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Thread: The next survivor game theme will be... ELOC !!

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Default The next survivor game theme will be... ELOC !!

    For anyone not familiar with the emerging expression ELOC, it is an acronym representing the words Exposing Lovable Overlooked Characters. In a nutshell, it is an effort to... expose underrated, overlooked characters who are lovable to the community!

    Since the popularization of SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan, dozens of additional ELOC characters have been identified, including but not limited to: Reverend Kongjian, An Fengri, Priest Wuchen, Fast Sabre Qi Liu, Zhao Qiansun, and Golden Wheel Monk's first disciple (who is much better than his later disciples Huodu and Daerba). These characters deserve recognition for contributing to the colorful stories, and what better way to learn and celebrate their existence by playing a SURVIVOR game dedicated EXCLUSIVELY to them!

    Survivor Games are generally tailored for mainstream contestants, but this time the reverse will be true. It will surely be a unforgettable convention-bending experience!

    Let's collect candidate nominations for this exciting game. The game will begin after the extremely mainstream COUPLES game comes to an end.

    Thank you for your participation and support for ELOC.

    Sincerely, PJ
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member 0-0-0's Avatar
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    haha- i was wondering what was going to come after. With the couples games, i was wondering if they'd do a "cross universe" couples with the recent discussion of LMC/GJ and HR/H7G

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    ELOC is also known as OCWROFAR (Obscure Characters Who Remain Obscure For A Reason).

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    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    that's a good one, except GJ, LMC, HR, and H7G are all from the same universe

    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    ELOC is also known as OCWROFAR (Obscure Characters Who Remain Obscure For A Reason).
    really, it's just going to be a YFNFC "your favorite non-favorite character"
    Last edited by Ren Ying Ying; 06-08-07 at 11:27 PM.

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    Senior Member 0-0-0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Ying Ying
    that's a good one, except GJ, LMC, HR, and H7G are all from the same universe
    oops... that was badly expressed, but i think you gather what i mean

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    ORDER

    elder xu chongxiao (whose might shall not be exterminated by thunder and lightning!)
    zen master chengguan/dengguan (there are two ways to pronounce his name)
    golden wheel monk's nameless first disciple
    the big monster of pearl cliff zhuya daguai
    mighty sabre ms. qin hongmian aka you guke
    holy dragon sect leader hong antong
    impartial judge shan zheng
    vice president ma dayuan
    reverend kongjian
    shangguan yun
    chang yuchun
    taoist buping
    lantianhe
    feng buping
    zhu baokun
    priest wuchen
    an fengri
    zhu cong
    elder kurong
    mr. mo da
    Last edited by PJ; 07-01-07 at 12:10 PM.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Here are a few characters that I would nominate. To qualify, the candiates must be somewhat secondary, underexposed, and overshadowed by main characters.

    -Taoist Buping, for his magnificent self-confidence and elegant floating on and descend from a tree branch

    -Feng Buping, for having "Buping" in his name

    -Mr. Mo Da, for his exquisite slicing of wine cups

    -Priest Wuchen, for having reached the stage of COMBOS: Countering Opponent's Move Before Opponent Strikes, and for his excellence in the field of SWORDPLAY!

    -IMPARTIAL JUDGE Shan Zheng, for his impartialness

    -Zhao Qiansun, for his unique, laughable grudge against the IMPARTIAL JUDGE, and for his unparalled faithfulness towards Granny Tan for 30+ years

    -THUNDER GOD Elder Xu, for withstanding a lightning attack

    -FAST SABRE Qi Liu, for having reached the peak of perfection in timing

    -An Fengri, for bearing one of the strangest names possible

    -Shangguan Yun, for his boldness in fighting with Dongfang Bubai, and actually surviving it

    -Holy Dragon Sect Leader Hong Antong, for putting an island's worth above a dynasty

    -Golden Wheel Monk's first disciple, for his shocking competency before his death

    -Reverend Kongjian, who has reached the peak of peaks in speed and lightness kung fu AND enlightenment! Go Reverend Kongjian!!

