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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by warlock110 View Post
    earing better grades that he doesn't deserve, pull the average up, that's robbing.
    grade is not equal to knowledge... and needing a curve to pass the class = not good anyways

    but ok im done with this topic, dont want to make more enemies
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuGu View Post
    It's funny how people would take time to go through all that trouble when you could easily sit for an hour or so and study the material and earn the grade.
    i don't know how smart other people are, but i've never studied 1 hour and got a good grade. To get Bs or As it's probably gonna take days in days out of studying + 5-6 hours per class before midterm/test, if you don't study regularly everyday it'll take some no eating/bathing days before the midterm to make As or Bs. this is from my personal experience of 3 years in college. Those people who are getting under Cs are not doing anything, it's a habbit (speaking striaght from a lazy person), change the habbit or it'll never bring the grade up.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LuNaR View Post
    grade is not equal to knowledge... and needing a curve to pass the class = not good anyways

    but ok im done with this topic, dont want to make more enemies
    99.9% of my classes in my college is graded on a curve, you try taking one of their test on a 100 scale and pass with decent grade, props to you.... ever heard of 50/100 is an A? it's THAT hard, by no means these kids are stupid, average SAT 1250+ (old 1600 max score), weight GPA average for entry 4.04, it just depends on the school.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by LuNaR View Post
    grade is not equal to knowledge... and needing a curve to pass the class = not good anyways

    but ok im done with this topic, dont want to make more enemies
    you don't want grade = knowledge, that's fine, but the truth is you're robbing other people out of something that's their to give to your friend, is that right? gray area is when you're talking about human rights/abortions/gun control... this ain't one of them, sorry but there's no "gray area" in robbing.

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by warlock110 View Post
    i don't know how smart other people are, but i've never studied 1 hour and got a good grade. To get Bs or As it's probably gonna take days in days out of studying + 5-6 hours per class before midterm/test, if you don't study regularly everyday it'll take some no eating/bathing days before the midterm to make As or Bs. this is from my personal experience of 3 years in college. Those people who are getting under Cs are not doing anything, it's a habbit (speaking striaght from a lazy person), change the habbit or it'll never bring the grade up.
    LOL, I don't mean just one hour and that's it. I meant on a regular basis. Maybe 3 times a week when you have that extra time. If you do that on a regular basis you won't feel like you're trying to stuff your head with too much info at once. You study chapter by chapter, right? Yeah, you'd have to be a genius to study just once for an hour and get As.

    This is what I did. After I get out of class, I look over my notes. Yes, taking notes is a great method. Even if you think you won't look over them again, it's good to have something to go over when you get stuck. If I really don't understand it after reading my notes again, I'll ask another friend but most of the time I just go to the teacher. And they've always sat and explained it to me, even for 5 minutes. That 1:1 contact makes that great of a difference sometimes. You can't blame anyone if you yourself can't open your mouth to ask for help. And I do that for all the assignments I get. And for the big exams of course you have to take a longer time to go over all the chapters. It may sound like a lot of time that you're doing this but it's up to how you manage your time. A little here and there.

    Gosh, I feel like I'm lecturing my 18 year old brother. Sorry for such a long post.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by GuGu View Post
    LOL, I don't mean just one hour and that's it. I meant on a regular basis. Maybe 3 times a week when you have that extra time. If you do that on a regular basis you won't feel like you're trying to stuff your head with too much info at once. You study chapter by chapter, right? Yeah, you'd have to be a genius to study just once for an hour and get As.

    This is what I did. After I get out of class, I look over my notes. Yes, taking notes is a great method. Even if you think you won't look over them again, it's good to have something to go over when you get stuck. If I really don't understand it after reading my notes again, I'll ask another friend but most of the time I just go to the teacher. And they've always sat and explained it to me, even for 5 minutes. That 1:1 contact makes that great of a difference sometimes. You can't blame anyone if you yourself can't open your mouth to ask for help. And I do that for all the assignments I get. And for the big exams of course you have to take a longer time to go over all the chapters. It may sound like a lot of time that you're doing this but it's up to how you manage your time. A little here and there.

