Martial art highlights of "A Deadly Secret" aka "Liancheng Jue"

[yittz]

In mandarin it's no. 2 i think.

[PJ]

Is it "Gaosho" or "Gaoshou"?

Gaoshou
.
.
.

[jayjenxi]

You wrote Gaosho that's why I got confused

There's so many variations in the way these terms are translated.

[flyingfox2002]

Since The Heavenly Glow (Shenzhao Jing) has been demonstrated to be able to resurrect people who'd stopped breathing 15 minutes ago (and who were considered dead), I wonder if it could resurrect people who died of a heart stab. Evil #2 and Xiao Feng both committed suicide by stabbing their heart. I wonder if Heavenly Glow can resurrect them back to life within one minute of their death? What do you think?

If we can prove that one's heart must have stopped if he stopped breathing 15 minutes ago, then we can safely assume that Heavenly Glow can resurrect people whose heart already stopped beating.

It seems to me that ShenZhaoGong can only resurrect people who died from asphyxiation. DD was "fanning" oxygen into DY's lungs by massaging his chest when DY came to. I highly doubt the kungfu could repair a punctured heart or any severe injury from sharp objects.

Of course, resurrecting someone after an hour of death is not realistic regardless of the method of death, but if we have to make up a rule in the fictional universe, that's what I'd say.

Wow, you guys are really into the levels of the martial arts.

Somehow, when I read these fights and the description of the skills, I just gloss over them, and skip to the other part of the stories. It's like trying the put structure into something imaginary. It's too difficult.

Hey cool! Me too.

I like JY's novels more for the human element then the kung fu.

[kidd]

Me three. I also did the same. I'm more interested in the plot development and character interaction.

[PJ]

Here is another feat comparison.

In ADS, one of the 4 Marvels - Shivery Moon Swordsman Shui Dai was able to traverse rapidly on mud-like snow, as described below:

水岱手提长剑，吸一口气，展开轻功，便从雪面上滑了过去，只滑出数丈，察
觉脚下并不如何松软，当下奔得更快。这雪谷四周山峰极高，万年不见阳光，谷底
积的虽然是雪，却早已冰雪相混，有如稀泥，从上跃下固是立时没入，以轻功滑行
却不致陷落，水岱轻身功夫甚是了得，在雪面上越滑越快

Compare this with ROCH, when all of the Shi Brothers (other than Shi Shugang) thought it was impossible to traverse on snow-covered mud. Only Yang Guo was able to accomplish it, but even Yang needed to tie a piece of tree branch to his feet. This is a sign that the 4 Marvels (2nd class fighters in ADS) are better than the lower Shi Brothers of ROCH (5th class fighters [?] in ROCH).

[Tom]

This is a sign that the 4 Marvels (2nd class fighters in ADS) are better than the lower Shi Brothers of ROCH (5th class fighters [?] in ROCH).

But this also implies that the 1st class fighters in ADS are not on par with the ones in ROCH.

[PJ]

But this also implies that the 1st class fighters in ADS are not on par with the ones in ROCH.

is that really shocking?

[resident:alien]

Funny how PJ always finds something to do with SWORD GOD ZHUO BUFAN or some feat someone performed. . .at "greats" level.

[Bai Qi44]

Actually, it's written in the novel that Crimson Lord is at the same level as the 4 Marvels. Here's some of the evidence:

血刀老祖一惊：“却从哪里钻出了来这三个高手来？从声音中听来，每一人的武功只怕都不在我之下...”

左首那老者白须如银，相貌俊雅，口口声声呼喝“放下我女儿”，自是水笙的父亲。但见血刀老祖每接一剑，身子 便晃了一晃，似是内力有所不如

血刀僧心下寻思：“适才已见识过水岱和那老道的功夫。一对一相斗，我决计不惧。他二人联手，我便输多赢少， 非逃不可。他三人联手，我是一败涂地，只怕逃也逃不走了。四人联手攻我，血刀老祖死无葬身之地 ！”

血刀僧运劲和刘乘风比拚，内力一层又一层地加强，有如海中波涛，一个浪头打过，又是一个浪头扑上。刘乘风是 太极名家，生平钻研以柔克刚之道，血刀僧内力汹涌而来，他是将内力运成一个个圆圈，将对方源源不绝的攻势消 解了去。他要先立于不败之地，然后再待敌之可胜。血刀僧劲力虽强，内力进攻的方位又是变幻莫测 ，但僵持良久，始终奈何不得敌手。

From the above, we can see that martial arts-wise, Crimson Lord is at the exact same level as the 4 Marvels. Furthermore his internal energy is not as strong as that of "Shivery Moon Swordsman" Shui Dai, and he would also be defeated by Taiji Master Liu Chengfeng in an internal energy contest.

I don't remember much about this story since it's been ages since I've read it. I just remember how impressed I was, the first time I read, it with the blood sabre monk. My favorite part of the story, and most memorable, has always been when the monk plotted and took out all 4 of the Lok Fa Lau Shui. I lol'ed really loud when the monk referred himself to the girl's father (can't remember which Lok Fa Lui Shui) as his son-in-law.

