Huashan Tournament for the HYPOTHETICAL

[PJ]

For the purpose of this Huanshan Tournament, imagine the following 6 candidates competing for the ultimate title of wulin:

1. Dongfang Bubai, who has been practicing the COMPLETE version of Sunflower Manuscript for 10 years.

2. Lord Long of Gallant Island, who has realized the FULL benefit of Ode to Gallantry art and has been practicing it for 10 years.

3. Demonic Swordsman Dugu Qiubai at his peak.

4. Pre-30 years Sweeper Monk, at the time when Xiao Yuanshan and Murong Bo first entered the Shaolin temple.

5. The Golden Wheel Monk, who has surpassed his own record to reach the 11th stage of Dragon Elephant Prajna (he reached level 10 in the novel).

6. Special Guest: Zhang Sanfeng, who learned the FULL version of 9 Yang Shengong as a teenager.

Who do you envision to be the winner of this FRIENDLY match? Now, this tournament will adhere to the classical format established by the Greats, consisting of a theoretical martial arts discussion AND a practical combative aspect.

Cast your vote and discuss.

[Snafu3721]

For the purpose of this Huanshan Tournament, imagine the following 6 candidates competing for the ultimate title of wulin:

1. Dongfang Bubai, who has been practicing the COMPLETE version of Sunflower Manuscript for 10 years.

2. Lord Long of Gallant Island, who has realized the FULL benefit of Ode to Gallantry art and has been practicing it for 10 years.

3. Demonic Swordsman Dugu Qiubai at his peak.

4. Pre-30 years Sweeper Monk, at the time when Xiao Yuanshan and Murong Bo first entered the Shaolin temple.

5. The Golden Wheel Monk, who has surpassed his own record to reach the 11th stage of Dragon Elephant Prajna (he reached level 10 in the novel).

6. Special Guest: Zhang Sanfeng, who learned the FULL version of 9 Yang Shengong as a teenager.

Who do you envision to be the winner of this FRIENDLY match? Now, this tournament will adhere to the classical format established by the Greats, consisting of a theoretical martial arts discussion AND a practical combative aspect.

Cast your vote and discuss.

I favor Sword Demon Dugu. Assuming LHC, who didn't even reach "no sword overcomes the sword" or the 9th Stance of DG9J, can defeat characters with many times his internal power... then Someone of Dugu's caliber can probably defeat almost everyone on that list, with the exception of maybe Sweeper (Since he seems to be very enlightened and probably also has insight on "formlessness"). But I voted Dugu anyways because his name is awesome and he just seems more mysterious.

[shanghai girls are hot]

i pick sweeper monk vs dugu qiubai

[shortsight]

I'm not even sure pre-30 years Sweeper Monk has any difference to the one that tap elites around in the later part of DGSD. At the time when Xiao Yuanshan and Murong Bo first entered the Shaolin temple he could spied on them without them knowing.

And since it will adhere to the classical format established by the Greats, consisting of a theoretical martial arts discussion AND a practical combative aspect, sweeper should already win half the tourney with the theoritical part in his bag. Zhang Sanfeng should be 2nd to sweeper in theory part, but i imagine ZSF getting excited and enlightened with sweeper more than sweeper enlightened about ZSF.

The rest with: DFBB with complete sunflower manual, JLFW up a level, Lord Long with ode art should be pretty much equal just like OYF, H7G, HYS. I rate DGQB at his best could be a bit better than this group due largely to mysticism and lacked of knowledge of this character and also his reputation of being by far the strongest in his generation, but ZSF as a youngster although with complete 9 yang should be the weakest. i just think it's not possible for a young ZSF to have any chance of beating JLFW at level 11.

so, i vote for sweeper.

[CC]

What??? You didn't add in these 2 special guests?


SWORD GOD Zhuo Bufan with Yi Jin Jing and Ice Worm Internal.

BRAIN GOD Hu Fei with Original Complete Daizong Way Manuscript.

[CC]

The theory debate between Sweeper, Z3F and Dugu will have Lord Long crying in admiration. While DFBB sighs that there are no beautiful females in the realm of such peerless fighters and laments that elite martial arts are worthless when compared to true beauty.

7 days later.....