    Gosh, I feel like I'm lecturing my 18 year old brother. Sorry for such a long post.

    yeah, i can't do that , too lazy, i just try to study like 6-7 hours before midterms, i have sort of above average skill in memorizing stuff / understanding stuff, i'm so embarass when i fill out evaluation and they ask me how much time i spent for the class lol, the lowest choice on the sheet is still over what i normally spent, my grades are not good, just passing (Cs and Bs)... not sure where people find the drive to study everyday, if i have free time i just sleep. I have never found anyone as efficient as me when it comes to cramping, literally i have been to classes that's relatively hard (Calculus classes, computer science, chem ect...), never showed up to class, never did homework, just start reading the text book at the last min, jump in and pass the class with a C, now i'm starting to regret because those grades really sucks for GPA counting, but for the amount of work i put in, i do feel pretty good about it. Not that i would advice anyone to do the same, but just to show, in order to get good grade, you have to be consistant in studying and put some effort into it.

    PS: you can already tell, i will never be a doctor, i do feel that if the thing that i don't like to do but i HAVE to do it, i'll put the minimal amount of effort just to complete it, that might be a good or a bad thing (depending your own points of view), but i think that it's very unnatural to go against your will and study like an idiot when you don't even like it, but at the end if you absolutely have to do it, then do "pass", because failure just shows the inability to complete the task.
    Last edited by warlock110; 05-19-07 at 05:16 AM.

  7. #47
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    Robbing is essentially about taking something away from others forcefully.

    Quote Originally Posted by warlock110 View Post
    you don't want grade = knowledge, that's fine
    Not that I want to be nitpicky, but you've lost me when you tried to equtae the two together. Granted, they may not be poles apart, but surely it's just incorrect to liken one of them to the other.

    Forget it. It is pointless continuing this silly argument on anologies. I was feeling bored earlier

    i do feel that if the thing that i don't like to do but i HAVE to do it, i'll put the minimal amount of effort just to complete it, that might be a good or a bad thing (depending your own points of view), but i think that it's very unnatural to go against your will and study like an idiot when you don't even like it, but at the end if you absolutely have to do it, then do "pass", because failure just shows the inability to complete the task.
    When you enter the working society in the future, you will realise almost everything you do is not something you will like to do. Maybe for the first few years you like your job very much, but eventually you will lose your interest in it and so the job which you are maybe going to face for the rest of your life is something you HAVE to do, and not something you want to do.

    Your attitude is pretty bad, and I doubt it is just my opinion that it is so. You don't have to work like an idiot for things you have little interest in, or need to go an extra mile for things if you don't have the heart to. But when tasks are entrusted to you, they are not meant for you to take them lightly. Not all tasks are there to go according to your will; it is up to you to develop the right mindset and the right attitude.

    What you're doing now is pointless, really. Studying for the sake of passing -- or to show your capability in completing tasks -- will lead to nowhere. Whatever knowledge you're hastily taking in before the examinations will prove only useful during the exams, because you are bound to forget these knowledge sooner or later. Frankly speaking, I see a rather tough life ahead of you as you step into the working society.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by warlock110 View Post
    yeah, i can't do that , too lazy, i just try to study like 6-7 hours before midterms, i have sort of above average skill in memorizing stuff / understanding stuff, i'm so embarass when i fill out evaluation and they ask me how much time i spent for the class lol, the lowest choice on the sheet is still over what i normally spent, my grades are not good, just passing (Cs and Bs)... not sure where people find the drive to study everyday, if i have free time i just sleep. I have never found anyone as efficient as me when it comes to cramping, literally i have been to classes that's relatively hard (Calculus classes, computer science, chem ect...), never showed up to class, never did homework, just start reading the text book at the last min, jump in and pass the class with a C, now i'm starting to regret because those grades really sucks for GPA counting, but for the amount of work i put in, i do feel pretty good about it. Not that i would advice anyone to do the same, but just to show, in order to get good grade, you have to be consistant in studying and put some effort into it.

