300

[Moinllieon]

Yes it is the end of Xerces army but not the Persian-Greco war and absolutely not the end of the Persian Army, it was only ended in the Battle of Plataea. What I mean as decisive defeat means the Persian is not coming back to attack.

Maybe you ended your Greek History Lesson 101 after the Xerces defeat and ignoring other subsequent battle after it.

It's a bit of semantics isn't it? Xerxes called off massive scale conquest after the defeat at Salamis, he went back Persia himself while leaving a much smaller contingent of his forces in the hands of his general in Greece to maintain leverage while suing for peace. After the Greeks rejected, Battle of Plataea happened. But I think we can all agree that Salamis ended the threat of Persian conquest, Plataea was mere formality that signaled the end of the second Persian invasion.

[SkyKing]

What do you mean nothing else is good besides the cg? The actors were quite good imo, the sword fights were also great. I do agree that the story is so so but what do you expect when it is based on history.

lol....only the queen really act....the other people, i don't really see any acting.....

[Bangs]

lol....only the queen really act....the other people, i don't really see any acting.....

You make it sound like acting is an easy job. LOL!

[atlantean0208]

It's a bit of semantics isn't it? Xerxes called off massive scale conquest after the defeat at Salamis, he went back Persia himself while leaving a much smaller contingent of his forces in the hands of his general in Greece to maintain leverage while suing for peace. After the Greeks rejected, Battle of Plataea happened. But I think we can all agree that Salamis ended the threat of Persian conquest, Plataea was mere formality that signaled the end of the second Persian invasion.

lol, what a joke, 110,000 soldiers of greek vs 300,000 Persians a formality... and what a pity in the movie, the ending shown is the opening to the of battle of Plataea and not Salamis, well I guess you're still not watching the movies then

BTW, the battle of Salamis is not that impressive coz its just a Ramming Ship Battle which is just suck, compare to the coolness and impressiveness of the Hoplite Phalanx formation as shown by the Spartan warrior...

SPARTAAAANNN!!!, Tonight, we dine in hell!!!

[Moinllieon]

lol, what a joke, 110,000 soldiers of greek vs 300,000 Persians a formality... and what a pity in the movie, the ending shown is the opening to the of battle of Plataea and not Salamis, well I guess you're still not watching the movies then

Those numbers are only according to Herodotus and have "been doubted by several modern historians."

http://www.herodotuswebsite.co.uk/plataea.htm
About 120,000 Persians left behind (including Immortals).

http://monolith.dnsalias.org/~marsar...e/plataea.html
48000 Persians vs. 110,000 Greeks

http://wildfiregames.com/0ad/page.php?p=1503
50,000 Persians, including about 10,000 calvary.

http://www.geocities.com/caesarkevin...kbattles2.html
No more than 70,000 Persians.

http://www.militaryhistoryonline.com...a/default.aspx
"[C]onjectures, based on the reported size of Mardonios' stockade, that the force could have been as large as 120,000."

Either way, it seems a fairly even match up in terms of numbers.

And that's not factoring in the fact that even the heaviest of the Persian heavy infantry is less armored than the Greek hoplites. Essentially, the Greeks were numerically comparable (at least) but in possession of superior equipment/technology.

Yes, it was a formality. Considering the battle history between the 2 civilizations from Marathon through Thermoplyae to Gaugamela, anytime the light Persian infantry failed to use its superior numbers to encircle the Greek phalanx, they lost decisively because their lines cannot match the Greeks head on. (This applies to Roman battles as well.)

The battle of Plataea itself consist of a tactical retreat by the Greeks onto slightly higher ground before a headlong charge back down onto pursuing Persian troops. That's it. Not terribly exciting. To be honest, neither was the Battle of Thermopylae, where 8000 Greeks took shifts at a narrow pass in forming a shield wall that the Persians can't break through, but it was tactically interesting how the Greeks took advantage of terrain to fight such a successful defensive battle. But if not for the 3rd day sacrifice of the 300 Spartans and 1000+ Thespians, nobody would remember much of it, just like nobody remembered much of the equally heroic naval defense put up Themistocles right next to the Spartans (the only reason Xerxes couldn't just load his army onto his ships and bypass the pass completely).

As for Salamis, well, naval warfare isn't always as appealing as armed combat I suppose. But unlike Plataea, it seems like most historians agree that the Greeks were outnumbered 3 to 1 here. They laid a clever trap to lure the Persian fleet to a narrow inlet and ambushed them.

BTW, the battle of Salamis is not that impressive coz its just a Ramming Ship Battle which is just suck, compare to the coolness and impressiveness of the Hoplite Phalanx formation as shown by the Spartan warrior...

The phalanx is pragmatic, ruthless, only capable of doing one thing and one thing alone: going forward. It is essentially a ram that runs headlong into enemy formation in hopes of puncturing a hole in the formation and causing it to crumble. (See the parallel to the trireme here?)