[kyss of the sword]

i can guess that DY's grandmaster's liancheng swordplay should be on the same level as crimson saber elder's skills. since he had an advanced inner power skill to go with it. he taught his three disciples a messed up version with a lot of fake moves mixed in with the real moves and didn't teach them the proper way to use their inner power. they taught their disciples the same way. but they had a bit of reputation so they couldn't be completely useless. in an adaption, the grandmaster fought to a draw with the crimson saber elder, but that was only adaption.

[devilz91]

Actually, the exact quote is this:

但單以武功而論，別說已遠在花鐵幹和血刀老祖之上，比之當年丁典，亦是未遑多讓

In terms of martial arts, he would now be far superior to Hua Tiegan and the Lord of Crimson Sabre. Even when compared to Ding Dian, he would not be far behind.

Nice ranking, PJ. Actually, this quote is changed in the third edition:

但單以武功而論，比之當年丁典，亦已有勝過。只是所習「神照經」僅為深湛內功，外功卻無人指點，除血刀門刀 法之外，拳腳功夫仍極粗淺，但手足靈便，拳理已明，亦已不下與二流好手。

[devilz91]

OK, let me try ranking the characters:

1. Di Yun > Ding Dian

Stated.

2. Shui Dai ≥ Lu Tianshu ≈ Liu Chengfeng ≥ Hua Tiegan ≥ Blood Sabre Elder ≈ Mei Niansheng

The Four Marvels are stated ≥ Blood Sabre Elder. Hua Tiegan admits he is inferior to Shui Dai in lightness arts. When Blood Sabre Elder matched weapons with Shui Dai it was immediately obvious to Di Yun that Shui Dai had slightly better internal, but it took forever before Liu Chengfeng would overcome BSE. Narrator states that Lu Tianshu is the oldest but not necessarily the best, which means he is not definitely the best, but since he is oldest, he's probably better than Hua Tiegan. As for Mei Niansheng, he is probably around the same level as the other five since he was bad enough to get pwned by his disciples.

3. Wang Xiaofeng ≈ Sheng Di > Shan Yong > Bao Xiang

Wang Xiaofeng is stated to have comprehended the true essence of Shui Dai's swordplay, and he also gave some trouble to BSE. He is much above Shui Sheng for sure. As for the other three monks, Ding Dian let Di Yun disguise as him, the most logical thing to do is to ambush the strongest person first, so that's why they are ranked that way.

4. Yan Daping > Wan Zhenshan > Qi Zhangfa

YDP stated to be the best of the three. WZS stated to be better than QZF. These three are weaker than the three monks because their teacher taught them shit while it's a safe assumption BSE taught his disciples correctly. And they seem to be all around the same age.

5. Ling Tuisi > Geng Tianba > Ma Daming > Lu Tong > Shui Sheng

Geng Tianba appears better than Ma Daming based on the fight. Lu Tong is a newbie who could not even struggle himself free against a DG9J-esque Di Yun, but he still seems better than Shui Sheng. Ling Tuisi is the best because he's a ****ing magistrate.

6. Sun Jun > Lu Kun > Wan Gui > Wu Kan ≈ Bu Yuan ≈ Feng Tan ≈ Shen Cheng > Zhou Qi > Qi Fang

Sun Jun stated to be best of the 8. Lu Kun is the eldest so second best seems appropriate. Wan Gui seems to be next best. Wu Kan thinks he may be better than Wan Gui but he's probably full of shit. The rest are about equal. Zhou Qi is worst because he died early. And Qi Fang seems to have stopped practicing since she married, so she takes second last place.

7. Water Spinach

Self-explanatory.

[tweety365]

LOL! devilz, you even included Water Spinach? That is a mighty detailed list. I like your ranking and explanations

[PJ]

devilz: nice additions to the thread.

I'm not sure if Wang Xiaofeng is as good as Bloodie's disciples, but I do think Wang is nowhere near Bloodie's level. Although Wang was able to fend off Bloodie for a while, Jin Yong tells us it's because of a specific technique Wang happens to be using. In terms of real martial arts, Jin Yong tells us that Wang wouldn't last 10 stances against Bloodie.

[devilz91]

I'm not sure if Wang Xiaofeng is as good as Bloodie's disciples, but I do think Wang is nowhere near Bloodie's level. Although Wang was able to fend off Bloodie for a while, Jin Yong tells us it's because of a specific technique Wang happens to be using. In terms of real martial arts, Jin Yong tells us that Wang wouldn't last 10 stances against Bloodie.

That is true, although I'm not sure if his disciples can do much better. It depends how much better you think Di Yun/Ding Dian are vs. BSE, we only know that five of his disciples are enough to take down Ding Dian. Realistically, WXF can be in anywhere from 3. to 5. but I do feel that he's better than Qi Zhangfa and co. who were also stated to be far inferior to the Four Marvels.

[devilz91]

The narrator thinks that the technique of rushing through your own acupoint is beyond Hua Tiegan's capabilities. Does anyone know what is the lowest level of fighter who has accomplished such a task before? (flukes aside)