    -Elder Kurong, whose physical hair-removing method conquers all

    -Jie Feng

    -Qin Hongmian

    -Ma Dayuan

    -Zhuya Daguai, The Premier Monster of Pearl Cliff

    -Grandfather Tan


    OK, that's all I can think of for now, please submit candidates that you can think of. I hope to see lots of participation in this exciting & MEANINGFUL round of SURVIVOR!


    p.s. Personally, I think SWORD GOD should not be included any more. He has surpassed the stage of ELOC. His name is one of the best known in the community now, thanks to ELOC. We want to give more underexposed contenders a chance. SWORD GOD has been the first graduate of the ELOC Academy. Hopefully after this game, more ELOC candidates will join SWORD GOD as alumni of this meaningful institution.


    NOMINATIONS BY OTHERS:

    Guo Polu
    Lu Youjiao
    Zhu Baokun
    Last edited by PJ; 03-17-07 at 02:22 AM.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    guo polu for being the only "normal" kid of GJ & HR

    and sicong zai xing from LXF (actually, i'm not sure if he's overlooked. i don't see much LXF threads in the first place)
    Last edited by Ren Ying Ying; 03-02-07 at 04:15 AM.

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    Moderator kidd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Ying Ying
    guo polu for being the only "normal" kid of GJ & HR

    and sicong zai xing from LXF (actually, i'm not sure if he's overlooked. i don't see much LXF threads in the first place)
    He's certainly not overlook by me. He's my 2nd fave character (after Hua Manlou) in the LXF world.

    But add him anyway. He's seldom talked about, so, most probably overlooked by many.

    Agree with the addition of Guo Polu too.
    什麼是朋友?朋友永遠是在你犯下不可原諒錯誤的時候,仍舊站在你那邊的笨蛋。~ 王亞瑟

    和諧唔係一百個人講同一番話,係一百個人有一百句唔同嘅說話,而又互相尊重 ~ - 葉梓恩

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    wat about yg? i meant ying gu
    Participate in SPCNET Idol Season 4!!!

    http://www.spcnet.tv/forums/showthre...66#post1127566

    Entries due July 31st, 2016!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    -THUNDER GOD Elder Xu, for withstanding a lightning attack
    If he is to be included, let us not forget the man who was the one who produced such an earth-shaking feat: Qiao Feng.

    Hang on, folks, I know you guys might be thinking: QF isn't overlooked; on the contrary, people are looking up to him too much. Then let me ask you: Who could have transmitted a force of this capability:

    Quote Originally Posted by Huang Rong
    28,000 C degrees in heat, carry an average of 30-to-50 kiloamperes (kA), and transfer a charge of 5 coulombs and 500 megajoules (enough to light a 100 watt light bulb for 2 months).
    in just one flick of a bamboo stick? Clearly, QF did not put in all his internal energy into that single strike, for he wouldn't want to kill Elder Xu. Yet, he could produce a force with only a fraction of his internal energy. If he were to unleash a greater force than that, say, his all-too-well-known XL28Z, imagine how many degrees celsius, and how many kA and megajoules would be stored in that one strike?

    And then, there's Sweeper Monk. Godly though we SPCNET members revere him to be, our heathen minds failed to see that a force that could carry WAY more than 28000 degree celsius, 30-50 kA, 5 coulombs and 500 megajoules *only* broke three rib bones of his. And that was WITHOUT his force shield. The mind boggles at the strength of his force shield, if we were to take that the hurling of the Dog-Beating Stick -- despite being a force with 28000 degree celsius of heat, etc. -- as one of QF's not so extra-ordinary feats; clearly QF had inflicted much more force in his palm as he struck Sweeper.

    So then, we know the internal energy of Sweeper Monk knew no boundaries. Yet, Duan Yu was said to have an amount of internal energy second to none under the heavens in one of the earlier chapters. Taking the claim to be true, Duan Yu's internal energy should be superior to that of Sweeper Monk. After absorbing Jiu Mo Zhi's internal energy, HOW MUCH is Duan Yu's internal energy? By then, a lightning bolt strike might have been mere peanuts to him.