SPARTAAAANNN!!!, Tonight, we dine in hell!!!

Amen to that. Does get the blood flowing.

[atlantean0208]

Amen to that. Does get the blood flowing.

lol, I totally agree with you about that.

Actually Yi Sun Shin also doing impressive naval battle in the battle of Myeongnyang, with only 13 korean ships, vs 300 japanese ships.

Lol surely the number 300 is famous for last-stand battle

[pannonian]

The phalanx is pragmatic, ruthless, only capable of doing one thing and one thing alone: going forward. It is essentially a ram that runs headlong into enemy formation in hopes of puncturing a hole in the formation and causing it to crumble. (See the parallel to the trireme here?)

Indeed. Spartan enthusiasts should look up the name Epaminondas. A far cooler man than anyone in the entire history of Sparta.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epaminondas

[NextNoName]

To me the Spartans had been the bad guys who practiced eugenic and their worse deed had been their snuffing out the cultured Athenians. 300 gives a fresh look and picks the period when Spartans and Athenians worked together to preserve their heritage. After this Spartans and Athenians turn on each other and that sadly ended the Greek as the model civilization of Europe.

I give this movie 10/10. It gives what the audience including myself want that is lots and lots of fighting. It's a pump-me-up movie. The plot is simple without unnecessary subplots and is a plus in this case. It gives a fresh look on the Spartans. The overall feel of the visual is outstanding.

On the down side, it paints the Persians as bad (in fact Sauronlike) and the Spartans overly good. Since this is a pump-me-up kind of a movie I can overlook that.

[Wild-Fire]

Is it true that the Spartan fought a war with the Athenians and in the end Athenians lost the war because they can't fight the Spartan and fortify them self in their city and later disease killed 3/4 of Athenians?? I don't if this is how it supposed to history, I saw this on History channel.

[pannonian]

Is it true that the Spartan fought a war with the Athenians and in the end Athenians lost the war because they can't fight the Spartan and fortify them self in their city and later disease killed 3/4 of Athenians?? I don't if this is how it supposed to history, I saw this on History channel.

The Spartans were almost invincible in the field, but they weren't very good at storming fortifications, so each year would see the Spartan army march out during the campaigning season, burn as much of the Athenian fields as they could (since they couldn't take the city), before returning before their slaves revolted in their absence. However, Athens had absolute command of the sea, having more ships and better sailors, and they could feed themselves with grain imported from the Crimea. With Athens unable to contest on land, and Sparta unable to contest at sea, the war became a stalemate.

This changed with a Spartan politician-general called Lysander. He used his friendship with the Persian prince Kyros to gain Persian money, with which he built ships and bought other Greek sailors, pricing Athens out of the market. He was also a decent admiral in his own right, and he slowly reduced the Athenian fleet and their ability to collect tribute or transport grain to Athens. After the destruction of their final fleet, Athens was left with no sea supply at all, and Sparta followed up by besieging Athens from land. After a year of starvation and disease, the Athenians surrendered, bringing the Peloponnesian War to an end. Athens' walls were pulled down, the Athenians weren't allowed a navy, democracy was abolished and a pro-Sparta oligarchy put in place, and the leaders of the resistance against Sparta were executed.

The Spartan domination didn't last, as Athenian democrats secretly helped the Thebans restore their independence, led by Pelopidas and Epaminondas. The Thebans pioneered a new way of warfare, that emphasised innovation and flexibility, and repeatedly thrashed the Spartans who stuck to their old battering ram tactics.

One of those most struck by this new Theban age was a Macedonian hostage called Philip, who was inspired by his time in Thebes to reform the Macedonian army. This radically new Macedonian army would later be used by Philip to unite all of Greece, and later used by his son Alexander to conquer the Persian empire.

[Digitalis]

I never really expected it to be totally historically accurate, given that it's based on a graphic novel. It was a pretty cool film though and I liked the slightly supernatural touches added to it as well.

[douggilmour]

The Spartans were almost invincible in the field, but they weren't very good at storming fortifications, so each year would see the Spartan army march out during the campaigning season, burn as much of the Athenian fields as they could (since they couldn't take the city), before returning before their slaves revolted in their absence. However, Athens had absolute command of the sea, having more ships and better sailors, and they could feed themselves with grain imported from the Crimea. With Athens unable to contest on land, and Sparta unable to contest at sea, the war became a stalemate.

