Are you a fan of Guo Jing or Yeung Gor?

[SteveF]

BEFORE YOU READ ON:
1) Visit http://www.nevetsoft.com/nevetspath/test.html and determine your personality*
2) Determine whether you are more agreeable with Guo Jing or Yang Guo


* Disclaimer: I developed this. I'm not a professional psychologist. It may not be 100% correct. So, don't sue me if this leads you to have a distorted view of yourself. The MBTI test must be administered by a qualified personnel. Also, I have not wrote a description of the variants within the temperament groups (except the Rationals and some of the Artisans).


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This is not about who's martial arts is better (I put my money on YG). Instead of studying them, let's study us. Why some loves YG and can't stand GJ and vice versa (I'm in the YG camp ).

Coke vs. Pepsi
Man U vs. Liverpool
Disney vs. Warner Bros
IBM vs. Apple
Guo Jing vs. Yang Guo

While preference for the first 4 rivals have much to do with product differentiation, brand loyalty and wonders of marketing wizardry, GJ vs. YG only has JY's novel (and TV adaptations/comics/etc) to base upon. And unlike the first 4, the GJ vs. YG phenomena is about two human beings, not products.

My take is this. One theory of modern psychology, especially in the field of personality, as a result of the works by Carl Jung, Myers-Briggs, and David Keirsey, has categorised people under four main temperaments - Artisans (SP), Guardians (SJ), Rationals (NT), Idealists (NF).

Artisans and Guardians share the trait of having "concrete communication" (the S for Sensing factor), while Rationals and Idealists share the trait of "abstract communication" (the N for iNtuitive factor).

Artisans and Rationals share the trait of "utilitarian implementation" (don't know why, ask Keirsey), while Guardians and Idealists share the trait of "cooperative implementation".

With "communication" being more dominant than "implementation", therefore:
Artisans relate best to Guardians > Rationals > Idealists
Guardians relate best to Artisans > Idealists > Rationals
Rationals relate best to Idealists > Artisans > Guardians
Idealists relate best to Rationals > Guardians > Artisans

My observation is:
Guo Jing is absolutely an orthodox and stoical Guardian.
Yang Guo is most probably a heterodox and hedonistic Artisan.

Therefore:
Guardians will most probably support Guo Jing
Artisans will most probably support Yang Guo
Idealists, if forced to make a decision, may choose GJ over YG
Rationals, if forced to make a decision, may choose YG over GJ

Hence, check your personality type and compare this with your favourite hero. Now, psychology is a soft science and is not necessarily accurate ALL the time.

[PJ]

check your personality type

how to do this, again?

[SteveF]

Sorry dude, I've forgotten to include a test. I've written one myself as a hobby. Read my edited post above. Or take a more professional test. I recommend Keirsey's. http://www.keirsey.com (found this after writing the above post).

[Candide]

Artisans, Guardians, Rationals, Idealists.

Nice names. I think of myself as being all four, and I'd like to vote on all picking GJ.

[kidd]

This MBTI personality test seems to be all the hype now. I see it everywhere.

But I have to say, it's pretty accurate.

[dbx]

try socionics
http://www.socionics.com/

[dbx]

BEFORE YOU READ ON:
1) Visit http://www.nevetsoft.com/nevetspath/test.html and determine your personality*
2) Determine whether you are more agreeable with Guo Jing or Yang Guo


* Disclaimer: I developed this. I'm not a professional psychologist. It may not be 100% correct. So, don't sue me if this leads you to have a distorted view of yourself. The MBTI test must be administered by a qualified personnel. Also, I have not wrote a description of the variants within the temperament groups (except the Rationals and some of the Artisans).


------------------------

This is not about who's martial arts is better (I put my money on YG). Instead of studying them, let's study us. Why some loves YG and can't stand GJ and vice versa (I'm in the YG camp ).

Coke vs. Pepsi
Man U vs. Liverpool
Disney vs. Warner Bros
IBM vs. Apple
Guo Jing vs. Yang Guo

While preference for the first 4 rivals have much to do with product differentiation, brand loyalty and wonders of marketing wizardry, GJ vs. YG only has JY's novel (and TV adaptations/comics/etc) to base upon. And unlike the first 4, the GJ vs. YG phenomena is about two human beings, not products.

My take is this. One theory of modern psychology, especially in the field of personality, as a result of the works by Carl Jung, Myers-Briggs, and David Keirsey, has categorised people under four main temperaments - Artisans (SP), Guardians (SJ), Rationals (NT), Idealists (NF).

Artisans and Guardians share the trait of having "concrete communication" (the S for Sensing factor), while Rationals and Idealists share the trait of "abstract communication" (the N for iNtuitive factor).

Artisans and Rationals share the trait of "utilitarian implementation" (don't know why, ask Keirsey), while Guardians and Idealists share the trait of "cooperative implementation".