    PS: you can already tell, i will never be a doctor, i do feel that if the thing that i don't like to do but i HAVE to do it, i'll put the minimal amount of effort just to complete it, that might be a good or a bad thing (depending your own points of view), but i think that it's very unnatural to go against your will and study like an idiot when you don't even like it, but at the end if you absolutely have to do it, then do "pass", because failure just shows the inability to complete the task.

    LOL, yeah I did that my first two years in high school. Then my junior year we were given the opportunity to set our own schedule so we had meetings with counselors to go over what we have completed in our first two years and our GPA. Seriously, I've never heard of 'GPA' before that day. When I saw my GPA I was horrified! So I took a class on time management and studying skills and I figured out how to study. 20 minutes here, 30 minutes there, at first it was hard to get used to but after the end of first semester I saw the difference in my grades and my GPA went up. I just kept it up and pretty soon I didn't need to remind myself. I automatically opened my textbook when I was laying around doing nothing.

    And of course as senior year came around all those college fairs got me so scared that I could never get into a good college and I tried harder. And I was so glad I took that time management and studying skills class, because it helped me a lot in college. Yeah, you start to feel the pressure when you're actually paying for school out of your own pocket. I start to think of how good I had it when I was in high school, I didn't have to worry about paying for my classes or buying textbooks! Now I have to HAVE money to go to school. For those kids still in high school please take in as much as you can while it's free, cause you'll have to pay for it in a few years.

    This is making me depressed! School just ended and I'm already worrying about saving money to pay for fall semester!

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifian View Post
    Robbing is essentially about taking something away from others forcefully.


    Not that I want to be nitpicky, but you've lost me when you tried to equtae the two together. Granted, they may not be poles apart, but surely it's just incorrect to liken one of them to the other.

    Forget it. It is pointless continuing this silly argument on anologies. I was feeling bored earlier


    When you enter the working society in the future, you will realise almost everything you do is not something you will like to do. Maybe for the first few years you like your job very much, but eventually you will lose your interest in it and so the job which you are maybe going to face for the rest of your life is something you HAVE to do, and not something you want to do.

    Your attitude is pretty bad, and I doubt it is just my opinion that it is so. You don't have to work like an idiot for things you have little interest in, or need to go an extra mile for things if you don't have the heart to. But when tasks are entrusted to you, they are not meant for you to take them lightly. Not all tasks are there to go according to your will; it is up to you to develop the right mindset and the right attitude.

    What you're doing now is pointless, really. Studying for the sake of passing -- or to show your capability in completing tasks -- will lead to nowhere. Whatever knowledge you're hastily taking in before the examinations will prove only useful during the exams, because you are bound to forget these knowledge sooner or later. Frankly speaking, I see a rather tough life ahead of you as you step into the working society.
    your definition of robbing, look at the situation again, does it classify?

    and i believe in myself enough to do that, and i've always been a sole believer in results, as long as i can get the results, the process is only a minor thing, I refuse to work 2-3 hours a day outside of class because i feel that's overworking. This might sound too cheesy, but i believe that in life, you don't live that long, things, accidents happen all the time, you live how you like (doesn't mean that you shoot up drugs or rob banks) but forcing yourself to devote to something you don't like is more or less torturing yourself. Where does it all end?

    GuGu still in college? lol, yeah the tuition is a lot, costing me about 20K a year, it's horrible, everyone wanna get out fast because they charge alot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by warlock110 View Post
    your definition of robbing, look at the situation again, does it classify?
    If you read my post, you'll understand what I'm trying to say is this: Knowledge is not grades and grades are not knowledge. I don't dispute your point of whether others' grades get snatched away by one particular student's performance which effectively pulled up the average -- I understand how moderation works myself, although the system here is used much differently, and usually would not get affected by any one particular student (we look at general performance; the moderation for the various grades changes by the year).

    and i've always been a sole believer in results, as long as i can get the results, the process is only a minor thing
    It's your attitude which is most worrying.