    That said, what about Xu Zhu? He, who has been widely-acclaimed and recognised for being one who is more than twice stronger than Xiao Feng had he been able to fully utilise his internal energy. Let's not overlook one of his greatest prowess: his ability of sustained flight, which, although limited to vertical heights, amazes us on how he could be able to defy gravity FOR A LONG PERIOD OF TIME, and his leap seemed it was NEVER GOING TO END. That, my friends, reveals his breaking out of the limits that superior lightness kung fu always has: that he could really *fly*.

    Anybody else I overlooked?

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    Senior Member Huang Rong's Avatar
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    No no Pacifian, Xiao Feng only created a thunder suggesting effect with the throw of the Dog beating stick, he did not ever create a real thunder effect.

    I mean Xiao Feng's throw was very powerful but it did NOT contain the power of 28,000 C degrees in heat, carry an average of 30-to-50 kiloamperes (kA), and transfer a charge of 5 coulombs and 500 megajoules (enough to light a 100 watt light bulb for 2 months).

    Well, even though the throw was not as powerful as a lightning bolt but at that time, it still did remind Elder Xu of a superb memory that: He had been once struck by a real lightning bolt before.

    Therefore I venture to say that the feat of Elder Xu is unique under heavens!
    Yang Guo & Zhou Botong said in Chapters 6, 11 & 25 of ROCH:
    - 这道姑也算得美了,只是还不及桃花岛郭伯母,更加不及我姑姑。
    - 原来郭伯母竟是这般美貌,小时候我却不觉得。
    - 龙姑娘,我瞧你品貌才智,和那小黄蓉不相上下,武功也跟她差不离。

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huang Rong
    Well, even though the throw was not as powerful as a lightning bolt but at that time, it still did remind Elder Xu of a superb memory that: He had been once struck by a real lightning bolt before.
    WHERE on Earth did the novel say he was reminded of being struck by a real lightning bolt before?

    Here, you are making a conclusion based on an evidence which doesn't have so much as a link with your hypothesis!

    A simile such as 'I feel as happy as a King' doesn't mean 'I was once a King and now I have the feeling again'. That's ridiculous. Tell me, where did the novel even touch on the word 'memory'?

    Here's the excerpt: 忽听得呼的一声响,半空中一根竹棒掷了下来,正是乔峰反手将打狗棒飞送而至。徐长老伸手去接, 右手刚拿到竹 棒,突觉自手掌以至手臂、自手臂以至全身,如中雷电轰击般的一震。

    Now, where does it suggest a memory of being struck by lightning. Even when you want to infer something from a source, you've got to make sure the link is established.

    Quote Originally Posted by Huang Rong
    No no Pacifian, Xiao Feng only created a thunder suggesting effect with the throw of the Dog beating stick, he did not ever create a real thunder effect.
    Uh-huh. So where are you heading?

    So first, XF unleashed a force that doesn't have 28000 degrees celsius, yet it reminded Elder Xu of some non-existent past of being struck by lightning? 'I was hit as though I was struck by a knife' suggests I have *been* struck by a knife. The linkage between your conclusion and the excerpt is very weak.

    I mean Xiao Feng's throw was very powerful but it did NOT contain the power of 28,000 C degrees in heat, carry an average of 30-to-50 kiloamperes (kA), and transfer a charge of 5 coulombs and 500 megajoules (enough to light a 100 watt light bulb for 2 months).
    The excerpt says a vibrating force that has spread throughout his body was like that of lightning. It would have been more logical to say that the force XF produced did contain these elements instead of saying the force reminded him of one he had received before.
    Last edited by Pacifian; 03-02-07 at 09:34 AM.

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    Senior Member Huang Rong's Avatar
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    1. A King, a stab by a knife and a lightning bolt are 3 different instances which can not be used to take place of each other in the phrase: 'as (if) ...'

    People can say: "I feel as happy as a King" while they've not ever been a King because they all are aware of how luxurious a King/ an Emperor is.
    People can also say: "I felt sore as if I was stabbed by a knife" while they have not ever been stabbed by a knife 'cause almost everybody at least once in his/her life has experienced the feeling of a physical injury.

    But how can they say: "I felt shook as if I was struck by a lightning" if they have not ever been struck by lightning or at least gotten an electrick shock? Notice that the victims of the lightning strikes often die immediately and in the Song Dynasty electrical energy had not still been discovered yet.

