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Thread: How much power did a Prince Consort actually have?

  1. #1
    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Default How much power did a Prince Consort actually have?

    Hui Juk married a princess of the Hsi Hsia Kingdom and became the Prince Consort (i.e. "fu ma") of that kingdom. Gwok Jing also held the title of Golden Sabre Prince Consort of the Mongol Empire even though he never formally married Princess Hua Jeng.

    In the case of Hui Juk, it was believed that his ascension to the rank of Prince Consort would ensure ongoing peace between the Hsi Hsia Kingdom and the Dali Kingdom (because Hui Juk's sworn brother was Deun Yu, who would soon gain the rank of King of Dali). When Gwok Jing was still on good terms with Genghis Khan, Gwok Jing wielded quite a bit of military authority, although I'm not so sure that this was a function of his title as Prince Consort as it was his value to Genghis Khan as commander of his forces.

    Really, though, how much political/military authority would a Prince Consort really have, especially if he comes from humble (i.e. non-noble) beginnings? A Prince Consort is an in-law...a ROYAL in-law, perhaps, but an in-law nonetheless. Would the King of Hsia Hsia listen to Hui Juk in the event of conflict with Dali Kingdom or the Northern Sung Kingdom? We know that Genghis Khan wouldn't abandon his war against the Southern Sung Kingdom just because Gwok Jing advised him to.

    Seems to me that the Prince Consort's power is actually very limited.

  2. #2
    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    Hard to answer. Historically, unless you came from a powerful noble or royal family, you have ZERO chance of being a prince consort. A powerful man marrying a princess will of course get more clout but the point is that you have to be powerful in the first place.

    Its only those princesses from disgraced branches that will get married off to commoners or barbarian tribes etc etc.

    For Xu Zhu, he will probably have zero influence at court but since he is a heXxor martial artist, he has his own power base to abuse if he so chooses.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CC
    For Xu Zhu, he will probably have zero influence at court but since he is a heXxor martial artist, he has his own power base to abuse if he so chooses.
    What's interesting about Hui Juk is that because he was an heir of Lee Chou Sui, the 1 Bun Tong force would, by all rights, be inherited by him, wouldn't it? It was Lee Chou Sui, after all, who founded the 1 Bun Tong as her personal enforcer group. If the 1 Bun Tong didn't disband after Lee Chou Sui's death, then they would subsequently fall under Hui Juk's command. The 1 Bun Tong represented the creme de la creme of Hsi Hsia's martial artists. Hmmmm....I wonder if their loyalties would go to Hui Juk or the King of Hsi Hsia.

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    Senior Member CC's Avatar
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    By the time Xu Zhu married the princess, 2nd, 3rd and 4th evil were dead and 1st Evil was in all likelihood retired from wulin (after the Duan Yu incident). What other fighters were in Yi Pin Tang?

    Even with the 4 evils, the YPT is nothing compared to Xu Zhu's own martial arts or his Ling Jiu maids.
    Its BIxie Jianfa Gawdammit you guys!!!!

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Now I have a question...can a Prince Consort get other wives? What about after he becomes king?

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    Moderator Ren Wo Xing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogeyman
    Now I have a question...can a Prince Consort get other wives? What about after he becomes king?
    A prince consort virtually has no chance of becoming King, except in extremely special cases.

  7. #7
    Senior Member The Khan's Avatar
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    you probably don't want to be the king of the kingdom that was one of the first to be destroyed by Ghenghis Khan

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing
    A prince consort virtually has no chance of becoming King, except in extremely special cases.
    What if they king only had one daughter and no sons? And the king also have no brothers. Could the Prince Consort get more wives then?

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    Senior Member kyss of the sword's Avatar
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    LQS herself was only a concubine, and on her wedding night, she was disfigured by TSTL. supposedly the king stayed away from her, through in an adaption, it seemed she used a skin mask to cover her scars so she still looked beautiful and in her thirties. course if the king stayed away from her, the princess could not have been her granddaughter, so i guess he came back to her bed. LQS was probably the best looking concubine and probably had a lot of favours and power from the king, plus she's intelligent and capable. her side of the 'royal family' probably had a lot of power, and since XuZhu is technically from that side due to XYP conections; through if the king understands that or not is in question, he also is the leader of over a thousand wulin warriors from the 72 caves and 36 islands. porbably comparable to about five thousand ordinary soldiers. plus sworn bro of the king of dali so XuZhu has enough status to be considered an ideal candidate for the princess and a worthy grandson-in-law. i wonder, did LQS have a daughter or son, how was the princess related to her. if LQS had a son, he could be a candidate to be the king since, a son of LQS had to be talented and with the teaching's of XYP skills, he would be powerful, a daughter might have become another MDM wang.
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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogeyman
    What if they king only had one daughter and no sons? And the king also have no brothers. Could the Prince Consort get more wives then?
    In England, it has always been the daughter who inherits the throne in such cases. This is how both Queen Elizabeths became monarchs. Queen Elizabeth I was the only child of King Henry VIII, so she ascended to the throne upon her father's death. The same situation is also true with the current Queen Elizabeth II. Her father King George VI died without any male heirs, so Elizabeth became the Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britian. Her husband Prince Philip is the Prince Consort, but he is not and will never be the British king.

    I would imagine similar rules would be in play in Asian monarchies; no monarchic dynasty wants to surrender its royal lineage to an outsider.

