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Thread: ZBT feelings on the HYS vs 7 QZ feud...

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    Default ZBT feelings on the HYS vs 7 QZ feud...

    I was just wondering where ZBT stood during the feud between HYS and 7 (then 6) QZ disciples?

    Did he not care at all that the (3rd one I believe) disciple died at the hands of HYS? Being a QZ member himself, I found it weird he really did not have any reaction.

    Is ZBT an unorthodox martial arts uncle towards the QZ disciples? Central Mischief himself being the martial arts brother of WCY, it seems Central Mischief does not really fit the bill of being a taoist. So is he part of QZ just by name?

    WCY, being the originator of QZ, does that mean then perhaps ZBT is just the martial arts brother of WCY, but he really is not a part of QZ, yet the 7 QZ disciples still refer to ZBT as martial arts uncle?

    If HYS killed an official beggar or one of the 4 Dali protector, I would think H7G and 1D would intervene.

    How come ZBT did not do anything?

    When did the feud between HYS and QZ resolved? Was it ever resolved? It looks by the time of ROCH, QZ people did not really have any negative thoughts towards HYS anymore?

    Thoughts please?

    BTW, like Ken Cheng, most of this observation was from LOCH82, so if ZBT did react in a way in the novel, then my mistake.

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    OYF was the one to kill the third disciple, not HYS. I think that after the initial heat of the moment, they realized who the true murderer was. Their only gripe was with HYS was him killing ZBT, but once they found out he was alive, they had no reason to attack anymore.

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Chow Bak Tung couldn't take anything too seriously (and he got worse and worse at it the older he got). Even that whole Ying Goo/South Emperor affair, which was the most serious trouble he ever got into in his whole life, became something of a joke to him as the years passed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Chow Bak Tung couldn't take anything too seriously (and he got worse and worse at it the older he got). Even that whole Ying Goo/South Emperor affair, which was the most serious trouble he ever got into in his whole life, became something of a joke to him as the years passed.
    That's not true. It was the most embarassing thing of his life and he never forgot about it. Even when Yang Guo met him near the end of ROCH, he had always believed that he had offended Yideng so badly by diddling his concubine, that Yideng became a monk because of it. He was too humiliated to ever see him or Ying Gu again.

    Zhou Botong actually became martial brothers with Wang Chongyang much in the same way he became brothers with Guo Jing; he cried his way into it.

    Zhou Botong DID care about his martial-disciples; that part the major reason he even was willing to bet with Huang Yaoshi in the first place.

    Now the Old Heretic Huang loved his young wife very much, he wanted to make her happy, so he said to me, 'Botong, this woman does not know martial art at all. She is still young and loves to see amusing thing. What's the problem in letting her take a look? If I, Huang Yaoshi, cast a single glance toward your book, I will immediately gauge my eyeball and give it to you.' Old Heretic Huang is a man who can be ranked among the best in the present age; his words without doubt carry a lot of weight. But to let somebody see the book is a grave matter, so I shook may head. Old Heretic Huang was not happy. He said, 'How can it be that I didn't understand your difficulty? If you agree to let my wife take a look, there will be time when this old Huang repay Quan Zhen Sect's kindness. But if you don't agree, that is entirely up to you. Who said that I have to have your friendship? I don't even know any of your Quan Zhen disciples.' I understood very well his meaning. This man will do what he says. He felt uncomfortable giving me a hard time, but he could make things difficult for Ma Yu, Qiu Chuji and the others. His martial art skill is too high; it was not a good idea to provoke his anger."

    "That's true," said Guo Jing. "Priest Ma, Priest Qiu and the others are not his match."

    Zhou Botong continued, "That time I said to him, 'Old Heretic Huang, if you are angry come and find me, the Old Urchin. Why do you have to look for my martial nephews? Won't that make you 'the big bully the little'?'
    But remember, it wasn't Huang Yaoshi who slew the Quanzhen disciple Tan Chudan, it was Ouyang Feng, unasked for.

    Huang Yaoshi sent out two palm attacks toward Sun Bu'er and Tan Chuduan. They raised their hands to parry, while Liu Chuxuan and Ma Yu came to their rescue. Ouyang Feng let out a long whistle and called out, "Yao Xiong, let me help you." He squatted down and thrust both palms ferociously toward Tan Chuduan's back. Tan Chuduan was using all his power to fight Huang Yaoshi. Suddenly he felt an earth shattering force coming from behind with a lightning speed. Not only his martial brothers and sister did not have time to rescue, he also did not have time to evade. 'Bang!' his whole body was thrown forward.
    Therefore there was no reason for Zhou Botong to have enmity with Huang Yaoshi.
    Last edited by Ren Wo Xing; 06-21-07 at 01:36 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    Zhou Botong actually became martial brothers with Wang Chongyang much in the same way he became brothers with Guo Jing; he cried his way into it.
    So is ZBT a taoist? Or is he more just a martial arts brother of WCY?