    I refuse to work 2-3 hours a day outside of class because i feel that's overworking.
    That's overworking?

    I refuse to comment any further on that. If you think that's overworking ... fine. But surely you can do better than to swot like mad only as your examinations draw nearer, while leaving the majority of your time doing stuff which you like.

    This might sound too cheesy, but i believe that in life, you don't live that long, things, accidents happen all the time, you live how you like (doesn't mean that you shoot up drugs or rob banks) but forcing yourself to devote to something you don't like is more or less torturing yourself. Where does it all end?
    As I've said earlier, I am *not* telling you to study, study, study till there's no end.

    What I'm trying to say, however, is that face it: you don't get everything going your way; you get stuff hurled right into your face whether you like it or not -- that's life. You don't live to enjoy. And I make it clear first (lest you jump to conclusions) that I'm not saying you should live to suffer. Striking a balance between the two is crucial. Just because you don't like doing something but have to do it doesn't give you a reason to treat it lightly. Of course, you need not go over the limit over things you have absolutely no inclination to do. That's what you truly call torture.

    When tasks are entrusted to you, you can complain, you can grumble, but please perform the task conscientiously. If you are swamped by dozens of undesirable things, dealing with them in a slipshod manner is merely a form of escapism, albeit much better than treating the task as if it doesn't exist. It's your job to actively engage your work (as much as you can; I know there's a limit) and change your mindset about the matter.

    I believe I'm safe to generalise for once: everyone, or almost everyone (for safety's sake, I decided to add the word 'almost'), wants to live a life full of enjoyment. Did they get it in the end? No. Did they treat stuff they do not like to do like dirt (or whatever you are treating your work)? No. The words 'forcing' and 'torture' are subjective: it's up to you whether your work is torturous or not, and that whether you are 'forcing' yourself to do it, or if you could do it in a more pleasant way -- it's all in the perspective. You want to view it as something that goes on endlessly, monotonously, be my guest. But when you don't put in effort into what you're supposed to do, that's a lack of personal responsibility.

    Okay. I guess I've said more than I should here.
    Last edited by Pacifian; 05-20-07 at 10:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifian View Post
    If you read my post, you'll understand what I'm trying to say is this: Knowledge is not grades and grades are not knowledge. I don't dispute your point of whether others' grades get snatched away by one particular student's performance which effectively pulled up the average -- I understand how moderation works myself, although the system here is used much differently, and usually would not get affected by any one particular student (we look at general performance; the moderation for the various grades changes by the year).


    It's your attitude which is most worrying.


    That's overworking?

    I refuse to comment any further on that. If you think that's overworking ... fine. But surely you can do better than to swot like mad only as your examinations draw nearer, while leaving the majority of your time doing stuff which you like.


    As I've said earlier, I am *not* telling you to study, study, study till there's no end.

    What I'm trying to say, however, is that face it: you don't get everything going your way; you get stuff hurled right into your face whether you like it or not -- that's life. You don't live to enjoy. And I make it clear first (lest you jump to conclusions) that I'm not saying you should live to suffer. Striking a balance between the two is crucial. Just because you don't like doing something but have to do it doesn't give you a reason to treat it lightly. Of course, you need not go over the limit over things you have absolutely no inclination to do. That's what you truly call torture.

    When tasks are entrusted to you, you can complain, you can grumble, but please perform the task conscientiously. If you are swamped by dozens of undesirable things, dealing with them in a slipshod manner is merely a form of escapism, albeit much better than treating the task as if it doesn't exist. It's your job to actively engage your work (as much as you can; I know there's a limit) and change your mindset about the matter.

