What if Zhuge Liang was alive during the seige of Xiang Yang?

[ToiletMonk]

What would be the outcome if Zhuge Liang( the semi fictional version of rotk where hes uber smart) were alive when the mongolians seiged Xiang Yang. Lets throw in Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Zhao Yun, Ma Chao and Huang Zhong too.

[LuNaR]

the sung lost casue of corrupted government, so if zhuge liang was in charge, i doubt they'll lose. no need guan yu, zhang fei, etc... juss need 1 GJ and 1 HR.

[JusTea242]

Just need ZhugeLiang + sweeper. Sweeper can rush the entire mongol army without any injury,Heck he can kill any top mongolian fighters in 1 stroke.

[JamesG]

You've got to remember that historically, Xiangyang surrendered after a neighboring city was destroyed by the Mongols. There was no final battle.

[Wafiville]

okay if zhuge liang was still alive, there would be no hitler and napolean, and the entire planet would be china

[Wafiville]

Just need ZhugeLiang + sweeper. Sweeper can rush the entire mongol army without any injury,Heck he can kill any top mongolian fighters in 1 stroke.

oh my goodness
whats with all u and sweeper

[Ken Cheng]

The Chinese would still lose. No strategy in the world can overcome a demoralized and uninspired army. Only China's huge numerical and home field advantage enabled it to resist for as long as it did.

[Huang Rong]

If the 5 Tiger Generals of Shu were thrown in RoCH:
Guan Yu and Zhang Fei would say: Hmmph, who the heck are the Greats, how dare those peasants of the lowest class consider themself above us in terms of MA! Let's find them to fight 500 rounds.
Then after a deadly battle atop Hua Shan a k a the 2nd Hua Shan Sword meet, Guan Yu, Zhang Fei, Huang Yaoshi and Zhou Botong would either be dead or suffer serious internal injuries.

Ma Chao'd see Xiao Longnv and Yang Guo, he'd think: Heck! How come an one-armed guy can have such a beautiful lover! I'm more handsome than him! That gal must be mine, not his!
Then he'd challenge Yang Guo to a life-or-death duel, after 1000 rounds or so, they would both die of exhaustion.

With the deaths of 3 Tiger Generals and 3 Greats, finally Xiang Yang would still fall as it did in RoCH the original.

[Loke-Gao-Zhu]

lol if you're referring to the one from Romance of the 3 kingdoms, yea the stone maze > mongolians

in real history Zhuge Liang was credited a politician instead a military strategist. the best military strategists are cao cao / sima yi / zhou yu

[tape]

After watching 300, I'm convinced that Spartans are either on par with elite martial artists, or Jin Yong greatly downgraded martial arts' effectiveness in battle.

[Ken Cheng]

After watching 300, I'm convinced that Spartans are either on par with elite martial artists, or Jin Yong greatly downgraded martial arts' effectiveness in battle.

Although the Spartans' great courage and strength cannot be discounted, they were greatly helped by the unique geography of Thermopylae. Had the battle taken place on an open field, the results would have been very different.

Never underestimate the value of geography in warfare.

[Wafiville]

lol if you're referring to the one from Romance of the 3 kingdoms, yea the stone maze > mongolians

in real history Zhuge Liang was credited a politician instead a military strategist. the best military strategists are cao cao / sima yi / zhou yu

zhuge liang pissed off zhou yu to death

[JusTea242]

romance of the three kindoms is not real history,san guo zhi is real.

[tape]

Although the Spartans' great courage and strength cannot be discounted, they were greatly helped by the unique geography of Thermopylae. Had the battle taken place on an open field, the results would have been very different.

Never underestimate the value of geography in warfare.

Realistically it would seem a fortress would be easier to hold than a narrow pass. Being inside a fortress allows you to rain arrows from the high ground, and forces them to scale the walls while you're easily killing them the whole time. The chokepoint of the pass was key to Spartan success, but wouldn't force-scaling of a large fortress wall have the same effect? Only a certain amount of soldiers can be scaling at any time, much like the effect of the pass at the Battle of Thermopylae. It seems like the Spartan advantage in much better armor and weapons and formation was just as key to victory, which even just decent martial artists should be greater than.

[ken2004]

Actually, in this whole thing, the most important people will be the leader of the kingdom as he is the one that manipulate the whole situation in the country. It will be kinda pointless to have so many able people if you do not use them wisely.

So, at the end of the day, even though Zhuge Liang is in Xiang Yang at the time, he still could not save the city as he does not have the support from the government and most probably he will just end up like the General Yue Fei. Most probably he will win a few great war but as time goes by, the city will still fall.

[SkineePanda]

Realistically it would seem a fortress would be easier to hold than a narrow pass. Being inside a fortress allows you to rain arrows from the high ground, and forces them to scale the walls while you're easily killing them the whole time. The chokepoint of the pass was key to Spartan success, but wouldn't force-scaling of a large fortress wall have the same effect? Only a certain amount of soldiers can be scaling at any time, much like the effect of the pass at the Battle of Thermopylae. It seems like the Spartan advantage in much better armor and weapons and formation was just as key to victory, which even just decent martial artists should be greater than.

You forgot the importance of supplies. The garrison holding the fortress can still be surrounded and starved out. An army holding a pass on the otherhand still has access to supplies and reinforcements. Moreever a narrow pass only had to defend at one point. One can just concentrate all his forces to defend that one chokehold. Whereas a fort has to defend all four sides from attackers.

[Ren Wo Xing]

You forgot the importance of supplies. The garrison holding the fortress can still be surrounded and starved out. An army holding a pass on the otherhand still has access to supplies and reinforcements. Moreever a narrow pass only had to defend at one point. One can just concentrate all his forces to defend that one chokehold. Whereas a fort has to defend all four sides from attackers.

Very true. Assuming no major imbalances in training/weaponry, generally around 3x the number of defending forces are needed in a traditional 'siege', unless one adopts a more long term 'starve them out' approach. In a narrow mountain, considerably more would be needed.