With "communication" being more dominant than "implementation", therefore:
Artisans relate best to Guardians > Rationals > Idealists
Guardians relate best to Artisans > Idealists > Rationals
Rationals relate best to Idealists > Artisans > Guardians
Idealists relate best to Rationals > Guardians > Artisans

My observation is:
Guo Jing is absolutely an orthodox and stoical Guardian.
Yang Guo is most probably a heterodox and hedonistic Artisan.

Therefore:
Guardians will most probably support Guo Jing
Artisans will most probably support Yang Guo
Idealists, if forced to make a decision, may choose GJ over YG
Rationals, if forced to make a decision, may choose YG over GJ

Hence, check your personality type and compare this with your favourite hero. Now, psychology is a soft science and is not necessarily accurate ALL the time.

Yang Guo is probably a rational actually. To me the defining characteristic of YG is that he is clever, probably too clever.

[SteveF]

dbx,

Yang Guo is probably a rational actually. To me the defining characteristic of YG is that he is clever, probably too clever.

"Cleverness" cannot be exclusively associated with Rationals alone. The defining characteristics of a Rational is abstract utilitarianism, specialising in strategic analysis. Each temperament has its own area of "cleverness", which Keirsey call "intelligence". I, however, prefer to call it "competence" because it is more readily measurable and manifested than "intelligence". They are:

Artisans - Tactical competence
Guardians - Logistical competence
Idealists - Diplomatic competence
Rationals - Strategic competence

I believe the overriding characteristics of Yang Guo was hedonism - which was why YG cannot live in Gumu forever. He must associate with the "hua hua se jie" (I'm useless in pinying). Rationals, by character, can sit alone in a room forever amused by his/her own thoughts. If left to their own devices, Rationals will entrench himself/herself into a room filled with books and working on their projects, coming out only for food and toiletries.

YG's ability to master martial arts quickly was mainly due to his tactical competence. His ability to fend off superior martial artists was due to his tactical resourcefulness, not strategic analysis.

[dbx]

dbx,
"Cleverness" cannot be exclusively associated with Rationals alone. The defining characteristics of a Rational is abstract utilitarianism, specialising in strategic analysis. Each temperament has its own area of "cleverness", which Keirsey call "intelligence". I, however, prefer to call it "competence" because it is more readily measurable and manifested than "intelligence". They are:

Artisans - Tactical competence
Guardians - Logistical competence
Idealists - Diplomatic competence
Rationals - Strategic competence

I believe the overriding characteristics of Yang Guo was hedonism - which was why YG cannot live in Gumu forever. He must associate with the "hua hua se jie" (I'm useless in pinying). Rationals, by character, can sit alone in a room forever amused by his/her own thoughts. If left to their own devices, Rationals will entrench himself/herself into a room filled with books and working on their projects, coming out only for food and toiletries.

YG's ability to master martial arts quickly was mainly due to his tactical competence. His ability to fend off superior martial artists was due to his tactical resourcefulness, not strategic analysis.

I think you have a very stodgie view of rationals. INTP and INTJ might sit in their cave for years.

In another post I put down that I think Yang Guo was a ENTP, there is a reason for this. Throughout the book he displayed a adeptness at a lateral-combinatory thinking. He learned from all sorts of masters and used all those styles and techniques to invent a new form. Also after having created this martial arts he had to use it in the world. Beyond that, clever is the definative term for an ENTP.

If you've studied the 8 subtypes, you can see various instances of extraverted intution, introverted thinking, extraverted feeling and introverted sensing at work.

Oh yea, just because Yang Guo didn't want to be in a cave all his life doesn't mean he's a hedonist. In the book, he really didn't go out of his way to indulge himself. He's too busy looking and waiting for his Gu Gu. And after he found his Gu Gu, he went and left to live in isolation with her. And in the begining of the book, he was perfectly comfortable living in his cave by himself. And later on living in a cave wth XLN. It's only when you take away the possibility of him leaving that cave does it become a problem. This is a very good ENTP indicator, as they are very perceptive of possibilities.

[SteveF]

I don't see where did Yang Guo displayed interest in strategy. He rely mostly on wits, quick thinking and reactions and tactics. Neither did he show much appreciation for abstract systems or theory. He didn't even fully realise the source of power of Sad Palms, his very own invention. And we don't even know whether it works as a comprehensive combat system.

You cannot classify someone as an ENTP simply because he invented something. ZBT invented Vacant Fist and L/R Technique. Was ZBT too a Rational? He was obviously an Artisan.

A martial art created by Rationals will invariably be well-thought out, with established principles and theory, and is complete. The most established Rational, in my opinion was C3F.

A Rational's specialty is in theory, not physical abilities. A Rational must first, or at least seek first to, understand before being able to do. An Artisan, usually with excellent physical coordination, will be able to pick up moves quickly even without knowing its theory. But YG had no interest in books and theories - he wanted to learn how to fight. He could observe movements and mimick them, even if he doesn't know the exact usage since he didn't know the theory.

Yang Guo's swordmanship was a product of tactical competence, something that ESTPs/ISTPs excel in.

I cannot accept the association of "clever" with ENTPs or Rationals in general. They are competent in strategy, theory, and all things abstract and systemic. But they will be in absolute trouble when it comes to logistical competency. Therefore, "cleverness" cannot be viewed narrowly. There are many areas that require different skill sets, different "cleverness".

