DFBB vs 3 Divine Shaolin Monks: 'Du' Generation

[augster123]

if we were to place the speedy multiopponent handler DongFang BuBai against the 3 Divine Monks: Duwei, Dujie and Dunan, who do you think will win?

DongFang BuBai, fighting his best, was able to handle Ren WoXing, Linghu Chong and Xiang WenTian all at once and thats certainly no small feat.
but then again the Diamond Taming Demon Circle which the 3 Du Monks put out is pretty uber too. so who wins? discuss and cast your votes.

[kyss of the sword]

i believe that DFBB can't use his speed effectively inside the demon taming formation. his movements would be restricted and he would end up in an inner power duel which i don't think he can win.

[Whsie]

I'm going have to probably say Du Generation because of the "field" created. This practically makes the room availible heavily limited for DFBB, which could potentially be a problem for DFBB's speed advantage.

[augster123]

i always thought DFBB actually excelled in close quarter combat tho...he should be as good as the Green Wing Bat King in close quarter combat speed, who was said to be unmatched in that aspect in HSDS i think...unless of course the whips actually start tying DFBB up...then i think its a different story

and les not forget the sunflower manual is a sword art manual based on internal energy...

[Whsie]

i always thought DFBB actually excelled in close quarter combat tho...he should be as good as the Green Wing Bat King in close quarter combat speed, who was said to be unmatched in that aspect in HSDS i think...unless of course the whips actually start tying DFBB up...then i think its a different story

and les not forget the sunflower manual is a sword art manual based on internal energy...

About DFBB's internal energy, I think that would be the key weakness. It was mentioned that while DFBB's internal was indeed strong, it wasn't overwhelming. In other words, it seems likely that DFBB isn't way too > than LHC in internal. Based on this idea, I would say the Du generation would excel in the internal area. The thing with close quarter combat is that the Du Generations create this type of force field (not a real one) that blocks out everyone. The closer the 3 are, the stronger this field is.

[augster123]

i'm just gonna be the devil's advocate here for a bit.

when it was mentioned that DFBB's internal was indeed strong but wasn't overwhelming, was this being compared to the trio (RWX, LHC, XWT) as a whole that DFBB was fighting or was his internal energy being compared to individually (RWX/LHC/XWT)? because i think theres a world of difference between the two.

it makes sense if it was being compared to the trio as a whole because DFBB was fighting his hardest and was only gradually winning the fight. if his internal energy was only slightly better than LHC, RYY did not have to own DFBB's lover boy cuz it was highly likely that DFBB was gonna run outta gas.

if ZWJ, who isn't as fast as Green Wing Bat King in close quarter combat, can put up a fight against the 3 monks because of his strong internal energy, why cant DFBB, who should be as fast as Green Wing Bat King in close quarter combat (gotta love my assumptions), do the same with his strong speed?

[Pacifian]

when it was mentioned that DFBB's internal was indeed strong but wasn't overwhelming, was this being compared to the trio (RWX, LHC, XWT) as a whole that DFBB was fighting or was his internal energy being compared to individually (RWX/LHC/XWT)? because i think theres a world of difference between the two.

No comparison was made. Instead, LHC was just thinking to himself that DFBB's internal energy wasn't that impressive after all.

it makes sense if it was being compared to the trio as a whole because DFBB was fighting his hardest and was only gradually winning the fight. if his internal energy was only slightly better than LHC, RYY did not have to own DFBB's lover boy cuz it was highly likely that DFBB was gonna run outta gas.

It seems, however, that KHBD is a skill that doesn't seem to require much internal energy. It justs enhances his speed by a scary amount, that's all.

I wouldn't say his/her internal energy would only be slightly above LHC's; I think LHC just realised DFBB wasn't that omnipotent after he understood the key of KHBD. He sort of just felt DFBB's internal wasn't that impressive as he thought it out to be after all -- for DFBB was relying mainly on speed to achieve success and that KHBD was no internal energy-building manual, or at least, that wasn't its primary focus. Nevertheless, DFBB must have had a fairly strong reservoir of internal to be able to pull out those feats like knocking away a sword with a needle, etc. Just not that great as compared with RWX et al (individually).

if ZWJ, who isn't as fast as Green Wing Bat King in close quarter combat, can put up a fight against the 3 monks because of his strong internal energy, why cant DFBB, who should be as fast as Green Wing Bat King in close quarter combat (gotta love my assumptions), do the same with his strong speed?