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    Senior Member PJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogeyman
    What if they king only had one daughter and no sons?
    That would never happen, right? Considering the emperor usually has tens of legitimate wives and concubines, each of whom may deliver more than one baby. Statistically, it would be very unlikely that all 20+ babies end up being girls.
    忽见柳荫下两个小孩子在哀哀痛哭,瞧模样正是武敦儒、武修文兄弟。郭芙大声叫道:「喂,你们在干甚麽?」武 修文回头见是郭芙,哭道:「我们在哭,你不见麽?」

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    Senior Member sheraldine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    That would never happen, right? Considering the emperor usually has tens of legitimate wives and concubines, each of whom may deliver more than one baby. Statistically, it would be very unlikely that all 20+ babies end up being girls.
    considering emperor has so many wives and concubines, that was why many ended heirless.... some were disposed, some died during infancy, some were crowned but only to be declared illegitimate sooner or later.... the list went on and on but frankly, my father once told me their over indulgence leads to early infertility - fullstop!

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    Senior Member AnhHung's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    That would never happen, right? Considering the emperor usually has tens of legitimate wives and concubines, each of whom may deliver more than one baby. Statistically, it would be very unlikely that all 20+ babies end up being girls.
    DY' father could doit...
    You do know that it is just fiction, dont you?

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    Senior Member ghostdarTeal'c's Avatar
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    in one of the folklore of my country, there was a state ruled by a female monarch, and during her time, she was indeed feared by the neighbouring states. she had no sons, thus her daughter ascended the throne. Due to circumstances, the new queen (the princess) was captured by a king of another kingdom, and was forced to marry him. But something happened to the king before the ceremony, and the healer said it was because of the royal captive he wanted to marry. The king finally released the princess. When she returned to her kingdom, which at the moment ruled by her husband because of her absence, she found out that he had cheated on her and fooled around with another woman. She killed him (note that she killed him, not the other woman) and resumed ruling afterwards, but never remarried.

    now i know this is just folklore, but this only proves that even in the ancient times, folks back then see that a prince consort do not actually have as much power as his wife, the heir of the kingdom. without the support from his wife, he actually cant do anything at all....

    just sharing my thoughts....
    Last edited by ghostdarTeal'c; 03-29-07 at 03:09 AM.
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    [QUOTE=Ken Cheng] Queen Elizabeth I was the only child of King Henry VIII, so she ascended to the throne upon her father's death. QUOTE]

    Ken, QEI was one of King Henry VIII's three children. His son, Edward, died early and his eldest sister Queen Mary I succeeded him. Queen Elizabeth I became queen upon Mary's death.

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    Senior Member Tom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PJ
    That would never happen, right? Considering the emperor usually has tens of legitimate wives and concubines, each of whom may deliver more than one baby. Statistically, it would be very unlikely that all 20+ babies end up being girls.
    There are always chances. Maybe the king is infertile.

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    Senior Member odbayarb2000's Avatar
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    I would like to write about the situation between Guo Jing and Genghis Khan(Chinggis Khaan).

    Historically unless someone who are from royal/noble family has no chance of becoming Prince Consort.
    But Chinggis Khaan was different. He was somehow democratist. He didn't rely on others background. Almost all of his subordinators was from common people who has outstanding abilities in terms of military and political services. For one example, Religion was free within the Mongol Empire though it was broken in later years of Empire.

    I really admired Jing Yong. He really did research on Mongolian history. All most all Mongolian characters were historical people who were mentioned in LOCH. But Princess Hua Zeng was a fictional character.

    During the Chinggis Khaan's era, Someone's holding authority were purely depended on his/her own ability. Therefore Prince Consort's authority would have depended on only Guo Jing's ability.
    Last edited by odbayarb2000; 03-29-07 at 06:51 PM.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by odbayarb2000
    I would like to write about the situation between Guo Jing and Genghis Khan(Chinggis Khaan).

    Historically unless someone who are from royal/noble family has no chance of becoming Prince Consort.
    But Chinggis Khaan was different. He was somehow democratist. He didn't rely on others background. Almost all of his subordinators was from common people who has outstanding abilities in terms of military and political services. For one example, Religion was free within the Mongol Empire though it was broken in later years of Empire.

    I really admired Jing Yong. He really did research on Mongolian history. All most all Mongolian characters were historical people who were mentioned in LOCH. But Princess Hua Zeng was a fictional character.

    During the Chinggis Khaan's era, Someone's holding authority were purely depended on his/her own ability. Therefore Prince Consort's authority would have depended on only Guo Jing's ability.
    Even so, when time came to name an heir to the throne of the Mongol Empire, Genghis would not (and did not) favor Gwok Jing over his own sons.

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    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng
    Even so, when time came to name an heir to the throne of the Mongol Empire, Genghis would not (and did not) favor Gwok Jing over his own sons.
    Right from the start, Guo Jing was never in the running for the throne of the Mongol Empire, because LOCH was one of Jin Yong's earlier works. Jin Yong wasn't too predisposed to bucking history then, although he did become a little more liberal in his later novels.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
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    Senior Member sheraldine's Avatar
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    somewhat off topic but related... the prince consort to queen victoria of england "did", at least not directly. that was why the prince consort (his name albert i think ) never popular with the queen's subject because he influenced his young and besotted wife.

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