Sweeper and Z3F will have managed to merge Taoism and Buddhism into some Zen+Tao everything is everything and nothing is nothing abstract while Dugu has gone blue from the anticipation of getting these two to fight him.

In between, GWM would have been demoralised with the speed DFBB has shown and left the tournament, thinking that even level 12 of Dragon Elephant Prana would not be sufficient.

edit : PJ stated that Z3F learnt full 9 Yang when young. Not that a young Z3F is joining the tournament. That means he learnt 9 Yang in his teens and is now 100 years old. I think thats what PJ intended. 90 years of 9 Yang cultivation.

[FlamboyantLife]

I rate DGQB at his best could be a bit better than this group due largely to mysticism and lacked of knowledge of this character......
so, i vote for sweeper.

If ignorance and sporadical manifestation in and out of the novel was proportianate to strength, there are a couple more characters that fits the bill.

The rest with: DFBB with complete sunflower manual, JLFW up a level, Lord Long with ode art should be pretty much equal just like OYF, H7G, HYS.

I can't help but noticed the huge contradiction in this part.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

LPZ, an unseasoned and fresh practitioner of BXJF, was able to completely TOY with 2 martial exponents, Mu Gao Feng and Qing Chen Sect leader.

BXJF comes directly from the memorization of a monk after contemplating the 2 different parts at Hua Shan.

KHBD was the collective modification of the manual by the 10 cult elders after they killed the Hua SHan elders and stole the 2 different parts.

Therefore, any sensible and intelligent human being would be able to deduce that
KHBD is at least a notch higher then BXJF or even alot better.

In XAJH, DFBB was stormed by the trio RWX, LHC and XWT, unprepared and unarmed, but was still able to prick the trio a few dozen times with the needle he has in hand from sewing a peice of garment when they barged in.

What if DFBB was prepared?

What if the needle was stained in poison beforehand?

What if DFBB used something that could at least be considered a weapon?

RWX = SHaolin Fang Zhang.
LHC = Taught by FQY for months and grasp the essence of DGQB.
XWT = Nothing was said other then being gangbanged by a few hundred of second/third tier fighter and getting away alive while killing a dozen of them.

DFBB wins for sure.

[PJ]

So, none has confidence in Lord Long thus far. In my opinion, once he taps into the full power of Ode to Gallantry art, he would immediately be on par with Shi Potian at the end of novel. I doubt that Shi Potian before learning OTG was better than the lord in terms of internal energy. After 10 years of practicing OTG, Lord Long should be SIGNIFICANTLY more powerful than Shi Potian.

Therefore, I vote Lord Long.

[yittz]

And i bet Lord Long will have better understanding of martial arts, and very experienced in that field. Considering he has the best fighters to discuss with, and has great information gathering.

We generally rank SPT around XZ. So we have an experienced XZ walking around. Is that not enough to give Sweeper a run for the money?

Sweeper noticed sneaking in by the two martial artist probably several decades ago. So at 30 years ago, his ability was already enough to evade two near greats while detecting them. So already he was way above them. Also I doubt he practiced kungfu much, though his nirvana may have improved, the fact that he was laying out books and not going out and wtfbbqpwn the two hinted that he is already at peace and reached a high level of cultivation - indicative of high Shaolin (if he was Shaolin) ability.

DFBB was a sword in his hand and the complete script, not the PiXieJian fa or the incomplete Kui Hua Baodian, is also scary. Imagine the speed...

JLFW with lvl11, shouldn't be that impressive in that field. Even with double ability that's no where near SPT.

Jue Yuan showed what 9 Yang complete can do. With Z3F's talent he may able to be 2x what he is now with full, but that's not enough to compete with the field. 9Yang only gives internal cultivation, Z3F still have to make his own techniques based on those scraps and pieces.

Dugu, no idea where he is. But I think DY, XZ and SPT can be described as beating sword without a sword.

[Dennis Chen]

The hero-worship is strong with this one.

[PJ]

JLFW with lvl11, shouldn't be that impressive in that field. Even with double ability that's no where near SPT.

I think the 11th stage of DEP may/should be sufficient to approach Shi Potian.

Actually, I have no idea why everybody suddenly thinks Shi Potian is so powerful. Just because he defeated Lord Long and Lord Mu of Gallant Island doesn't mean he's necessarily twice as good as the Greats.