Probably. But if his/her internal energy is really not up to match, the most s/he could do would be to prick one of the monk's eye blind and then get a huge shockwave of internal energy. It was said that all three of them had their bodies entirely protected by massive amounts of internal energy. Probably if s/he retracts his/her arm fast enough, s/he would be spared the brunt of the damage. But how many of such shockwaves could s/he tolerate before finally being able to stab them all dead?

[Ren Ying Ying]

About DFBB's internal energy, I think that would be the key weakness. It was mentioned that while DFBB's internal was indeed strong, it wasn't overwhelming. In other words, it seems likely that DFBB isn't way too > than LHC in internal. Based on this idea, I would say the Du generation would excel in the internal area. The thing with close quarter combat is that the Du Generations create this type of force field (not a real one) that blocks out everyone. The closer the 3 are, the stronger this field is.

LHC thinking "DFBB's internal energy was not extremely overwhelming" doesn't mean he is only a bit above LHC himself. in context, LHC was overwhelmed by DFBB's speed, not his internal energy. hence, it could be LHC just thinking that in comparison to the godliness of his speed, DFBB's internal energy was not "impressive". Or, as augster123 mentioned, he may be thinking that DFBB is able to overwhelm the three of them in terms of overal martial arts, but not necessarily in total internal energy.

not to mention he was able to knock LHC's sword away and pain/numb his arm with a small light needle. thus, his internal power being not "way too > LHC" i find is a grand understatement.

[Pacifian]

To RYY: Why are you quoting my post when that was what I was saying? Sounds like you're trying to shoot me down

Or, he may be thinking that DFBB is able to overwhelm the three of them in terms of overal martial arts, but not necessarily in total internal energy.

I think LHC initially thought DFBB was superior to them in all aspects, given that he did overrule the factor "DFBB performed complex stances" in his head at that time after understanding more about KHBD. Internal energy was just one of the examples he used to show that DFBB only appears outstanding in just one aspect, just one -- his speed.

hence, it could be LHC just thinking that in comparison to the godliness of his speed, DFBB's internal energy was not "impressive".

I doubt this. If DFBB had a GREAT deal of internal energy but had GREEEAAAATEER speed, he wouldn't have thought of such a sentence at all. He would still be extremely impressed with DFBB's internal had DFBB been really that powerful in terms of internal energy. What he clearly meant to say was that DFBB wasn't all that great and remarkable and astonishing in his internal energy. In my opinion, he was thinking along these lines: DFBB's internal just wasn't special, and that it wasn't a huge factor that contributed to his prowess in that particular fight with RWX, XWT and LHC himself.

[Ren Ying Ying]

To RYY: Why are you quoting my post when that was what I was saying? Sounds like you're trying to shoot me down

hahaha, sorry about that
i realized i clicked on the wrong "quote" button after making the post...
but i must admit, i didn't read your post carefully either

I doubt this. If DFBB had a GREAT deal of internal energy but had GREEEAAAATEER speed, he wouldn't have thought of such a sentence at all. He would still be extremely impressed with DFBB's internal had DFBB been really that powerful in terms of internal energy. What he clearly meant to say was that DFBB wasn't all that great and remarkable and astonishing in his internal energy. In my opinion, he was thinking along these lines: DFBB's internal just wasn't special, and that it wasn't a huge factor that contributed to his prowess in that particular fight with RWX, XWT and LHC himself.

yes, its obvious that the major factor in DFBB's power is his speed. but, my point was only to bring out that just because LHC didn't think DFBB's power was overwhelming or something along that line, it doesn't mean DFBB's power is weak, and certainly much more powerful than LHC's internal energy.

hence in my personal belief, i doubt DFBB would be overwhelmed by the Du monks's power in just a few exchanges.

[PJ]

did Xiang and Ren use weapon in that fight?

[Huang Rong]

With a real sword, after a dozen of moves or so, there'd be 3 melons appearing beside the 3 century-old trees in the Shaolin mount.

did Xiang and Ren use weapon in that fight?

yes, they did. Ren used a sword and Xiang Wentian used a whip.

