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Thread: I need your input regarding the translations.

  1. #21
    Registered User JamesG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by overjoy71 View Post
    Mr. Wizard

    Martial Aunties do not have the same feels as females Martial Uncles does it? lol.... Honestly speaking you guys are doing a great job.
    Thanks. We've had some truly remarkable people involved in the ROCH / LOCH translations. Thanks to the 'King of Foxes', foxs_, and other great people, the LOCH translation has been completed at 'Warp Speed'. I'm proud to be part of it.

  2. #22
    Moderator Han Solo's Avatar
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    Re: foxs's latest translation- xian tian gong is usually translated as ?pre-heaven seraph.

    Han SOlo
    Wuxiapedia

    Quote Originally Posted by bliss
    I think they're probably at the same level as or one level below Ah Qing, which is about the level of a 2nd or 3rd generation Quan Zhen disciple.
    Troll Control

  3. #23
    Registered User JamesG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
    Re: foxs's latest translation- xian tian gong is usually translated as ?pre-heaven seraph.
    Han SOlo
    I did a little 'Googling' and discovered a 2004 SPCNET thread on this [Candide was much more serious then. "pre-heaven seraph" is a bit esoteric and a visit to the Chinese-Tools site sort of explains where foxs_ came up with his version. Could you live with 'heavenly inspired qigong'?
    The more I dig into it the more complex it becomes. After drifting through several websites dealing with the trigrams theory or qigong / neigong training, the meaning varies a fair amount depending on the word linkages. If xian tian are linked there's one meaning, and if the link is tian gong then there's a new meaning. Where are the ancient masters when you need them?
    Last edited by JamesG; 05-17-07 at 10:15 PM. Reason: More research

  4. #24
    Senior Member overjoy71's Avatar
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    Sorry guys I can't help until i see the chinese characters. I am assuming tian gong is equivalent to heavenly bodies or heavenly palace..

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    Quote Originally Posted by overjoy71 View Post
    Sorry guys I can't help until i see the chinese characters. I am assuming tian gong is equivalent to heavenly bodies or heavenly palace..
    If it helps: 先天功.

    In this context, I'm presuming xian tian to mean the initial form of the universe, also the beginning of heaven and earth.

  6. #26
    Senior Member overjoy71's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifian View Post
    If it helps: 先天功.

    In this context, I'm presuming xian tian to mean the initial form of the universe, also the beginning of heaven and earth.
    Thanks Pacifian and Mr. Wizard,

    The phrase "Xian tian" means inborn or innate I guess is the best way to describe it. But in terms of gong [achievement/merit].. to come up with an elegent term for it, hhmmmm...

    The word, "Xian" means former/first/early/in advance.. "Tian" obviously means sky/heaven.. My thoughts may be something like, "First-Heaven"?

  7. #27
    Registered User JamesG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by overjoy71 View Post
    Thanks Pacifian and Mr. Wizard,

    The phrase "Xian tian" means inborn or innate I guess is the best way to describe it. But in terms of gong [achievement/merit].. to come up with an elegant term for it, hhmmmm...

    The word, "Xian" means former/first/early/in advance.. "Tian" obviously means sky/heaven.. My thoughts may be something like, "First-Heaven"?
    Thanks for your efforts overjoy71
    Han Solo's word seraph in my large dictionary means 'to be eminent or noble' [the 'to burn' definition doesn't fit].
    I really want to come up with something suitable for the readers with no Chinese cultural knowledge and still gets the idea across without straying too far from the intent of the phrase. The phrase comes up many times so I need to think of something that won't get the 'purists' on my case.
    More ideas....................anyone?

  8. #28
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    Okay. I've just consulted my dictionary and here goes -- you guys pick the meaning you deem fit.

    First meaning: as I have stated earlier in my previous post in this thread.

    Second meaning: inborn or innate, as fellow poster overjoy has mentioned. Generally, it refers more to people's physical attributes.

    Third meaning is a toughie. This comes from the I Ching, so there's probably some connection between this meaning and the one in Xian Tian Gong, but I don't see it. It refers to how things are done before circumstances allow for it to occur, implying there's some form of foreseeing the future going on.

    Fourth meaning has some psychological roots to it and well ... the etymology dates back to the 17th/18th century, so this most likely wasn't what the skill meant.

  9. #29
    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifian View Post
    Third meaning is a toughie. This comes from the I Ching, so there's probably some connection between this meaning and the one in Xian Tian Gong, but I don't see it. It refers to how things are done before circumstances allow for it to occur, implying there's some form of foreseeing the future going on.
    That should be the one.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
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  10. #30
    Registered User JamesG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi View Post
    That should be the one.
    So it was sort of the gift of foreseeing the results of your actions before you take action. It seems sort of a mixed blessing, since circumstances may force an action that you foresee will be disastrous. A heavy burden for anyone.
    Thanks for your input HY.