    2. 如中雷电轰击般的一震。
    The event was told through the words of the _narrator_ (as an outside observer). Therefore I think the probabilities for Xiao Feng creating a real thunder effect and Xiao Feng's throw evoking Elder Xu's memory are about equal.
    Yang Guo & Zhou Botong said in Chapters 6, 11 & 25 of ROCH:
    - 这道姑也算得美了,只是还不及桃花岛郭伯母,更加不及我姑姑。
    - 原来郭伯母竟是这般美貌,小时候我却不觉得。
    - 龙姑娘,我瞧你品貌才智,和那小黄蓉不相上下,武功也跟她差不离。

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    Senior Member Ren Ying Ying's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huang Rong
    1. A King, a stab by a knife and a lightning bolt are 3 different instances which can not be used to take place of each other in the phrase: 'as (if) ...'

    People can say: "I feel as happy as a King" while they've not ever been a King because they all are aware of how luxurious a King/ an Emperor is.
    People can also say: "I felt sore as if I was stabbed by a knife" while they have not ever been stabbed by a knife 'cause almost everybody at least once in his/her life has experienced the feeling of a physical injury.

    But how can they say: "I felt shook as if I was struck by a lightning" if they have not ever been struck by lightning or at least gotten an electrick shock? Notice that the victims of the lightning strikes often die immediately and in the Song Dynasty electrical energy had not still been discovered yet.
    likewise, the argument of words manipulation can be turned to say: People can only "IMAGINE" what it feels like to be a king or "IMAGINE" how it would feel like to be stabbed. likewise, he can only "IMAGINE" what it felt like to be struck by lightning.

    secondly, one can even argue that JY the narrator has never been struck by lighting (not that we know of at least)...then how could he use it to describe someone? not to mention most lightning victims barely feel the lightning or rather the electricity strikes them unconcious before they feel the pain or effects of it. hence, if JY was literally speaking of "being stuck by lightning", he would mean that the Xu felt "nothing".

    though viewing the passage, it seems JY is suggesting that Xu felt the same rumbling/quake atmosphere caused by the thunder, which normal people will experience. but, being struck by lighting is not an experience for the everyday average person.
    Last edited by Ren Ying Ying; 03-02-07 at 07:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huang Rong
    People can say: "I feel as happy as a King" while they've not ever been a King because they all are aware of how luxurious a King/ an Emperor is.
    Do you frankly know how it's like to be a King? Or is it that you just have the rough consensus of how it is like to be one?

    People can also say: "I felt sore as if I was stabbed by a knife" while they have not ever been stabbed by a knife 'cause almost everybody at least once in his/her life has experienced the feeling of a physical injury.
    Sliced by a knife, maybe. If you are *stabbed* with a knife, however....

    But how can they say: "I felt shook as if I was struck by a lightning" if they have not ever been struck by lightning or at least gotten an electrick shock? Notice that the victims of the lightning strikes often die immediately and in the Song Dynasty electrical energy had not still been discovered yet.
    Notice your quote:
    they all are aware of how luxurious a King/ an Emperor is.
    The word 'aware' is the key. Jin Yong needn't know, nor do the characters in the stroy, that lightning contains 30-50 kA, and that it could light up a 100-watt bulb for 2 months. They know not about electrical energy, all they know is that lightning is something that has a powerful vibrating force.

    Evidently, the simile is used for hyperbolical effect. For laughs, you might want to take words in their literal sense, as if the force Elder Xu had just experienced was equivalent to that of a lighning strike. But to create a story on how he has had a previous encounter with lightning and survived it and that he now remembered about the past is simply stretching it.

    2. 如中雷电轰击般的一震。
    The event was told through the words of the _narrator_ (as an outside observer). Therefore I think the probabilities for Xiao Feng creating a real thunder effect and Xiao Feng's throw evoking Elder Xu's memory are about equal.
    Regardless of whether it is said through a third-person's view, or a second person, or a first, it is still the same: that Elder Xu's once being struck by lightning and he was reminded about it is stretching the words too much. Just because the narrator narrates it one way doesn't mean you could happily go on and presume certain things.

