Do You Think Hong Kong Artist Can Sing?

[kidd]

Agree with BlueBelle. They are huge in Chinese entertainment circle. People keep tabs of the chinese entertainment circle will have heard of them.

[0-0-0]

Are they popular?

Most of them are fairly popular and i recognise all the artists (although i didn't necessarily know their nationality)

Most of the HK singers (and I am NOT making this up. I read this in the Chinese newspapers) do not know how to read music sheets, and require someone to sing the song for them once, then they repeat.

They can't read sheet music? Are you kidding?

[Canuck21]

They can't read sheet music? Are you kidding?

I don't think that knowing to read sheet music is a necessity. Many bands started with minimal music knowledge. I know that my favourite band barely knew how to play their instruments at the beginning and got better as they went along. Punk bands are known for being crap musicians. Mind you it depends on the music genre. Do you think rappers know how to read music? I think not. Then again, rapping is not singing and the music is often samplers.

[0-0-0]

I don't think that knowing to read sheet music is a necessity. Many bands started with minimal music knowledge. I know that my favourite band barely knew how to play their instruments at the beginning and got better as they went along. Punk bands are known for being crap musicians. Mind you it depends on the music genre. Do you think rappers know how to read music? I think not. Then again, rapping is not singing and the music is often samplers.

rapping is not singing.

learning to read sheet music is compulsory education in australia

[kidd]

rapping is not singing.

learning to read sheet music is compulsory education in australia

I know where is CDEFGAB, I know which symbol stands for semibreve,crotchet, minim, flat, sharp, etc. If u ask me to play out the tune according to the sheet music, I can do it. But, if u ask me to hum the tune out just looking at the sheet music, I can't.

So, does this mean I can read music sheet or cannot read music sheet?

Music is also a compulsary subject in our primary school education system, but we only learn very basic stuff back then.

[0-0-0]

I know where is CDEFGAB, I know which symbol stands for semibreve,crotchet, minim, flat, sharp, etc. If u ask me to play out the tune according to the sheet music, I can do it. But, if u ask me to hum the tune out just look at the sheet music, I can't.

So, does this mean I can read sheet or cannot read sheet?

Music is also a compulsary subject in our primary school education system, but we only learn very basic stuff back then.

being able to read sheet music just means that you can tell what notes are on the sheet. Sight singing is a completely different matter.

[girllikeme]

They can't read sheet music? Are you kidding?

Not kidding. I'm amazed they have the courage to call themselves a singer even though they can't read sheet music.

[girllikeme]

being able to read sheet music just means that you can tell what notes are on the sheet. Sight singing is a completely different matter.

Yes, it is different, but to label yourself as a singer you must be able to sight read as well. Think about people who can even write their own music. We don't expect everyone to have that gift but you should at least be able to sight read.

[Canuck21]

rapping is not singing.

I would appreciate it if you could read my post in its entirety before commenting.

I don't think that knowing to read sheet music is a necessity. Many bands started with minimal music knowledge. I know that my favourite band barely knew how to play their instruments at the beginning and got better as they went along. Punk bands are known for being crap musicians. Mind you it depends on the music genre. Do you think rappers know how to read music? I think not. Then again, rapping is not singing and the music is often samplers.

learning to read sheet music is compulsory education in australia

Yeah and? Many can still create a whole song from scratch without knowing how to read sheet music. Music is more than just a technical ability, it is an expression medium that can be executed without technical knowledge.

[0-0-0]

Yeah and? Many can still create a whole song from scratch without knowing how to read sheet music. Music is more than just a technical ability, it is an expression medium that can be executed without technical knowledge.

I think people are completely wrong in thinking that with no technical knowledge, it's simple to create a song. Yes, i agree that it's a medium for expression and some people can stumble through and put something together without having a clue what it really means, but this is uncommon and i think that it's only ok at an amateur level. Surely a professional in the industry would be able to put in the effort to learn how to read sheet music since they're getting paid $xxmillion to sing it. Or I guess they have better things to do, like spending the $xxmillion.

[girllikeme]

Yeah and? Many can still create a whole song from scratch without knowing how to read sheet music. Music is more than just a technical ability, it is an expression medium that can be executed without technical knowledge.

Sorry, but that I disagree with that.

You can't just write a song; there ARE rules to songs in theory; for instance cadences; there are perfect and imperfect cadences, as well as specific rules for each and everyone. There are also beats in a bar; you cant have a dotted crotchet in a 4/4 bar when playing. There are so MANY rules to a song.

[0-0-0]

Sorry, but that I disagree with that.

You can't just write a song; there ARE rules to songs in theory; for instance cadences; there are perfect and imperfect cadences, as well as specific rules for each and everyone. There are also beats in a bar; you cant have a dotted crotchet in a 4/4 bar when playing. There are so MANY rules to a song.

LOL, i bet you had to do AMEB musicianship/theory exams as well. LOL. And then identifying cadences in my practical exam- oh gosh i was really bad at that. Singing melodies was really bad as well, because i have a really short memory, so i kept forgetting what the melody was


actually, on another note, 20th century music is often atonal, has no consistent rhythm, switches time signatures etc. But they're not much good for pop music.

[Ken Cheng]

Sorry, but that I disagree with that.

You can't just write a song; there ARE rules to songs in theory; for instance cadences; there are perfect and imperfect cadences, as well as specific rules for each and everyone. There are also beats in a bar; you cant have a dotted crotchet in a 4/4 bar when playing. There are so MANY rules to a song.

John Lennon and Paul McCartney are among the most accomplished songwriters of the 20th Century.

Number of formal musical lessons the two Beatles had in their lifetime: 0. Zip. Nada.