This changed with a Spartan politician-general called Lysander. He used his friendship with the Persian prince Kyros to gain Persian money, with which he built ships and bought other Greek sailors, pricing Athens out of the market. He was also a decent admiral in his own right, and he slowly reduced the Athenian fleet and their ability to collect tribute or transport grain to Athens. After the destruction of their final fleet, Athens was left with no sea supply at all, and Sparta followed up by besieging Athens from land. After a year of starvation and disease, the Athenians surrendered, bringing the Peloponnesian War to an end. Athens' walls were pulled down, the Athenians weren't allowed a navy, democracy was abolished and a pro-Sparta oligarchy put in place, and the leaders of the resistance against Sparta were executed.

The Spartan domination didn't last, as Athenian democrats secretly helped the Thebans restore their independence, led by Pelopidas and Epaminondas. The Thebans pioneered a new way of warfare, that emphasised innovation and flexibility, and repeatedly thrashed the Spartans who stuck to their old battering ram tactics.

One of those most struck by this new Theban age was a Macedonian hostage called Philip, who was inspired by his time in Thebes to reform the Macedonian army. This radically new Macedonian army would later be used by Philip to unite all of Greece, and later used by his son Alexander to conquer the Persian empire.

I object your over simplification of the war. Athens was the preeminent Super power of Ancient Greece. They were spreading the democratic ideals throughout the Agean, sometimes willingly, sometimes forced democraric change (cound familiar?). Athens itself was flourishing in its Periclean Golden age, while Sparta was a backwater of no more than 80,000 ppl.

The downfall of Athens was the destruction of its lifeblood, its fleet. The Sicilian expedition to fight Syracuse (Spartan ally) by Alcibiades was a disaster. With their fleet destroyed, Athens had no way to enforce its influence on their empire and soon many defections took place within the Delian league.

So the seige was on, but now Athens had no way of resupplying itself without a substantial fleet, were forced to surrender.

[JamesG]

From what I've read about the Spartan's bronze armor, the Spartan soldiers were more like tanks than infantry. No running and leaping for those guys.

[pannonian]

I object your over simplification of the war. Athens was the preeminent Super power of Ancient Greece. They were spreading the democratic ideals throughout the Agean, sometimes willingly, sometimes forced democraric change (cound familiar?). Athens itself was flourishing in its Periclean Golden age, while Sparta was a backwater of no more than 80,000 ppl.

Athens was indeed a far preferable civilisation than Sparta, which I regard as the epitome of all things I wouldn't want my country to be, but I didn't want to make cultural judgements in my summary of the end of the Peloponnesian War (which was the point I replied to). Sparta was a society of ultra-conservative elitists built on the work of the despised lower classes and terrorised slaves (they ritually declared war on their slaves every year, opening up the annual hunting season of helots). If the western democracies is the modern day descendants of the Athenians, the closest recent civilisation to the Spartans would probably be Nazi Germany.

The downfall of Athens was the destruction of its lifeblood, its fleet. The Sicilian expedition to fight Syracuse (Spartan ally) by Alcibiades was a disaster. With their fleet destroyed, Athens had no way to enforce its influence on their empire and soon many defections took place within the Delian league.

So the seige was on, but now Athens had no way of resupplying itself without a substantial fleet, were forced to surrender.

The Sicilian expedition was a severe self-inflicted wound for Athens, but the decisive factor in ending the war was Lysander and his Persian money. Even without the machinations of Alcibiades, the Athenians would have been outbid by the Spartans anyway. Athenian naval strength depended greatly on allied effort, and the Spartans simply bought them, upping the market rate to a level the Athenians couldn't match. Given that Kyros felt strong enough to contest the throne of Persia later, he could probably have supplied more money if the Spartans required it.

Ironic how a thread discussing the heroics of Spartans against Persia should wind up discussing how Sparta would ally with Persia against their erstwhile allies Athens.

[JamesG]

Then came King Philip and his son Alexander who put everything right.

[sha*sha]

i never went to see the movie myself.. but i heard that some of the spartans had "fake abs" ... LOL hahahaha -- is that even possible? or are my friends bssing to me?

[Wild-Fire]

i never went to see the movie myself.. but i heard that some of the spartans had "fake abs" ... LOL hahahaha -- is that even possible? or are my friends bssing to me?

Ya its true, they use washable spray paint to make the abs to look more define, its will known as part of movie magic. In the movie Troy Brad Pitt also got painted.

[kimtsf]

SPARTAAAANNN!!!, Tonight, we dine in hell!!!

ooooh! My favorite line in the movie!

EAT A HEARTY BREAKFAST! FOR TONIGHT, WE DINE IN HELL!!

-so cool

[sarakoth]

Haha. Well, you should realize the CGI is not Hollywood but is based in a small city outside of Montreal Quebec, Canada. This is a small company that is doing these special effects.
Link of comp.

So I don't see why China serials can't do the same....

Chinese serials don't have that kind of money. They only have like $10 million AT MOST for an entire serial.

[dracnom]

The fighting got repetitive... but i like that supernatural guy with the clam/guillotine-like hands :P