.

    From Yeung Hong's perspective, what he did in LOCH wasn't wrong. He was just defending his personal interests. The methods he used to do so were underhanded, but the goal itself wasn't innately evil.

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    Senior Member Bangs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Why should he, though? If Yeung Gor were raised by the Jin and treated him well, why would he turn against them? As flyingfox said, the Sung side didn't have any inherent moral superiority.[/URL]
    He would turn against them if he finds out that his real father is a sung civilian who suffered under the hands of the Jins. This is assuming that YG replaces YK as Yang Tie Xin and Bao Xi Ruo's son. Why you ask? Because I believe YG would value virtue over wealth anyday.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangs
    This is assuming that YG replaces YK as Yang Tie Xin and Bao Xi Ruo's son.
    Let's not do that. Otherwise, all we get is Yeung Hong with Yeung Gor's name, and this entire discussion becomes pointless. Yeung Hong and Yeung Gor were father and son, but they were two different young men with two different set of circumstances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bangs
    Why you ask? Because I believe YG would value virtue over wealth anyday.
    If Yeung Gor had been raised by the Jin, however, wouldn't virtue demand that his loyalties remain with them?

    I've never faulted Yeung Hong for siding with Yeun Nan Hung Lit. I can understand why he felt he needed to do it: he didn't want to surrender the life he had grown accustomed to (a legitimate enough cause, although he went about it in dishonorable and murderous ways) and, perhaps, he really did feel loyal to the man who'd raised him. Yeung Hong never really knew Yeung Teet Sum.



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    Senior Member Snafu3721's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    I've never faulted Yeung Hong for siding with Yeun Nan Hung Lit. I can understand why he felt he needed to do it: he didn't want to surrender the life he had grown accustomed to (a legitimate enough cause, although he went about it in dishonorable and murderous ways) and, perhaps, he really did feel loyal to the man who'd raised him. Yeung Hong never really knew Yeung Teet Sum.

    Yeah you really can't fault YK... I mean, if anyone was raised as a son by the enemy, they would feel some sort of loyalty. However, there were moments of greed that entered into YK's mind that caused him to act in dishonorable ways. I think YG would be different. In the novel, YG constantly ponders his actions and weighs his desires against virtue. YG would feel compelled to protect Huang Yen Hong Li's personal safety, but YG wouldn't betray his country.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snafu3721
    YG would feel compelled to protect Huang Yen Hong Li's personal safety, but YG wouldn't betray his country.
    Yeung Gor, unlike Gwok Jing or, to a lesser extent, Yeung Hong, didn't really consider national identity to be an issue. He never gave a damn about that stuff (his issues were more personal). With Yeung Gor, it's not so much a matter of whether or not he'd "betray" any country, but whether or not he'd stoop to harming innocent people to preserve his wealth/power or to protect Yeun Nan Hung Lit.





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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bangs
    He would turn against them if he finds out that his real father is a sung civilian who suffered under the hands of the Jins. This is assuming that YG replaces YK as Yang Tie Xin and Bao Xi Ruo's son. Why you ask? Because I believe YG would value virtue over wealth anyday.
    There are many other reasons YG would side with the Jins, not only for wealth. Filial piety and loyalty is one. There is a chinese say that goes "biological mother is not as great as adopted mother". It mean, the person who raised you is more important that the person who gave birth to u.

    Also, if YG was raised as a Jin, he will has a different set of virtue. He will follow the Jin's virtue and moral standard. He won't have Huang Rong there to teach him Confucious teachings.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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