To this day, Paul McCartney cannot read or write musical notation; this is the man who wrote "Yesterday," "Hey Jude," "Eleanor Rigby," and "Let It Be," among dozens of other standards.

A music critic once praised the Beatles' compositions by mentioning how one of their songs had "Aeolian cadences" similar to those in Gustav Mahler's "Song of the Earth." To that, Lennon laughed and replied that they were just "chords like any other chords." Lennon thought "Aeolian cadences" were exotic birds.

[pemberly]

I think people are completely wrong in thinking that with no technical knowledge, it's simple to create a song. Yes, i agree that it's a medium for expression and some people can stumble through and put something together without having a clue what it really means, but this is uncommon and i think that it's only ok at an amateur level. Surely a professional in the industry would be able to put in the effort to learn how to read sheet music since they're getting paid $xxmillion to sing it. Or I guess they have better things to do, like spending the $xxmillion.

explain stevie wonder.

[0-0-0]

explain stevie wonder.

did you read the message?

I think people are completely wrong in thinking that with no technical knowledge, it's simple to create a song. Yes, i agree that it's a medium for expression and some people can stumble through and put something together without having a clue what it really means, but this is uncommon and i think that it's only ok at an amateur level. Surely a professional in the industry would be able to put in the effort to learn how to read sheet music since they're getting paid $xxmillion to sing it. Or I guess they have better things to do, like spending the $xxmillion.

[pemberly]

did you read the message?

yeah, you said stevie wonder is one of those rare people who "stumble through."

[Canuck21]

Sorry, but that I disagree with that.

You can't just write a song; there ARE rules to songs in theory; for instance cadences; there are perfect and imperfect cadences, as well as specific rules for each and everyone. There are also beats in a bar; you cant have a dotted crotchet in a 4/4 bar when playing. There are so MANY rules to a song.

You gals are way too technical. If all artists were like that, we'd only get unoriginal tunes forever and ever. Come on now, not everyone is classically trained in the popular music industry, not even the best of them.

Let me tell you about the band(s) Joy Division/New Order. I'm taking them as an example because I know them best. I've read three books about them so I kind of have an idea of their music abilities and their songwriting process. Joy Division comprised of vocalist and lyricist Ian Curtis, guitarist and keyboardist Bernard Sumner, bassist Peter Hook and drummer Stephen Morris. The only person that took some courses was the drummer; he was good on drums since day one. The guitarist and bassist were absolutely clueless. Sumner and Hook attended a Sex Pistols show at the Manchester Lesser Free Trade Hall on 4 June 1976 and that show would change their life forever. If you've never heard of the Sex Pistols, they're THE iconic punk band. Ian Curtis went to the second showing of the Sex Pistols and was also changed by it. What was so amazing about the Sex Pistols that blew these lads away? The energy and the realization that the Sex Pistols were crap musicians. They realized that you didn't have to be good musicians to have an impact. Inspired by the performance, Sumner bought a guitar and Hook a bass. They learned their instruments by themselves from scratch and within a few months formed a band with Ian Curtis and Stephen Morris joining them. In May 1977, they played their first gig and had their first EP in June 1978.

Clueless as they were, they were nonetheless able to write the lyrics and compose the music. For their studio albums, they had a producer, but other than that, they did everything by themselves. While composing, Mozart would write sheet music, but these guys were not classically trained so there was nothing as sheet music. It was by jamming that they got their melodies. They either go by memory or they probably demo taped. So yeah, you can say goodbye to cadences and rules. There are no such things in some popular music and especially not with punk, it's all by instinct and creativity, no limits necessary.

The song "Love Will Tear Us Apart" is the only and last music video from the band when they were all together. Take a look at it and notice the keyboardist's fingers are misplaced; he's using the wrong fingers and placement for the keys. It shows that these guys go by sound and not by notes. I bet that YOU know more about music notes than they did. Yet who created the song? People with guts and creativity, not necessarily people with music knowledge.

After the death of lead singer Ian Curtis, the surviving members formed New Order and Morris' girlfriend Gillian Gilbert joined the band as a guitarist and keyboardist to make it a four-piece. Again, Gilbert was another clueless musician. At the beginning, she had to put stickers on the keyboards to know which key notes to press. She used to be a two-finger keyboardist. Yet, she too contributed to the music composition.

So yeah, IMO, there's no need to know how to read sheet music. It's whether the singer can sing and have a good voice or whether the artist is creative and have a certain knowledge of instrument playing, but the sheet music itself is not a necessity. You'd be surprise how many great artists don't know how to read sheet music.

[Canuck21]

Oh and when I say classically trained, I don't mean in the classical music way, but as in trained to read notes in the classical way.

[kidd]

Wow. For people who have no formal musical training, these guys are amazing. I guess it's whether you have the talent or not that counts.

[0-0-0]

i talked my way away from the point i originally made.

anyway, yes, i agree that some people are naturally talented, but not everyone is so and certainly the majority of artists (99%) are not like that.

My point about learning to read sheet music is that even if you didn't know how to read it before, surely being part of the music industry, it wouldn't hurt to learn?


the situation that girllikeme and i were discussing is the following:

Ken Cheng says: hey, i wrote a song for you to sing 0-0-0.
0-0-0: great, i'm a pop singer who doesn't know how to read sheet music. Luckily the company employers someone to sing out the notes for me. GIRLLIKEME!!!
girllikeme: repeat after me: lalalala
0-0-0: lalalalala
girllikeme: no, it's lalala
0-0-0: (imitates) lalala
Ken Cheng: great, let's start recording in the studio.


I think that is just horrifying, that singers imitate others as opposed to singing their own songs.