Absence of Shaolin (Fireworker Monk Incident Thread)

[Du Gu seeking a win]

i read somewhere about the Fireworker Monk Incident making shaolin sect weak (dis happen b4 loch) but wat was it?

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Read about it in chapter 2 of HSDS translated by Athena. That's the reason ShaoLin wanted to punish Zhang Jun Bao (ZSF) and he fled from ShaoLin.

[Candide]

http://www.wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin...ok_1/chapter_2

[Du Gu seeking a win]

http://www.wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin...ok_1/chapter_2

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I have a question about:
"HuoGong TouTuo" - the monk working in the kitchen.

I've always thought that 'tou2 tuo2' (like Athena said) means 'a Buddhist monk with hair'

But I only find (in dictionaries) that 'tou2 tuo2' means: 'a mendicant (beggar) Buddhist monk'

头陀 <---- simplified Chinese

頭陀 <---- traditional Chinese

Probably HYS, Lav, HankyPanky could give some explanation?

[Athena]

A "Tou Tuo" or Dhuta in Sanskrit is a monk who wants to pursue nirvana by cleansing himself of the trials in life.
They have 12 principles which helps them in this process:
1. Wearing cast-off rags
2. Wearing three simple garments
3. Eat only begged food
4. Only have two meals a day (breakfast and lunch)
5. No other food allowed between and after these meals
6. Eat small portions of food
7. Live like a hermit
8. Dwell amongst desolate places, tombs, (small) monasteries, etc.
9. Rest under trees and not in houses
10. Spend most of the time in open sky, meditating, etc.
11. Meditate wherever possible
12. Always sit (even when resting), lying down is not allowed.

"Tou Tuo" is a phonetical translation of Dhuta which means shaking off, cleansing in Sanskrit.

[Du Gu seeking a win]

A "Tou Tuo" or Dhuta in Sanskrit is a monk who wants to pursue nirvana by cleansing himself of the trials in life.
They have 12 principles which helps them in this process:
1. Wearing cast-off rags
2. Wearing three simple garments
3. Eat only begged food
4. Only have two meals a day (breakfast and lunch)
5. No other food allowed between and after these meals
6. Eat small portions of food
7. Live like a hermit
8. Dwell amongst desolate places, tombs, (small) monasteries, etc.
9. Rest under trees and not in houses
10. Spend most of the time in open sky, meditating, etc.
11. Meditate wherever possible
12. Always sit (even when resting), lying down is not allowed.

"Tou Tuo" is a phonetical translation of Dhuta which means shaking off, cleansing in Sanskrit.

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Thanks, since hair wasn't mentioned at all, it means he can keep it


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[LuNaR]

http://www.wuxiapedia.com/novels/jin...ok_1/chapter_2

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= alot to read

can sum1 juss briefly explain it? and wat era is this? b4 loch?

[Ken Cheng]

^
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= alot to read

can sum1 juss briefly explain it? and wat era is this? b4 loch?

Around the same time as the First Mt. Hua Sword Tournament (so yes, before the official beginning of LOCH).

Capsule summary: a Shaolin monk learns vital Shaolin martial arts without authorization and goes on a killing rampage before fleeing to the Western Regions. As a result, Shaolin imposes greater restrictions on the transmission of its martial arts skills. Also, a schism develops within Shaolin that weakens the temple.

It's more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it.

[Du Gu seeking a win]

Around the same time as the First Mt. Hua Sword Tournament (so yes, before the official beginning of LOCH).

Capsule summary: a Shaolin monk learns vital Shaolin martial arts without authorization and goes on a killing rampage before fleeing to the Western Regions. As a result, Shaolin imposes greater restrictions on the transmission of its martial arts skills. Also, a schism develops within Shaolin that weakens the temple.

It's more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it.

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Ken, you yourself (I did) should also read that part again. Huo gong tou tuo wasn't the founder of Western ShaoLin.