[augster123]

With a real sword, after a dozen of moves or so, there'd be 3 melons appearing beside the 3 century-old trees in the Shaolin mount.

maybe...but regardless we all know DFBB's weapon style is the needles...it practically defines him...

can his needle stop a power whip like he did to LHC's sword? thats an unknown...should be doable with the weakest "Du" Monk aka Dunan (who equals a Ming Cult Peak Herald and a Ming Cult Lord added together). however with Duwei, the strongest of the 3 monks, there should be some difficulty.

if DFBB was to get entangled with more than one whip, i think he will be at a major disadvantage because no doubt his speed will decrease substantially, which will result him in an internal energy battle with the 3 Du monks (one that at the very most DFBB can only tie).

[batmankiller]

speed without internal energy is useless as demonstrated in HSDS when the bat king fought the monks.. especially in this case when space to utilize speed is limited

[FlamboyantLife]

About DFBB's internal energy, I think that would be the key weakness. It was mentioned that while DFBB's internal was indeed strong, it wasn't overwhelming. In other words, it seems likely that DFBB isn't way too > than LHC in internal. Based on this idea, I would say the Du generation would excel in the internal area. The thing with close quarter combat is that the Du Generations create this type of force field (not a real one) that blocks out everyone. The closer the 3 are, the stronger this field is.

I'm sorry, I've just checked the book and sadly it didn't state anything about DFBB internal strength. I'm not discounting the fact that I may have missed the part somehow.

Anyhow, logically speaking, to deflect a Dugu 9 sword stance in the hands of LHC is no small feat. If that's not internal strength, what is it exactly? Muscles?
We all know in JY novels that internal stength is the major component of performing such task. Therefore, by saying deflecting a weapon whos mass is more then 1000 times that of a needle without a kickass internal strength is absurd and contradictory.

If DFBB has a weakness, its he's forbidden lover.

[QUOTE][QUOTE]It seems, however, that KHBD is a skill that doesn't seem to require much internal energy. It justs enhances his speed by a scary amount, that's all.
I wouldn't say his/her internal energy would only be slightly above LHC's; I think LHC just realised DFBB wasn't that omnipotent after he understood the key of KHBD.Oh wow, did he? Being a protagonist doesn't mean he is omniscient or anything. LHC did not undersood the key of KHBD. Not before, not after.

He sort of just felt DFBB's internal wasn't that impressive as he thought it out to be after all -- for DFBB was relying mainly on speed to achieve success and that KHBD was no internal energy-building manual, or at least, that wasn't its primary focus.

Your assumtion can't be backed, neither can it be proven. To debate over it is erroneous.

Nevertheless, DFBB must have had a fairly strong reservoir of internal to be able to pull out those feats like knocking away a sword with a needle, etc. Just not that great as compared with RWX et al (individually).

I doubt RWX can win LHC. Not easily anyway. The discreptancy between their skills are minor. And if that is the case, i strongyl doubt RWX can deflect LHC sword with such proficiency and versatality, not to mention DFBB did all that with nothing but just a needle.

if DFBB was to get entangled with more than one whip, i think he will be at a major disadvantage because no doubt his speed will decrease substantially, which will result him in an internal energy battle with the 3 Du monks (one that at the very most DFBB can only tie).

On the contrary, I doubt the whip can match up to his speed. Not even LHC dugu 9 swords, RWX's kickass MA or Xiang Wen Tian could touch the sleeve of DFBB.

In fact, I strongly think that the 3 Du monk weakest point was their position and speed. If one could escape the formationa and hit one of them behind the back, the formation would be easily broken; and that is a feat that could only be accomplished by DFBB inhuman speed.

[Huang Rong]

If in Dongfang's hand is not a real sword, it'd nearly be impossible for him/her to break through 3 Du Monks' force field + formation.

maybe...but regardless we all know DFBB's weapon style is the needles...it practically defines him...

But I think s-he should be given a sword instead of the needle since even such a weak guy as Lin Pingzhi could attack with his long sword in such an incredible speed that shook Linghu Chong, there's no reason that Dongfang can't use a real sword as fast as use his needle.

speed without internal energy is useless as demonstrated in HSDS when the bat king fought the monks.. especially in this case when space to utilize speed is limited

Bat King didn't have a sharp weapon with which he could use to penetrate through the force field as well as 3 Du Monks' throats.