    I believe I'm safe to generalise for once: everyone, or almost everyone (for safety's sake, I decided to add the word 'almost'), wants to live a life full of enjoyment. Did they get it in the end? No. Did they treat stuff they do not like to do like dirt (or whatever you are treating your work)? No. The words 'forcing' and 'torture' are subjective: it's up to you whether your work is torturous or not, and that whether you are 'forcing' yourself to do it, or if you could do it in a more pleasant way -- it's all in the perspective. You want to view it as something that goes on endlessly, monotonously, be my guest. But when you don't put in effort into what you're supposed to do, that's a lack of personal responsibility.

    Okay. I guess I've said more than I should here.

    1) i'm not sure if i'm able to defend my case in term of "generalization" but statistically, if you have a group of data, you take out 1 low score and put in a higher one, does the average change alot? maybe, maybe not, depending on how big the data is, but does it change? absolutely it changes, the median might not change but the mean does... and there's my point. You can go around the loop and say, well 1 score out of 1 billion ain't gonna matter, well maybe it doesn't in terms of how it effect the situation, but on technical level it does. Put it straight, if cheating doesn't harm anyone then you can cheat? you're contradicting yourself quite a bit.

    2) finding the balance? is it that easy? remember this, college isn't design so that you can get As and Bs by balancing, it's more like overworking to get those As and Bs, it just who ever put in more time to studying get the high grade. I'll give a clear example, classes grade are not dependent on your grade but on your peers, that means roughly speaking from top to bottom you have A = 15% B = 15 C = 30%, 40% Ds and Fs... so where does that put you if you're at the "balance" point?

    If studying is "pleasant" i guess everyone would be getting As, fact of the matter is, it's not. You're telling things that's not normal, I do understand that there are certain people that love studying and tries hard to get the As (as stated above about 15% of the people in the class), i'm just not one of them because i feel that putting time into studying is like robotic work, who can't do that? It's just different type of people do different things, can't say that one is better than the other one, you study alot = better chance of getting a better job, more money.. ect.. ect... nothing wrong with that, i'm just more layback

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    Quote Originally Posted by warlock110
    you're contradicting yourself quite a bit
    Pffft. Somebody just cannot see my point before rushing straight to the reply button..

    Quote Originally Posted by warlock110
    1) i'm not sure if i'm able to defend my case in term of "generalization" but statistically, if you have a group of data, you take out 1 low score and put in a higher one, does the average change alot? maybe, maybe not, depending on how big the data is, but does it change? absolutely it changes, the median might not change but the mean does... and there's my point. You can go around the loop and say, well 1 score out of 1 billion ain't gonna matter, well maybe it doesn't in terms of how it effect the situation, but on technical level it does. .
    Warlock, I said I do *NOT* (need me to add any more emphases?) dispute the way it robs grades because your moderation system differs from mine. Mine here doesn't focus too much on a curve or on the average. Our percentile system varies by the year, say, for year 2005, 80 students get A, while for year 2006, 86 students get the grade. We look at marks and, for some parts of it, the paper itself which could have different difficulty levels. Percentile plays a rather small part as compared against other factors weighed in.

    What I'm arguing is this: there's no such thing as robbing knowledge. Even if there is, it wouldn't be the case as you have stated.

    I'm repeating for the final time. I do NOT dispute whether the grades of people get affected by one particular student, because this possibly holds true in your school. Mine does too, to a much lesser extent.

    Quote Originally Posted by warlock110
    Put it straight, if cheating doesn't harm anyone then you can cheat?
    And since when have I supported the idea of cheating? Find it please, if you can.

    I sense some selective reading here, when I have obviously said something similar to this statement of yours long before you have posted this. Here it is:

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifian
    Now where's the logic? Just because there are people who cheat means that you have the right to do the same?
    You are no representative of the 'no cheating' notion. Merely because I am against you on some ideas here doesn't mean I support 'cheating'. Get your facts right.

    Quote Originally Posted by warlock110
    finding the balance? is it that easy? remember this, college isn't design so that you can get As and Bs by balancing, it's more like overworking to get those As and Bs, it just who ever put in more time to studying get the high grade.
    First off, I've been to college before, thank you very much.