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    A nomination:
    Zhu Baokun - the highly-skilled mole whose perfect cover was undone by ... Wang Yuyan!
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
    Soon ... SOON!

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    Senior Member Huang Rong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifian
    The word 'aware' is the key. They know not about electrical energy, all they know is that lightning is something that has a powerful vibrating force.
    The luxury of the Emperor and The hurt after being stabbed by someone with a knife were obvious facts in the wuxia world (even in the nowaday world) so they and Being struck by lightning are not in the same category.
    How could the characters in DGSD know that lightning could shake the thunderstruck victim if all the people who were struck by lightning were already dead?
    Therefore I think that there was at least one character in DGSD who had really experienced a strike of lightning. Even if it was not Elder Xu who survived the lightning bolt (which I disagree), there must have been _a certain nameless hero_ who had really been struck by lightning and survived.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifian
    Just because the narrator narrates it one way doesn't mean you could happily go on and presume certain things.
    Because Jin Yong did not state his exact opinion about this legendary event so there're always 2 possible ways for the readers to go after, and I chose one.
    Last edited by Huang Rong; 03-02-07 at 12:14 PM.
    Yang Guo & Zhou Botong said in Chapters 6, 11 & 25 of ROCH:
    - 这道姑也算得美了,只是还不及桃花岛郭伯母,更加不及我姑姑。
    - 原来郭伯母竟是这般美貌,小时候我却不觉得。
    - 龙姑娘,我瞧你品貌才智,和那小黄蓉不相上下,武功也跟她差不离。

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    Quote Originally Posted by Huang Rong
    How could the characters in DGSD know that lightning could shake the thunderstruck victim if all the people who were struck by lightning were already dead?
    Assuming your point is that they have to be struck by lightning at least once to understand an impact of lightning and then can they be justified in comparing a force to a lightning bolt...

    Now see: Lightning flashes and strikes a tree (or whatever object there may be) or perhaps another person (who might or might not have died, though I'm more inclined towards the former), anybody has the basic sense to know that it's dangerous and powerful. At that time, they don't know how being struck by it feels like, and what it is exactly -- but it doesn't matter. The killer force and the danger present in a bolt of lightning is well feared of even in centuries in the past!

    Just for your information, the excerpt was actually comparing only the explosive force of a lightning to the vibration/shock/tremor Elder Xu received. It takes only eyes back then to know of the explosive power of lightning bolts.

    如中雷电*轰击*般的一震。

    And for more details refer to RYY's post earlier on; it seems that being struck by lightning doesn't really entitle you to do these comparisons -- not when you feel nothing out of a lightning strike. Like what you've been harping on the other two instances, it really just take a fair bit of imagination and awareness to use a simile. Lightning bolts weren't that mysterious in the past.

    Therefore I think that there was at least one character in DGSD who had really experienced a strike of lightning. Even if it was not Elder Xu who survived the lightning bolt (which I disagree), there must have been _a certain nameless hero_ who had really been struck by lightning and survived.
    This is only a *maybe*. Using words like "must have been" brings you to the boundaries of poorly justified conclusion, as it ignores other possibilities.

    Because Jin Yong did not state his exact opinion about this legendary event so there're always 2 possible ways for the readers to go after, and I chose one.
    Unfortunately, here you're choosing one route that has little basis: you were inferring too much, and as you indulged in your inferrence you actually went too faraway from the story and led to conclusions like: Elder Xu received a lightning strike before. In the world of prose, many things are possible. But possibility doesn't justify your use in making these somewhat weird-linked conclusions.

  20. #20
    Senior Member MrIllusion's Avatar
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    *如*中雷电轰击般的一震。
    The key word is 'as if'.

    When people say Mike Tyson 'hits like a truck', do you really think people are saying that all his opponents can withstand repeated collisions with an oil tanker?

    I would like to nominate Lu Youjiao for:
    - Leading the beggars in Huang Rong's absence
    - Stepping up to challenges despite mediocre abilities
    - Being one of the few people who can claim to understand Guo Xiang.
    The Truth is out there
    I say we leave it there...

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