[FlamboyantLife]

I think the 11th stage of DEP may/should be sufficient to approach Shi Potian.

Actually, I have no idea why everybody suddenly thinks Shi Potian is so powerful. Just because he defeated Lord Long and Lord Mu of Gallant Island doesn't mean he's necessarily twice as good as the Greats.

Remember the part in the novel where Mo Tian Ju Shi performed a magnificent feat? Using nothing but his internal energy to form a thick cirle of leaves around him?

I don't think any of the greats would be able to reach that level. That being said, even he was afradi of XKD. And its pretty safe to assume
SPT>1 Lord>Mo Tian Ju Shi>great

[PJ]

Remember the part in the novel where Mo Tian Ju Shi performed a magnificent feat? Using nothing but his internal energy to form a thick cirle of leaves around him?

Xie Yanke used his internal energy to keep thousands of pine needles in the air. I guess he had to keep projecting his internal power upward with his hand. While the feat is impressive, it might be too bold to suggest that it could not be done by the Greats or even somebody like Yue Hou of SPW (after all, it's just pushing upward with internal energy). On the other hand, it is implied that Bai Zizai and Xie Yanke are unable to perform SOATTA (sealing of acupoints through the air), which Emperor Duan Zhengming of DGSD could perform.

[Ren Wo Xing]

Wow, Sweeper and Dugu have by far swept the field.

I wonder if Sweeper would praise Dugu for being 'enlightened' and to 'beg for defeat' instead of constantly hoping for yet another empty victory ;P

[Felix]

DFBB, heck no. I just can't see that the best theory of martial arts is one that has to amputate a certain body part.

pre-30 Sweeper Monk, he is still the best? That means even if Dugu spend 30 more years to train, he would still lose to old age Sweeper Monk?

If Z3F learned the complete 9 Yang, would he have been able to invent Taichi Fist and Taichi swordsplay earlier in his age?

Lord Long, like PJ says if he was able to learn the full Ode to Gallantry would have been much better than Shi Po Tian I would think. Unless that figurines thing that SPT learned was very useful.

Golden Wheel Monk martial arts, I heard it could go up to 13 right? Has anyone ever learned the 13th stage? I am guessing only the person who invented the 13th stage?

I go with Dugu.

[PJ]

Golden Wheel Monk martial arts, I heard it could go up to 13 right? Has anyone ever learned the 13th stage? I am guessing only the person who invented the 13th stage?

The 13th level of DEP (Dragon Elephant Prajna) would require about 1000 years of cultivation, says Jin Yong. No one in Jin Yong wuxia can ever hope to reach that level. The creator of DEP reached level 8 or 9, but fire deviated to death.

[Ken Cheng]

The 13th level of DEP (Dragon Elephant Prajna) would require about 1000 years of cultivation, says Jin Yong.

Since no human being can possibly live 1,000 years, isn't this hypothetical 13th Level of Lung Jeung Bor Yeh Gung basically nothing but a pipe dream?

It's like saying that if I could run faster than light, I could travel through time...but since no human being in the real world can run faster than light, it's kind of moot to even make the point.

[Felix]

The 13th level of DEP (Dragon Elephant Prajna) would require about 1000 years of cultivation, says Jin Yong. No one in Jin Yong wuxia can ever hope to reach that level. The creator of DEP reached level 8 or 9, but fire deviated to death.

Huh, so where did the 13th stage come from? Are there people out there who will claim that Sweeper Monk can achieve this level 13?

That means GWM was able to even surpass the original inventor of this martial arts, impressive.

Anyhow, where did the level 13 come from then? Some "God' sent it down to Earth or something?

[Felix]

Since no human being can possibly live 1,000 years, isn't this hypothetical 13th Level of Lung Jeung Bor Yeh Gung basically nothing but a pipe dream?

It's like saying that if I could run faster than light, I could travel through time...but since no human being in the real world can run faster than light, it's kind of moot moot to even make the point.

If you travel faster than light, that means you can travel to the past, that means, most of your fights are over even before they begin? Is that the ultimate level of martial arts?

[sarakoth]

If you travel faster than light, that means you can travel to the past, that means, most of your fights are over even before they begin? Is that the ultimate level of martial arts?

Only the guy from the Wu Ji parody could run faster than light