True, Yang Guo is not H7G or ZBT when it comes to hedonism. But hedonism in the context of an ISTP, a crafter, is something that Yang Guo can definitely be comfortable with. Seeing that you are familiar with Jungian jargons, I will not go on to explain ISTPs.

[dbx]

I don't see where did Yang Guo displayed interest in strategy. He rely mostly on wits, quick thinking and reactions and tactics. Neither did he show much appreciation for abstract systems or theory. He didn't even fully realise the source of power of Sad Palms, his very own invention. And we don't even know whether it works as a comprehensive combat system.

You cannot classify someone as an ENTP simply because he invented something. ZBT invented Vacant Fist and L/R Technique. Was ZBT too a Rational? He was obviously an Artisan.

A martial art created by Rationals will invariably be well-thought out, with established principles and theory, and is complete. The most established Rational, in my opinion was C3F.

A Rational's specialty is in theory, not physical abilities. A Rational must first, or at least seek first to, understand before being able to do. An Artisan, usually with excellent physical coordination, will be able to pick up moves quickly even without knowing its theory. But YG had no interest in books and theories - he wanted to learn how to fight. He could observe movements and mimick them, even if he doesn't know the exact usage since he didn't know the theory.

Yang Guo's swordmanship was a product of tactical competence, something that ESTPs/ISTPs excel in.

I cannot accept the association of "clever" with ENTPs or Rationals in general. They are competent in strategy, theory, and all things abstract and systemic. But they will be in absolute trouble when it comes to logistical competency. Therefore, "cleverness" cannot be viewed narrowly. There are many areas that require different skill sets, different "cleverness".

True, Yang Guo is not H7G or ZBT when it comes to hedonism. But hedonism in the context of an ISTP, a crafter, is something that Yang Guo can definitely be comfortable with. Seeing that you are familiar with Jungian jargons, I will not go on to explain ISTPs.

I think you're confusing functional competency with personality. There are feelers who think they're thinkers and thinkers who think they're feelers The only true measure of personality type is gauge through how one reacts to problems.

Clever is a defining characteristic of ENTP, but not with rational. Improvision is a definative ENTP trait. Systems, theory while important to an ENTP is not primary, ENTP's are quite chaotic in how they behave, a function of extraverted intuition. Both ISTP and ENTP have intraverted thinking. Both ISTP and ENTP have extraverted feeling.
Also he never really mastered his earlier martial arts, he constantly learned more new and different forms of them. This is not a S trait more of a N trait.

What they differ is in Extraverted Intuition versus Intraverted Intuition and Intraverted Sensing and Extraverted sensing.

Extraverted Sensing is a strong trait of ISTP, which would mean that Yang Guo would be practical, organized, and deliberate. It just didn't seem to me that he is this way.

Also Yang Guo is a show off, another characteristic of ENTP.

Also since it's a novel character, the architype might not be consistant with modern psychology.

[Felix]

Considering how these two individuals are always compared to each other, it looks like the fandom for each person is split down the middle.

I was just wondering is that so? Are there any fans that either love them equally or hate them both?

Umm, to be fair, let's only compare the LOCH Guo Jing to the ROCH Yeung Gor.

[ghostdarTeal'c]

geee....i wonder who should i vote

by the way, i like the rhyme Yang Guo is so romantic, Guo Jing is so patriotic

[Ken Cheng]

I could have sworn we've done this poll before in one form or another.

In any case, I clearly do like Gwok Jing...not so much Yeung Gor, although Yeung Gor does have his moments. Yeung Gor's moments do shine, but they're punctuated by so many (to me) irritating quirks that I just can't call myself a big fan of his.

[ghostdarTeal'c]

I could have sworn we've done this poll before in one form or another.

it's always fun to compare the two.......i dont know how many times have i voted in such polls

[0-0-0]

hm, unique debate here.

i like both, but GJ better.

[Ken Cheng]

In some ways, Gwok Jing and Yeung Gor have very similar personalities, really. It's just that each of them picked different things to fixate upon.

Gwok Jing's fixation both helped and harmed people on a much larger scale than Yeung Gor's did. Everything Gwok Jing does or gets involved in is larger than life. Yeung Gor operates on a smaller, more intimate scale.

Ironically, however, Yeung Gor was the one who got the one history-changing shot in the entire Jin Yong canon (killing Mongke Khan).

[Bangs]

I like both but more on YG coz I have a lot in common with his personality.

[Ken Cheng]

By the way, anybody want to take any bets that within twenty-four hours, someone is going to troll this thread and initiate a full-fledged flame war?

Five will get you ten that it'll happen...

[PJ]

Ironically, however, Yeung Gor was the one who got the one history-changing shot in the entire Jin Yong canon (killing Mongke Khan).

What do you mean by "the one"? What about Qiao Feng's course-altering fate? Wei Xiaobao may have some course alterations as well, seeing how he spent a large amount of time with the emperor.