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[Ken Cheng]

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Ken, you yourself (I did) should also read that part again. Huo gong tou tuo wasn't the founder of Western ShaoLin.

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Nor did I say he was. Check out my post again.

[Du Gu seeking a win]

Nor did I say he was. Check out my post again.

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You wrote HGTT fled to the Western regions, that wasn't mentioned in the text.

[Candide]

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You wrote HGTT fled to the Western regions, that wasn't mentioned in the text.

Not in chapter 2, but in later chapters, it was revealed that he did flee to that region and found the Diamond School.

[LuNaR]

Around the same time as the First Mt. Hua Sword Tournament (so yes, before the official beginning of LOCH).

Capsule summary: a Shaolin monk learns vital Shaolin martial arts without authorization and goes on a killing rampage before fleeing to the Western Regions. As a result, Shaolin imposes greater restrictions on the transmission of its martial arts skills. Also, a schism develops within Shaolin that weakens the temple.

It's more complicated than that, but that's the gist of it.

so this is how many years b4 guo jing is born?

[Ken Cheng]

so this is how many years b4 guo jing is born?

At least ten, I'd say.

[Du Gu seeking a win]

Not in chapter 2, but in later chapters, it was revealed that he did flee to that region and found the Diamond School.

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imo there is a contradiction in HSDS about who was the founder of Western Shaolin.

In chapter 2, it was Xu Wei, the ex-master of the Luo Han Hall
In chapter 25, it mentioned Huo gong tou tuo as the founder?

A question to Athena: Did JY correct this controversy in the 3rd edition?

[Laviathan]

Kuhui = former head of the Shaolin Arhat Hall, founder of Western Shaolin

Huogong Toutuo = founder of Diamond School

[kamii]

hmm whats the diamond school???? I dun think i heard of it.....maybe i know the chinese name though. I have not actually read any jin yong books but i have definitely seen all if not most of the tv adaptions.....

And one more thing.......the monk who had practically no training before hand learnt these vital fighting techniques and suddenly became one of the best in shaolin?! Or was it just that he got away before anyone strong actually came along?

[Ken Cheng]

hmm whats the diamond school???? I dun think i heard of it.....maybe i know the chinese name though. I have not actually read any jin yong books but i have definitely seen all if not most of the tv adaptions.....

That's the martial arts school from which Chiu Mun's flunkies Ah 2 and Ah 3 learned their martial arts. They were not Shaolin acolytes, and yet they knew how to use highly coveted Shaolin martial arts. The reason was that the Diamond School was founded by the Fireworker Monk, who had illicitly learned Shaolin martial arts.

[kamii]

If diamond school is where chiu muns flunkies come from isn't that also western shaolin then? Leviathon has kinda specified that they are two different things....

In the serial they called themselves students from western shaolin.....thats who they are rite? But then whats the difference between western shaolin and diamond school???? I am so confused!!!

[Ken Cheng]

If diamond school is where chiu muns flunkies come from isn't that also western shaolin then? Leviathon has kinda specified that they are two different things....

In the serial they called themselves students from western shaolin.....thats who they are rite? But then whats the difference between western shaolin and diamond school???? I am so confused!!!

They're two completely different organizations (don't forget, "the Western Regions" is a HUGE place...it refers to all of Eurasia west of China's traditional borders). The Diamond School was the martial arts sect founded by the Fireworker Monk. "Western Shaolin" was founded by a group of Shaolin separatists who left the Shaolin Temple after a schism over the rules regarding Shaolin martial arts instruction in the wake of the Fireworker Monk incident. Unlike the Diamond Men, Western Shaolin was not founded to practice/disseminate martial arts. Contrarily, the members of Western Shaolin later eschewed martial arts altogether in favor of more Buddhist meditation and enlightenment.

[kamii]

but didn't 'ah dai' and 'ah yi' say that they were from west shaolin (sai wek siu lum?)??


or maybe that was just what tvb added in....