  11. #31
    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesG View Post
    So it was sort of the gift of foreseeing the results of your actions before you take action. It seems sort of a mixed blessing, since circumstances may force an action that you foresee will be disastrous. A heavy burden for anyone.
    Thanks for your input HY.
    先天功 is --not the gift-- stated above.
    先天功 is a(n internal) skill --named after-- the gift, and by that token, --not-- necessarily giving the user (e.g. Wang Chongyang, Yideng, etc) any extraordinary gift of foresight beyond the normal logical and deductive process of the human mind.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
    Soon ... SOON!

  12. #32
    Registered User JamesG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi View Post
    先天功 is --not the gift-- stated above.
    先天功 is a(n internal) skill --named after-- the gift, and by that token, --not-- necessarily giving the user (e.g. Wang Chongyang, Yideng, etc) any extraordinary gift of foresight beyond the normal logical and deductive process of the human mind.
    Thanks, but I'm still spinning my wheels on this one. Here's
    some possibilities: 'virtuous heavenly palace', 'refined peaceful achievement' or 'inate merit'. I sort of like the first one, but will it fly?

  13. #33
    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesG View Post
    Thanks, but I'm still spinning my wheels on this one. Here's
    some possibilities: 'virtuous heavenly palace', 'refined peaceful achievement' or 'inate merit'. I sort of like the first one, but will it fly?
    The 功 used in 先天功 used in this context means "skill".
    The character for palace is 宫.
    Please relate the name 先天功 to the context, i.e. it is the name of a(n internal) skill, during translation.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
    Soon ... SOON!

  14. #34
    Registered User JamesG's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HuangYushi View Post
    The 功 used in 先天功 used in this context means "skill".
    The character for palace is 宫.
    Please relate the name 先天功 to the context, i.e. it is the name of a(n internal) skill, during translation.
    Sorry about the palace thing, I should have looked at the characters and not just the word definitions. 功 is the problem character in 先天功. Early Heaven Achievement doesn't quite get me excited.

    工 gōng work / worker / skill / profession /

    功 gōng merit / achievement / result / service

    I've sort of decided , after discussing it with foxs_, that the easiest option is to leave the pinyin 'xian tian gong' untranslated and explain in brackets that it's yet another internal energy cultivation technique.
    Last edited by JamesG; 05-23-07 at 08:18 PM. Reason: Additional thoughts

  15. #35
    Senior Member HuangYushi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesG View Post
    工 gōng work / worker / skill / profession /

    功 gōng merit / achievement / result / service
    Some multi-character pronouns just cannot be translated on a word-by-word basis. In such cases, meaningful, logical and grammatically-correct contextual translations would work better.
    Jin Yong's Ode to Gallantry [侠客行].
    Quote Originally Posted by atlantean0208
    what about SPT, I need my SPT fix ASAP, pretty pleaseeeee...
    Soon ... SOON!

  16. #36
    Registered User JamesG's Avatar
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    CFT Posted this in the Book 4 thread:
    "xian tian gong" is frequently translated as "Pre-Congenital Art" I think because it describes the cultivation of pre-congenital chi/qi. Traditional Chinese medicine splits chi/qi into 2 groupings: pre-birth (pre-congenital) and post-birth."

    The implication is that there is a form of internal energy that is present before birth. Innate in other words. WCY apparently showed Yi Deng how to access this innate form of internal energy.

    How about 'Prenatal Innate Internal Energy'?

  17. #37
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    Well, I think to translate those wuxia fiction is a great challenge. Because there are certain chinese terminology that even we native speakers can't give the exact meaning! (For example, words like "JiangHu","NeyLi","Dianxue","shaqi") It's very complicated. We can only judge by the closest meaning according to the image that is presenting on the screen. And wuxia fiction somtimes contains some chinese tradition or customs that other countries don't have. Speaking of pinyin, to add some footnotes will help the readers easily to understand the abstract meaning.

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Diego0405 View Post
    Well, I think to translate those wuxia fiction is a great challenge. Because there are certain chinese terminology that even we native speakers can't give the exact meaning! (For example, words like "JiangHu","NeyLi","Dianxue","shaqi") It's very complicated. We can only judge by the closest meaning according to the image that is presenting on the screen. And wuxia fiction somtimes contains some chinese tradition or customs that other countries don't have. Speaking of pinyin, to add some footnotes will help the readers easily to understand the abstract meaning.
    New member? Welcome to the forum.
    Have you visited the SPCNET Reading Room to check out our translations?

  19. #39
    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    When I read "xian tian gung" I get the impression that it's an ability so great that it's greater than the heavens. Kinda like, "before even heaven, this skill is".

    So something like "Transcelestial Internal Energy"?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChronoReverse View Post
    When I read "xian tian gung" I get the impression that it's an ability so great that it's greater than the heavens. Kinda like, "before even heaven, this skill is".

    So something like "Transcelestial Internal Energy"?
    How do the Chinese regard a child still in the womb? Is it linked to this pre-heaven concept?

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