[Huang Rong]

More proof about Dongfang's internal energy:
Chapter 31:
令狐冲手臂微感酸麻，但见红影闪处，似有一物向自己左目戳来。
--- Linghu Chong's arm was slightly numb, he then saw a pink shade flash, there seemed to be something thrusting toward his left eye.---

In chapter 26, while fighting with Chong Xu, Linghu Chong also felt numb at his arm each time his sword clashed with the Priest's.
Dongfang with a tiny needle could do what Priest Chong Xu did with a long sword --> Dongfang's internal energy must have been incredibly powerful.
(IMO, it should have been threefold as Chong Xu's)

[augster123]

0_0
woah it looks like the odds are against the Du Monks. time to play devils advocate for those 3.

although it sez RWX, LHC and XWT cant seem to hit DFBB at all, i gotta give some benefit of doubt if it would be the same for the 3 Du Monks.

the 3 bald guys were described to be able to attack and defend so effectively that they were like one unit...in that sense, certainly their 'well-experienced and well-trained' trio combo should prove to be better than the mix-up trio that RWX, LHC, and XWT became on the spot.

and now time for me to put in some of my awesome assumptions which is based mostly on the TVB 1986 adaptation. (since i haven't had the privilege to read the translated part of the fight yet)

the power whips aside from possibly enclosing the fighting area to a smaller and smaller space (which results in their opponent being trapped/slowed down/forced to compete internal energy with the 3) are also soft when need to be (for wrapping onto the opponent's body/limbs purpose as well as utilizing a lil of the uber "Soft Overcomes Hard" Martial Arts philosophy), hard (tightening the whips trap on an opponent or for the actual hard whipping part) and should be pretty lengthy. the length part of the whips should be the tricky part cuz the opponent cant tell when the whips are soft or hard as he/she tries to take out a solo Du Monk. and given the enclosing fighting space, it is more than likely he/she will have to have some body contact with a whip or two. as he/she is travelling towards a monk, the sides of the whip can suddenly "snap" at them or "wrap'em" at any time. for someone like ZWJ who has auto-9Yang body protection and knowledge of Tai Chi as well as QKDLY, the problem is manageable. but what about for the speedy pretty boy lover? it doesn't look too good.

[batmankiller]

Bat King didn't have a sharp weapon with which he could use to penetrate through the force field as well as 3 Du Monks' throats.

Yes but remember internal energy determines for the most part how "hard/sharp" a weapon can be.. and if the monks have more internal energy than DFBB.. more than to the pint where the whip overpwers the needles sharpness... and DFBB's internal.. that's a big problem he's gotta deal with.

[Ren Ying Ying]

maybe...but regardless we all know DFBB's weapon style is the needles...it practically defines him...

we have no idea whether DFBB chose the needle on purpose or whether it was the only thing he could get hold at the moment. but, KHBD/PXJF are both sword techniques and are meant to be used as a sword. thus, the most efficient weapon for DFBB should be a sword, no matter whether it's his style or not.

the power whips aside from possibly enclosing the fighting area to a smaller and smaller space (which results in their opponent being trapped/slowed down/forced to compete internal energy with the 3) are also soft when need to be (for wrapping onto the opponent's body/limbs purpose as well as utilizing a lil of the uber "Soft Overcomes Hard" Martial Arts philosophy), hard (tightening the whips trap on an opponent or for the actual hard whipping part) and should be pretty lengthy. the length part of the whips should be the tricky part cuz the opponent cant tell when the whips are soft or hard as he/she tries to take out a solo Du Monk. and given the enclosing fighting space, it is more than likely he/she will have to have some body contact with a whip or two. as he/she is travelling towards a monk, the sides of the whip can suddenly "snap" at them or "wrap'em" at any time. for someone like ZWJ who has auto-9Yang body protection and knowledge of Tai Chi as well as QKDLY, the problem is manageable. but what about for the speedy pretty boy lover? it doesn't look too good.

well, if "theorizing" on attacking strategies. once can argue that DFBB can stab all three Du monks before they're able to react to his movements.