    Next point: You haven't got my picture when I spoke about balance, have you? What I mean by balancing does not mean you should do other enjoyable stuff and studying hard at the same time. If you read my post carefully, I was saying that you should try to make your work appear enjoyable. Sounds impossible, huh? Definitely, when you have spent your time whining about how torturous the process of studying is, and that how you have wasted your life away if you had spent your life on the "torture" we all know full well as studying ...

    Earlier, I specifically told you your attitude is wrong, not much on the process or the results. If you can do well, good for you. If you can't, well ... you did try. But no, you refused to try. As I have said earlier, some words you used are subjective. For instance, in this particular part I've quoted from you, the word is "overworking". Undoubtedly, there are concrete black and white areas where overworking is concerned -- seventy-hours of working in some extreme cases. But take your studies in this case, you called studying two to three hours a day "overworking". Now where's the slightest tinge of a positive attitude towards trying (at least) to make your studying more palatable?

    My third point here would be, once again, on your constant idea of "overworking". You have been complaining many times that you wouldn't want to "overwork" yourself. But have you even reached the "ideal" working stage? No, I don't call last minute swotting a satisfactory level of working.

    Quote Originally Posted by warlock110
    I'll give a clear example, classes grade are not dependent on your grade but on your peers, that means roughly speaking from top to bottom you have A = 15% B = 15 C = 30%, 40% Ds and Fs... so where does that put you if you're at the "balance" point?
    How many times do you want me to mention our grading systems vary from each other's?

    Quote Originally Posted by warlock110
    If studying is "pleasant" i guess everyone would be getting As, fact of the matter is, it's not.
    That's where attitude and mindset come in. Constantly telling yourself studying isn't pleasant and refusing to find another way about the matter is going to work ... as if.

    Quote Originally Posted by warlock110
    You're telling things that's not normal, I do understand that there are certain people that love studying and tries hard to get the As (as stated above about 15% of the people in the class), i'm just not one of them because i feel that putting time into studying is like robotic work, who can't do that?
    I never told you to love studying and embrace it in your arms. I have never intended to romanticise studying, nor did I even instructed you to. If studying's not for you, do at least try and put in some effort, and by some I do not mean just last minute swotting, because that's what you call little effort.

    You tend to look at polar opposites, huh? Either you should love studying or you simply let go and slack. There's a reason why I even argued with you about this. If you were in the centre of this (meaning you do not love studying but didn't slack much either) I needn't have written so much in this one humongous post, but you were evidently at the far end of it (guess where?)

    To illustrate my point more clearly, I shall bring out one excerpt from a previous post of yours:

    Quote Originally Posted by warlock110
    if i have free time i just sleep. I have never found anyone as efficient as me when it comes to cramping, literally i have been to classes that's relatively hard (Calculus classes, computer science, chem ect...), never showed up to class, never did homework, just start reading the text book at the last min, jump in and pass the class with a C,
    Let's not even look at people who placed in unspeakable effort into their studies. Don't even talk about studying two to three hours a day. Just look at the case above, and tell me if that is a satisfactory attitude -- be it in your studies or anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by warlock110
    It's just different type of people do different things, can't say that one is better than the other one, you study alot = better chance of getting a better job, more money.. ect.. ect... nothing wrong with that, i'm just more layback
    The word "layback" in this context -- specifically the way you're acting -- is pretty much poor attitude in my dictionary.

    I can also say different people have different attitudes and principles -- which at some level, can be judged by "good" or "bad".

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    there's no point in arguing, warlock and pacifican. if you seriously read each other's arguments and language usage, you'll realize that you two are in different leagues when it comes learning ideals, argument skills, and writing skills.

    simply put, it's blatant in your little debate which person went to school for knowledge and which person was focused on good grades only.
    nytimes: Every hr you have 10 minutes where you’re not doing anything productive at work, & you can’t look at porn. So you make a comment & fulfill this desire to show yourself off as a smarty-pants.

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    lmao omfg O_o'

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