    WCY must have been the first Great ZBT was impressed with (or the first one he encountered in life). I imagined if he ever saw the other 4 Greats in action, he probably would have requested them to be his martial arts brother as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren Wo Xing View Post
    But remember, it wasn't Huang Yaoshi who slew the Quanzhen disciple Tan Chudan, it was Ouyang Feng, unasked for.

    Therefore there was no reason for Zhou Botong to have enmity with Huang Yaoshi.
    Ah, ok, thanks for the info. It looks from LOCH82, HYS was the one who killed the third disciple (unless my memory is fading). So in the novel, it was actually OYF? It makes sense now. Thanks once again.

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    What surprises me is how easily and quickly East Heretic Wong Yerk See and the Cheun Jen Sect patched things up after the battle at the Misty Rain Pavilion restaurant. Sure, it was all a misunderstanding...but nothing ever happened after that battle to really clear up all misunderstandings. Whatever reasons that caused the Cheun Jen 6 Disciples to blame Wong Yerk See for the death of Tam Chui Deun were still there as far as the Cheun Jen Sect was concerned (they didn't sit down calmly with Wong Yerk See and compare notes with him as to what *really* happened). Chow Bak Tung was *still* held prisoner by Wong Yerk See on Peach Blossom Island for twenty years. Wong Yerk See still injured Wan Tze Ping rather seriously during the Battle of Misty Rain Pavilion. The Cheun Jen 6 Disciples still insulted Wong Yerk See and his disciples, calling them "demons" and attacking them on various occassions.

    Given the temperaments of both Wong Yerk See and the Cheun Jen Sect Taoists, it's hard to see just how or why they all suddenly buried the hatchet (or iron flute, sword, and Taoist whisk) after the Misty Rain Pavilion encounter, and were all buddy-buddy during the rest of LOCH and ROCH as if the past twenty years hadn't happened.

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    Senior Member duguxiaojing's Avatar
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    Maybe the misunderstanding was over HYS killing GJ's 5 masters and ZBT? But when ZBT shows up later the latter part was cleared up.
    wow..04-08....4 years just like that..time flies..

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    Moderator Ken Cheng's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duguxiaojing View Post
    Maybe the misunderstanding was over HYS killing GJ's 5 masters and ZBT? But when ZBT shows up later the latter part was cleared up.
    That's fine, but it wouldn't have done much to ameliorate the bad blood that had been building between Peach Blossom Island and the Cheun Jen Sect since Wong Yerk See first tried to manipulate Chow Bak Tung into giving him the 9 Yum Jen Ging.

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    Senior Member ChronoReverse's Avatar
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    It's not like they knew that HYS held ZBT for so long. So that wouldn't have been any issue.

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    That's fine, but it wouldn't have done much to ameliorate the bad blood that had been building between Peach Blossom Island and the Cheun Jen Sect since Wong Yerk See first tried to manipulate Chow Bak Tung into giving him the 9 Yum Jen Ging.
    Just to add what Chrono said, the whole misunderstanding was caused by QQZ lying to the QZ masters about HYS killing ZBT and YK claiming that GJ was killed by HYS. They also probally learned about the deaths of GJ's masters later on as well.

    Other than that, HYS knocked out some of YZP's teeth but he spared his life and seemed to somewhat respect him(which is nothing compared to what HYS had done to others who had offended him). When QCJ heard about it he was angry but told the others he had no intention of fighting HYS. Even early in the novel when QCJ and MY were talking they only mentioned something about ZBT being missing. Prior to being lied to by QQZ and YK they had no animosity towards HYS.
    wow..04-08....4 years just like that..time flies..

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Cheng View Post
    Chow Bak Tung couldn't take anything too seriously (and he got worse and worse at it the older he got). Even that whole Ying Goo/South Emperor affair, which was the most serious trouble he ever got into in his whole life, became something of a joke to him as the years passed.
    It wasn't a joke to him. True, at first he treated it as sort of a competition but in ROCH he was really serious about not seeing Duan (YiDeng now) and Ying Gu.
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    ZBT never really stopped feeling guilty over the Emperor Duan / Ying Gu affair. The reunion with them engineered by Yang Guo was a touching scene in ROCH. The three of them ending up living together in ZBT's quiet little valley was a nice touch.

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    Senior Member sixdays's Avatar
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    i think ZBT was one who honored personal relationships over his affiliations. as far as QZ is concerned, i think he holds high respect for it because of what WCY was able to accomplish, and not for the establishment itself. i mean, he'll call the young taoists "bull nose" himself! (bull nose is like a slur against taoists.)

    if anything, i think he'd get along with HYS after the 20 years of imprisonment, because even though he hurled insults at the guy he respected HYS's kungfu and intelligence tremendously.
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    I think ZBT never really cared about the QZ7 or the QZ sect. He was more of a honorary member.

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